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Radical Synod Planned for October
Catholic Family News ^ | Went to press for August 25, 2014 | John Vennari

Posted on 07/26/2014 3:26:40 PM PDT by ebb tide

The three most radical proposals are:

1) A new “pastoral solution” to allow divorce and remarried Catholics to receive Holy Communion;

2) A new “pastoral approach” that permits the baptism of children from same-sex couples, thus indirectly legitimizing these unions;

3) A recasting of natural law in “new language”, which threatens to undermine our entire ethical foundation of true morality.

Indeed the Synod’s Working Document further displays the triumph of the New Theology over today’s Vatican; the same new theology that wrought havoc at Vatican II and continues its destructive path to this day.

(Excerpt) Read more at cfnews.org ...


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Current Events
KEYWORDS: adultery; communion; francis; fringe; homos; radtrad

1 posted on 07/26/2014 3:26:40 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: NYer

Ping

Unholy agenda comes to mind. Your thoughts?


2 posted on 07/26/2014 3:28:06 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: ebb tide

Hype. Not going to happen ... Especially with the majority of bishops being appointees of JPII and Benedict XVI.


3 posted on 07/26/2014 3:58:52 PM PDT by CWW (Pray for God's Protection!)
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To: CWW

Are you kidding?

Look at Francis’ Gang o’ Eight. The majority are leftist, socialist wingnuts.


4 posted on 07/26/2014 4:03:57 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: ebb tide

I may be in a small minority but I would like to see baptism available to all. Given RCC faith holds this is a sacrament and thus of considerable value or importance, and given that RCC considers it valid for babies -— given these elements of faith — denying access to a baby because of the sins of its “ parents” cannot, IMHO, be in the best imitation of Christ. Jesus expressed a particular fondness for little children, asking that they be brought to Him.... And without screening them away based on their parents’ morals. ( Just my view. Please don’t bash me about it. I’m too tired to argue today anyway. Thanks !). As far as the overall concern or fears of major doctrinal changes — I understand ( but doubt they will do very much very fast even if they’d like to. But it bears watching, yes...)


5 posted on 07/26/2014 4:43:57 PM PDT by faithhopecharity ((Brilliant, Profound Tag Line Goes Here, just as soon as I can think of one..))
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To: CWW

Second it.


6 posted on 07/26/2014 5:01:52 PM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: faithhopecharity

Plus it will get the parents to REPENTENCE.


7 posted on 07/26/2014 5:04:41 PM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: CWW

Most are from that period in which the bishops are thankfully much, much more conservative.


8 posted on 07/26/2014 5:05:40 PM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: Biggirl

Repentence for the ‘parents’ - I see. Maybe.
One thing I feel very strongly about is that the babies will probably need the Church’s help in growing up right (spiritually, morally, whatever)... at least as much — most likely a lot more — than most other kids ever will ....


9 posted on 07/26/2014 5:09:53 PM PDT by faithhopecharity ((Brilliant, Profound Tag Line Goes Here, just as soon as I can think of one..))
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To: faithhopecharity
Baptism is already open to all. What is going on is that homosexuals who want to change the rules about marriage are using their children to force changes in the overall rules. Don't believe for a second that any motivated single parent in the last three decades — straight or gay — ever really has a problem getting his child baptized. I am such a parent. The ones you read about are the gay couples who arrive at the church arm-in-arm and ask, “Is it a problem that we are lesbians?” They ask this hoping the answer is, “Yes!”
10 posted on 07/26/2014 5:11:55 PM PDT by utahagen
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To: Biggirl
Plus it will get the parents to REPENTENCE.

Absolutely wrong! It will give parents indirect permission to continue their sinful lifestyle.

Why not first demand the parents to stop their filthy sodomy, before they are allowed to have a child baptized and raised in a true Catholic home?

11 posted on 07/26/2014 5:13:35 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: ebb tide

That was what I was trying to say! That the parents NEED to set a GOOD and HOLY EXAMPLE by getting their LIVES RIGHT, through REPENTENCE.


12 posted on 07/26/2014 5:18:01 PM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: faithhopecharity

The Roman Catholic Faith also holds that the Sacrament of Holy Communion is reserved for only those who are in a state of grace.

