Posted on 07/31/2014 9:01:53 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
The Book of Abraham Papyri and Joseph Smith
by Matt Slick
There are many proofs that Joseph Smith was a false prophet, but Mormons typically will not accept them. From the biblical evidence that contradicts Mormon theology to the contradictions within its own history and doctrine, proofs abound. But Mormons, completely dedicated to their religion and their testimony, cannot and will not see the evidence. They rely not on biblical evidence--not on historical evidence but rather trust a 'testimony' that Mormonism is the restored church and Joseph Smith its true prophet.
One of the tests of whether or not a belief is grounded in reality is whether or not it can be proven to be true or false. If someone says, "I don't care what evidence you show me, I will always believe," then that person's faith is not rooted in reality. And since Christianity is a religion of history, crucifixion, resurrection, an empty tomb, etc., it is a religion rooted in reality. If it could be proven beyond doubt that Jesus did not rise from the dead, then Christianity is a false religion. Likewise, if it could be proven that Joseph Smith was a false prophet, then Mormonism is a false religion. It just so happens that there is such a proof.
The Book of Abraham
Joseph Smith claimed that an angel appeared to him and revealed the location of some golden plates on which was written the account of the ancient people of the Americas. Joseph Smith later translated those plates into what is now known as the Book of Mormon. This translation was done by the power of God through special means. Joseph Smith, being the Lord's chosen instrument, became the prophet of the Mormon church and held the office of Seer. A Seer, according to the Book of Mormon in Mosiah 8:13, can translate records that are untranslatable. Hence, Joseph Smith was able to translate the golden plates into the Book of Mormon. But his Seer abilities did not stop there.
In July of 1835, an Irishman named Michael Chandler brought an exhibit of four Egyptian mummies and papyri to Kirtland, Ohio--then the home of the Mormons. The papyri contained Egyptian hieroglyphics. In 1835 hieroglyphics were unreadable.
Thanks for the link! That movie is highly recommended.
As it would turn out I do know something about Egyptology. That “Book of Abraham” is not what Joe Smith says it is. I’m not Dr. Bob Brier http://drbobbrier.com/ and I can tell you this.
From the REAL papyrus of Abraham ...Verses 1-5
http://www.bookofabraham.com/boamathie/BOA_6.html
(I/1) [”Osiris, the god’s father], prophet of Amon-Re, King of the Gods, prophet of Min who slaughters his enemies, prophet of Khonsu, the [one who exercises] authority in Thebes,
(I/2) [. . .] . . . Hor, the justified, son of the similarly titled overseer of secrets and purifier of the god, Osorwer, the justified, born by the [housewife and sistrum-player of ]
(I/3) [Amon]-Re, Taikhibit, the justified! May your ba-spirit live among them, and may you be buried on the west [of Thebes].”
(I/4) [”O Anubis(?),51 . . .] justification(?).
(I/5) [May you give to him] a good and splendid burial on the west of Thebes as on the mountains of Ma[nu](?).”
[Osiris shall be towed in]to the great lake of Khonsu,
and likewise [the Osiris Hor, the justified,] born of Taikhibit, the justified,
after his two arms have been [placed] at his heart, while
the Breathing Document, being what
is written on its interior and exterior, shall be wrapped in royal linen and placed (under) his left arm in the midst of his heart. The remainder of his
wrapping shall be made over it. As for the one for whom this book is made,
he thus breathes like the ba-spirit[s] of the gods, forever and ever.
I take it this is not an LDS caucus thread.
Thanks. I will check it out.
Not even close! lol
Oh please, what about requiring proof He rise from the dead in the first place? The Bible is one of the most contested, edited, politically fought-over books in human history - as are claims of Jesus's teachings and even existence.
Ultimately religion is based on faith and spiritual experience, not "proof," which is always ever anything but. Denying that reality about Christianity while requiring "proof" from Mormonism or any other faith is sheer hypocrisy. And really, why do it at all? If someone's faith brings them peace and closeness to God, as long as it doesn't involve killing or persecuting those who disagree with them, leave them alone. Isn't life hard enough without having to damn everyone who doesn't think the same? I get so sick of this crap.
And this is a perfect example, because the very Protestants who believe Mormons aren't Christians also believe Catholics aren't Christians either - and Catholics believe the same thing about Protestants and Mormons. So in that case, why worry about Mormons not being real Christians of you also feel the same way about the entire other half of the acknowledged Christian world?
