Skip to comments.Pope Francis And Ecumenicide
Posted on 08/02/2014 12:23:09 PM PDT by ebb tide
Ecumenicide - any dialogue between Catholics and those of other faiths in which Catholics participate without the express purpose of converting those of other faiths to the Roman Catholic Church, that is, the One True Church.
I cannot claim credit for coining that term. I saw that on the facebook wall of Pat Archibald, one of the bloggers of Creative Minority Report. It is a brilliant term and it is an accurate description of what politically correct Catholics do when they "dialog" with no intent of bringing others home to Rome.
Here is a curious and telling post from Rorate Caeli. CMR commented on it too. It seems that some Italian Pentecostals and Evangelicals held a round-table discussion on July 19th as they discussed "contemporary Catholicism". In their statement, they list key differences between them and us; I urge you to read it. While they obviously fail to accept that the errors behind the differences lie squarely on their shoulders, at least they acknowledge the significance of the differences and that these differences render impossible any real "ecumenical opening" with the Church. On that score they understand that error needs to be addressed first before any talk of unity can occur, for unity must be based on the whole truth.
This past Monday the Pope went to Caserta and visited several Italian Pentecostals. He made the statement that "the Holy Spirit is the source of diversity in the Church. This diversity is very rich and beautiful. But then the same Holy Spirit creates unity. And in this way the Church is one in diversity. To use a beautiful Gospel phrase that I love very much, reconciled diversity is the gift of the Holy Spirit." Forgive me, but who can make sense out of this glop? We're talking about breaks in the Body of Christ, breaks occurring due to heresy and dissidence from the One True Church. That is not "rich and beautiful". And as far as that "gospel phrase" goes, can anyone cite chapter-and-verse the phrase "reconciled diversity"? I've read through the Bible several times and have never come across that one.
Here are some more relevant details. Apparently the local bishop of Caserta was never advised of the pope's visit to his diocese. The Holy Father also scheduled his visit on the Feast of St Anne, a saint held in high honor in that town. Why would it have taken much persuasion to convince the Holy Father to celebrate a Mass in honor of the grandmother of Our Lord? Considering both these facts, we see here on the part of the pope an apparent downplaying of the Catholic church in that town.
Most distressing, especially from the Chief Shepherd of the Church, is this statement: "Im not interested in converting Evangelicals to Catholicism. There are so many doctrines we will never agree on. Lets be about showing the love of Jesus. If he, the Successor of Peter is not interested in conversions to Catholicism, he is not showing any "love of Jesus", but rather a feel-good, shallow counterfeit of the same. Our Lord's commission to his Apostles was to baptize the nations and to "teach them all that I have commanded you". He does them, and all the world, a gross disservice to dismiss Catholic truth as "doctrines we'll never agree on". One of the Spiritual Works of Mercy is to "instruct the ignorant". Did that happen? All indications point to "no".
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is ECUMENICIDE.
Catholics are going to have a very hard time “converting” those who have received the Holy Spirit as they are unlikely to engage in the bizarre pagan practices inherent in Catholicism.
“the Holy Spirit is the source of diversity in the Church. This diversity is very rich and beautiful. But then the same Holy Spirit creates unity. And in this way the Church is one in diversity. To use a beautiful Gospel phrase that I love very much, reconciled diversity is the gift of the Holy Spirit.”
Frank said that????
Next thing you know Protestants will be welcomed at Catholic Communion!
No worries, Doc. If the good Catholics could convert the blood-thirsty Aztecs, they can convert anyone.
I can not believe they are wanting converting to being Catholic instead of being followers of Christ. They are very odd. No where in the Bible does it say accept the pope to get to heaven. Leading people astray.
Well, so much for live and let live.
And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
True, they made Mexico about 99% Catholic and everything south of the American border Catholic, and even required by law in many of the nations there.
In fact the biggest Catholic nations in the world are just south of the united States.
In the Religion forum, on a thread titled Pope Francis And Ecumenicide, Dr. Thorne wrote:
Catholics are going to have a very hard time converting those who have received the Holy Spirit as they are unlikely to engage in the bizarre pagan practices inherent in Catholicism.