Why should those who are in a state of mortal sin be allowed to supposedly raise a child in the “Catholic” faith?


13 posted on 07/26/2014 5:21:05 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: Biggirl

Good. Let’s demand the repentance before any baptism.

How’s that sound?

Here’s a small sample of the traditional Catholic baptism:

>>Priest: N., do you renounce Satan?

Sponsor/Catechumen: I do renounce him.

Priest: And all of his works?

Sponsor/Catechumen: I do renounce him.

Priest: And all his pomps?

Sponsor/Catechumen: I do renounce him.<<


14 posted on 07/26/2014 5:29:26 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: All

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/3185212/posts


15 posted on 07/26/2014 5:33:31 PM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: All

Post number 15 could be of good interest.


16 posted on 07/26/2014 5:34:11 PM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: utahagen

Oh I see. thanks for the info...


17 posted on 07/26/2014 5:35:08 PM PDT by faithhopecharity ((Brilliant, Profound Tag Line Goes Here, just as soon as I can think of one..))
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To: ebb tide

Thanks for that perspective.
I was concerned about the baby/child...
not any “rights” one way or the other of the so-called “parents”

I was not thinking about the “parents”

But I do know that this is a knot of a problem, without a clear simple answer. So, mea culpa on that part.

Still and all, the children will (IMHO) need the Church’s guidance and help a lot more (or at least as much, anyway) as kids who have normal parents.... and I just can’t wrap my one remaining tired little gray cell around the idea that the babies should be denied baptism or a Church home.......based solely on what their “parents” are doing with their lives

just my thoughts. I do not claim I have any unique channel to God, just feel this way about the babies is all....thanks for understanding,


18 posted on 07/26/2014 5:39:24 PM PDT by faithhopecharity ((Brilliant, Profound Tag Line Goes Here, just as soon as I can think of one..))
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To: ebb tide

Catechism of the Catholic Church

IV. WHO CAN RECEIVE BAPTISM?

1246 “Every person not yet baptized and only such a person is able to be baptized.”46

V. WHO CAN BAPTIZE?

1256 The ordinary ministers of Baptism are the bishop and priest and, in the Latin Church, also the deacon.57 In case of necessity, anyone, even a non-baptized person, with the required intention, can baptize58 , by using the Trinitarian baptismal formula. The intention required is to will to do what the Church does when she baptizes. The Church finds the reason for this possibility in the universal saving will of God and the necessity of Baptism for salvation.59

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c1a1.htm


19 posted on 07/26/2014 6:00:52 PM PDT by jacknhoo (Luke 12:51. Think ye, that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, no; but separation.)
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To: jacknhoo

You forgot to post this, from the same source:

>>1251 Christian parents will recognize that this practice also accords with their role as nurturers of the life that God has entrusted to them.<<

I find that quite disengious on your part.


20 posted on 07/26/2014 7:00:15 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: faithhopecharity; jacknhoo

Then why not perform secret baptisms upon mass crowds such as baseball stadiums, concert halls, hospital nurseries, etc? Let’s imitate the mormons!

The vehement anti-Catholic, pro-abortion, pro-homo, Abe Foxman was baptized a Catholic. Do you think that has helped or hurt the fate of his eternal soul?


21 posted on 07/26/2014 7:22:02 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: faithhopecharity

If you’re not thinking about the parents, how can you claim to be concerned about the child?

Do you expect a baptized infant to raise himself in the Catholic faith all by his lonesome?


22 posted on 07/26/2014 7:29:22 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: Biggirl

What does Post 15 have to do with unrepentant homos presenting a child for the sacrament of baptism?

They have no intention of raising that child in the Catholic faith.


23 posted on 07/26/2014 7:52:36 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: ebb tide

Better the child be raised in the church than he be excluded from it. The church has many good resources to help children, including schools.

The child of such parents , so called, already has two strikes against it. Denying the child what benefits the church could provide just seems the worst option of all. IMHO. I have no authority and speak for nobody. Just my opinion. Thanks c


24 posted on 07/26/2014 7:59:14 PM PDT by faithhopecharity ((Brilliant, Profound Tag Line Goes Here, just as soon as I can think of one..))
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To: faithhopecharity

Do you not understand that the child will not be raised in the Church?