Bah.
Correction: The Bible is one of the most fought-over books in human history, and the subject of much misinformation. Actually, we have more than 5000 manuscripts in the Greek language for the NT, with a 99.5 similarity, and that's not including the many ancient translations we have in Latin, Syriac, and other languages.
Ignorant atheists often like to believe that the scripture is the subject of much "editing" and trouble, but it is not so when you examine the actual evidence.
As for "proof" in the first place, all of the Apostles died for their belief, as did many others. Ignatius, a disciple of the Apostle John, was eaten by lions. Polycarp, a contemporary and another disciple of John, was also martyred horribly, and yet did not recant. Certainly the testimony of witnesses is a great proof indeed.
Ultimately religion is based on faith and spiritual experience, not "proof,"
This is true to a certain extent, but if there is evidence that utterly says the contrary, then that settles things. Ultimately, faith must have reason too, otherwise you get Mormonism.
And really, why do it at all?
You do not sound like a Christian, so it is probably impossible for you to understand the desire of Christians for the lost to be found.
Isn't life hard enough without having to damn everyone who doesn't think the same? I get so sick of this crap.
Then don't read the thread or these posts.
And this is a perfect example, because the very Protestants who believe Mormons aren't Christians also believe Catholics aren't Christians either
Probably would be wise for you not to put words into peoples mouths.
Bah.
Bah to you too.
You’re not the first skeptic to pursue this line of reasoning without investigation. Leo Strobel, a Jew, and a liberal journalist from San Francisco, set out to prove just how silly this Christianity stuff is. He used his investigative training to explore the facts. You should read his book, The Case for Christ. See where it takes you.
You do not know much about either the Bible or the Nazarene. You apparently haven’t bothered to read any of the numerous books out there that have been written about the evidence available to prove the resurrection
You deny my faith in Christ and then tell me not to put words in others mouths in order to avoid my point?
I wish I could say I found your kind of Christianity rare, but I can't. As for me, I consider Christ as the only way to reach God, and Jesus as a genuine full incarnation of Christ.
So obviously, I'm not a Christian, because first of all that's not nearly enough to qualify, and second of all, I haven't received your certification on the relationship between my heart, mind and soul and the living, eternal God.
But look at the bright side - without your certification I am sure to burn in hell for all eternity in screaming torment, so you've got that going for you. After all, can any less be expected for those who differ from your beliefs in even the slightest bit? I think not.
LOL, so I'm a liberal Jew? Or am I a sceptic? See my post #16 for my declaration of faith. You'll no doubt find it inadequate, and I'll find your judgment amusing. So it's win-win.
That's not all I don't know about - I'll bet you anything I know less about more things than you do. About Jesus, I pretty much summed myself up in post #16 above. Try not to laugh when you read it, as it is so lacking in learning.
You are a believer and yet deny the authenticity and reliability of the Holy Scripture, amongst other things? That doesn't make any sense.
As for me, I consider Christ as the only way to reach God, and Jesus as a genuine full incarnation of Christ.
Christ only means "anointed." Christ is entirely God, not an "incarnation" of a New-Agey Christ, as that sounds like what you are saying. There is no such thing as a "full incarnation of anointed." This concept does not exist in the scripture.
After all, can any less be expected for those who differ from your beliefs in even the slightest bit?
Everybody always says that. Mormons say it and yet they are polytheists who believe they will become gods of their own planet, deny the existence of hell, and instead replace it with an "outer darkness" which may only be temporary, and 2 lower heavens where most everyone goes to regardless of what they believed, and this, despite what the scripture teaches:
Joh_3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
'Very little" from the Christian viewpoint would be, for example, the difference between the infant baptism of the Presbyterians and the baptism of the Baptists, which neither believe saves or damns anyone, as it is a question of mere practice and has strong arguments on both sides.
"Very little" from the New-Agey or cultist viewpoint is usually like the difference between planet Earth and the Mormon planet Kolob where "god," who is a man of flesh and blood who was once a good Mormon on another planet, lives and reigns.
It's easy to say it's very little when you're living in a strange and irrational world, but not for those of us who are normal.
Well, as cults go, it’s a pretty functional and loving one, not like those, such as Islam which kill people and such. Just thinking
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