...the ebb and tide of CONSTANT criticism...
Catholics follow Christ and the Bible. Probably a lot more closely that most non-Catholics.
John_14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
John_14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Have you seen Francis’ Little Book of Insults?
“Specialist of the Logos!”
“Self-absorbed, Promethean neo-Pelagian!”
“Mr and Mrs Whiner!”
“Slaves of superficiality!”
“Long-faced, mournful funeral Christian!”
“Querulous and disillusioned pessimist!”
“Pickled pepper-faced Christian!”
“Children! Afraid to dance! To cry! Afraid of everything!”
“Asker for certainty in all things!”
“Christians allergic to preaching!”
“Closed, sad, trapped Christian who is not a free Christian!”
“Creed-reciting, parrot Christian!”
“Watered-down faith, weak-hoped Christian!”
“Seminarians who grit their teeth and wait to finish,
follow rules and smile [who] reveal the hypocrisy of clericalism - one of the worst evils!”
“Smarmy, idolator priest!”
“Worshiper of the god Narcissus!”
“Religious who have a heart as sour as vinegar!”
“Promoter of the poison of immanence!”
Those closed in the formality of a prayer that is cold, stingy [who]
might end up as Michal, in the sterility of her formality.
“Older people nostalgic for structures and customs which are no longer life-giving in todays world!”
“Young people addicted to fashion!”
“Luscious cakes, sweet dainties. Delectable, but not real Christians!”
“Christian hypocrites only interested in their formalities!”
They disguise themselves, they disguise themselves as good people: they make themselves up like little holy cards, looking up at heaven as they pray, making sure they are seenthey believe they are more righteous than others, they despise others!”
Mah, they say, Im very Catholic, because my uncle was a great benefactor, my family is this, Im that Ive learned... I know this bishop, this Cardinal, this priest... I am this or that... They think they are better than others. This is hypocrisy!”
“Sloth-diseased, acedic Christians!”
I think of many Christians, of many Catholics: yes, they are Catholics, but without enthusiasm, even embittered!”
“They are people without light real downers!”
“And how many Christians are like this? he asked, selfish, out for themselves.
Christians who do not leave space for the grace of God and the Christian life, the life of these people, consists in having all the paperwork, all the certificates, in order!
“The theologian satisfied that his thought is complete and conclusive is mediocre.
The theologian who does not pray and does not adore God ends up drowning in
the most disgusting narcissism.
This is an ecclesiastical sickness.
The narcissism of theologians and thinkers does such harm; its disgusting.
Your institutions are not machines for producing theologians and philosophers.
“There are Christian bats who prefer the shadows to the light of the presence of the Lord!
“Starched Christians, too polite, who speak of theology calmly over tea!”
We have heard of so many good Catholics, good Christians, friends and benefactors of the Church that it has been revealed - acted for personal profit. They presented themselves as benefactors of the Church and made money on the side
And in the Church there are climbers, people driven by ambition! There are many of them! But if you like climbing go to the mountains and climb them: it is healthier! Do not come to Church to climb!
A simple numerary in this sect!
>>Not one of the above criticisms is directed towards Jews, Muslims, Protestants, Evangelicals or atheisists. They are all directed towards the Pope’s fellow Catholics. I think he is more anti-Catholic than some Protestants are.<<
It’s “ebb and flow”.
Stop making things up.
Nah...all I see is your constant parade of negativity and criticism as I read through the headlines. I honestly feel some compassion for you ...as that must be a horrendous weight to carry around. It reminds me a little of this movie scene(except that the guy carrying this weight had confessed and made reparation):
(...and he was eventually healed.)
Aw....c’mon...just a little play on words. ;-)
Wow...that weight is much larger than I realized. ;-o
I omitted his more vulgar criticisms.
There’s always hope, ebb tide. There is ALWAYS hope.
There are those who hate what they think Catholicism is, and there are those who know what Catholicism is but continue to spit and hiss and lie because living a lie is easier than admitting that they have been wrong.
Mk. 9:38+ John said to him, Teacher, we saw a man casting out demons in your name, and we forbade him, because he was not following us. But Jesus said, Do not forbid him; for no one who does a mighty work in my name will be able soon after to speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is for us. For truly, I say to you, whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because you bear the name of Christ, will by no means lose his reward.”