In the U.S., the Catholic Church has, for the most part, dropped out of the adoption programs because the government is forcing it to give infants to homo couples.

Is it your opinion that to stay in the business, the Church should just baptize every infant in its care, and pass him/her out to the first sodomite couple that comes along?


25 posted on 07/26/2014 8:12:13 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: ebb tide

Respectfully, would it be better to deny the (Innocent) Baby the sacrament of baptism and at least whatever portion or amount of church communion, education, catechism and pastoral guidance may be possible for a child caught in such a situation? IMHO, and it’s only how I feel, no. I believe the child shod be welcomed into the body of Christ and allowed to feel s/he has a real home in the Church


26 posted on 07/26/2014 8:26:48 PM PDT by faithhopecharity ((Brilliant, Profound Tag Line Goes Here, just as soon as I can think of one..))
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To: faithhopecharity
Respectfully, would it be better to deny the (Innocent) Baby the sacrament of baptism

There is no other option, unfortunately, given the circumstances, if the Church is to remain Catholic with respect to such situations. Has to wait until adulthood. Situations like this are a consequence of society abandoning Catholicism and God: increasingly more bizarre and unfortunately "parenting" arrangements are to be expected. There is no way they or the children can immedately be accommodated in the Church.

27 posted on 07/26/2014 8:40:53 PM PDT by steve86 ( Acerbic by nature, not nurture)
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To: faithhopecharity
I believe the child shod be welcomed into the body of Christ and allowed to feel s/he has a real home in the Church.

Homo parents are not allowed to receive Holy Communion; why do you think their child feels he has a "home" in that church? Do you really think the parents will refrain from Holy Communion while the child receives his First Communion?

Do you actually think the homo parents will teach their child that sodomy is a mortal sin and that, they the parents, will go to Hell if they continue in their wicked lifestyle?

28 posted on 07/26/2014 8:45:50 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: faithhopecharity

If, in a local park, a Muslim woman asked you to watch her infant while the mom used the restroom, would you baptize that child?


29 posted on 07/26/2014 8:54:06 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: ebb tide

No, I would not baptize a child behind the parents’ backs...(aalthough I do NOT believe that child has a good future, either). I wish all Muslims would become (genuine) Christians, of course (and not the kind we saw in the 2008 election).

OK, well... we’ve gone aways already from the intent of my original comment, so I will sign off from this one now — but thanks very much. I acknowledge I did (and do) not have all the right answers. Thanks for your ideas!


30 posted on 07/26/2014 9:01:15 PM PDT by faithhopecharity ((Brilliant, Profound Tag Line Goes Here, just as soon as I can think of one..))
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To: ebb tide

Sponsors can’t repent for somebody else.


31 posted on 07/26/2014 9:03:21 PM PDT by UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide (HELL, NO! BE UNGOVERNABLE! --- ISLAM DELENDA EST)
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To: steve86

Understood. I, for one, would welcome the child (since s/he is innocent of its parents’ sins).
Church schools could help such children perhaps even more than kids with healthy parents. The idea of In Loco Parentis has been a major part of traditional education....
at least the kids would be exposed to moral instruction, something they’d not be getting in their peculiarly odd “homes”

anyway, I’ve checked out of this thread, as I had my fair say...and I really don’t have any better answers than the limited thoughts previously submitted. I definitely wish to thank everyone who responded! Thanks! Over and out.


32 posted on 07/26/2014 9:05:09 PM PDT by faithhopecharity ((Brilliant, Profound Tag Line Goes Here, just as soon as I can think of one..))
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To: UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide

Nobody is repenting in the baptismal rite.


33 posted on 07/26/2014 9:05:28 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: ebb tide

Sounds just like the assurances not all that long ago that the Church would approve contraception just like all the non-Catholics had.


34 posted on 07/26/2014 11:54:51 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: ebb tide
1) A new “pastoral solution” to allow divorce and remarried Catholics to receive Holy Communion;

2) A new “pastoral approach” that permits the baptism of children from same-sex couples, thus indirectly legitimizing these unions;

3) A recasting of natural law in “new language”, which threatens to undermine our entire ethical foundation of true morality.

Oh the horror - most people are free to do a reenactment in remembrance of His gift, but some think they can stop the "undesirables by making it a holy rite controlled by priests.

How gauche to allow baptism of innocents children because they, with no control in the matter, are under the care of homosexuals - they obviously need to rot in hell or pay for something they didn't do before being considered. God forbid that baptizing an innocent child can be seen as 'legitimizing" a homosexual relationship.

The word "catholic" (as stated in the Apostle's Creed)means universal or open to all, yet it is the resultant Catholic Church that has so many of the rules one must abide by - the same rules described as sinful and getting people chastised for falling from grace. If folks don't toe the line, then the same church thinks it can deny the ingredients of salvation. Note to Y'All - God makes those decisions and any men who think they have the power or authority to make such decisions are seriously deluded.

35 posted on 07/27/2014 3:17:32 AM PDT by trebb (Where in the the hell has my country gone?)
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To: ebb tide

I’m not quite sure what disingious means, but thanks.


36 posted on 07/27/2014 3:41:22 AM PDT by jacknhoo (Luke 12:51. Think ye, that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, no; but separation.)
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To: ebb tide

I will leave you with this, it is a CALL to REPENTENCE, the movie in question.

Good Bye.


37 posted on 07/27/2014 4:01:22 AM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: ebb tide

Oh brother...unfreakingbelievable.


38 posted on 07/27/2014 4:42:37 AM PDT by jacknhoo (Luke 12:51. Think ye, that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, no; but separation.)
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To: ebb tide

Question: Prior to Vatican II, did the Church baptize babies of unmarried couples presumably living together?


39 posted on 07/27/2014 5:41:38 AM PDT by piusv
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To: ebb tide
It is probably no accident the Working Document contains no references to the Council of Trent, to Pope Leo XIII’s Arcanum and to Pius XI’s Casti Cannubii, all of which repeat the absolute indissolubility of marriage. Are not today’s shepherds ramping up the chaos by refusing to restate these basic truths with all of their consequences? What does this say of our leaders’ quality as shepherds? What does this say of their claim to be truly pastoral?

I'll add another: What does this say about their Catholicity?

40 posted on 07/27/2014 5:48:13 AM PDT by piusv
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To: ebb tide

I believe all your questions, however insincere they are, are answered, on pages 85 to 125, of this most wonderful Free Ebook...download it - it is truly a free treasure.

The Works of Aurelius Augustine ...: A New Translation, Volume 10
By Saint Augustine (Bishop of Hippo.)
http://books.google.com/books?id=z8I4AQAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false


41 posted on 07/27/2014 5:54:13 AM PDT by jacknhoo (Luke 12:51. Think ye, that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, no; but separation.)
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To: jacknhoo

22 Q. Who are the godfathers and godmothers in Baptism?
A. The godfathers and godmothers in Baptism are those persons who, in accordance with the decree of the Church, hold the infants at the font, answer for them, and become guarantees in the sight of God for their Christian education, especially in the absence of the parents.

23 Q. Are we obliged to keep the promises and renunciations made for us by our sponsors?
A. We are certainly obliged to observe the promises and renunciations made for us by our sponsors, because it is only on this condition that God has received us into His grace.

24 Q. What sort of persons should be chosen as godfathers and godmothers?
A. There should be chosen as godfathers and godmothers Catholics of good life, and obedient to the laws of the Church.

25 Q. What are the obligations of godfathers and godmothers?
A. Godfathers and godmothers are bound to see that their spiritual children are instructed in the truths of faith, and live as good Christians and they should edify them by their good example.

>>The above is from the Catechism of St. Pius X. How can you wiggle out of Paragraph 24?<<


42 posted on 07/28/2014 6:36:48 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: ebb tide

You have a very contrary and accusatory attitude. I am not even trying to wiggle out of anything. Please don’t talk to me anymore. I don’t want associate with people like you.


43 posted on 07/29/2014 1:55:53 AM PDT by jacknhoo (Luke 12:51. Think ye, that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, no; but separation.)
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