Nowhere in the Bible is there a statement that implies that the Bible is the SOLE rule of faith, or that ALL Christian doctrine is contained in the Bible.
Regardless, the office of the pope, or the vice-regent of the House of David, is mentioned in the Old Testament, and fulfilled in the New Testament.
Isaiah 22In the passage from Isaiah, we see that in the king's absence, the vice-regent, or prime minister, was given full plenary authority. This authority was signified by a sash and an over-sized key, which the vice-regent wore around his neck.
19 And I will thrust thee from thine office; and from thy station shalt thou be pulled down.
20 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will call my servant Eliakim the son of Hilkiah:
21 and I will cloth him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand; and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.
22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; and he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.
23 And I will fasten him as a nail in a sure place; and he shall be for a throne of glory to his father's house.
I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth and none shall shut, and that shutteth and none openeth:
Jesus is the King of the Eternal House of David, as we see in Rev. 3:7, and we see Him give the keys of the Kingdom to Peter in Matthew 16:19, representing the office of the vice-regent of the eternal House of David. The term "pope" is simply a transliteration of the Greek term, "pappas." The Pope is the successor in office of Peter, or the Vicar (representative) of Christ on earth.
At this point, it seems more likely they'll convert him.
Faith, Hope and Charity.
If only this Pope had the charity to share the One, True Faith rather than affirm others in their errors.
Uh oh...you’ve lapsed back into negativity again. Did you watch that movie clip?
No, that is heresy.
Who demands full access to communion with Catholics?
Could you, on this thread, give us some examples of Christian Doctrine that is not contained in the Bible?
If there is too much, could you please list 10 or twenty examples and show why they are Christian Doctrine?
Thank you very much.
What he is referring to is the heavy-handed proselytism that happens when non-Catholics try to persuade a Catholic.
Catholics will always invite (plant a seed) and let God do the rest.
He isn’t saying for us to “bug out” on evangelization. He’s saying “dig in” by contacting and inviting and letting God do the rest.
We will always welcome you back. Find a priest that you can sit down with and get your questions answered. It’s that simple.
And remember you are always a Catholic once baptized a Catholic. You just might be a lapsed/inactive one at this moment.
You won’t have to worry about that from my circles.
Sorry about that for you will always be a Catholic, although a lapsed one.
He’s not saying that at all. He is promoting religious indifferentism.
But the death of the soul is worse than freedom of error, as Augustine was wont to say.” - Pope Gregory XVI, Mirari Vos
To which you replied:
"What he is referring to is the heavy-handed proselytism that happens when non-Catholics try to persuade a Catholic."You can read the pope's mind??
What a horrible way to express himself if you are right.
Having been involved in evangelism as a non-Catholic for decades (sometimes to unsaved Catholics), I must say I have never done or seen a scenario such as which you described.
I really doubt the pope is that coarse.
I'm not so sure they need to.
**You can read the pope’s mind??**
I’ve experienced it. Even after I told the people that I was a Catholic, they continued with what I discerned as pressure-laden phrases. I finally had to walk away.
The canon of Scripture is the prime example.
The number and nature of the Sacraments is another. For example, the necessity of Baptism and the validity of infant Baptism.
Keep in mind that this category can be divided into varying degrees of Scriptural implicitness (See "Bible at Core of Catholic Beliefs"). So, for example, most Christians believe in the Trinity, but the doctrine of the Trinity isn't spelled out explicitly in Scripture. And at one time, the teaching was widely disputed among Christians.
Similarly, many Protestants don't believe that Scripture supports the doctrines of Jesus' real presence in the Eucharist, or that the Bishop of Rome holds an office, greater than that of the other bishops (See tagline).
But Catholics believe that Scripture does in fact support these doctrines, and we can be sure of this knowledge because we can be sure of the Church's teaching authority (See "Proving Inspiration" for the reasons for trusting in the Church's teaching authority.)
I made a mistake in the copied quote here. Please ignore it.
I was speaking to what I have experienced by those who proselytize rather than evangelize — invite.