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Why the Mars Hill Faithful Have Started to Question Mark
The Stranger ^ | August 1, 2014 | Brendan Kiley

Posted on 08/02/2014 12:42:22 PM PDT by Cecily

To understand the current unrest at Mars Hill Church, you have to go back to 2007. In the autumn of that year, Mars Hill was an emerging evangelical powerhouse, attracting national attention for its combination of ultraconservative theology and rock ’n’ roll posturing. It had grown over the previous decade from a Bible group in pastor Mark Driscoll’s living room to a multi-campus institution drawing 4,000 attendees to services every week. Paul Petry, Mars Hill’s pastor of families and member care at the time, says that roughly 1,600 of those 4,000 people had joined the church as full-fledged members—they’d taken the necessary Mars Hill classes, studied Driscoll’s doctrine (which he eventually codified in his 2010 book Doctrine), and signed an agreement to submit to the “authority” of Mars Hill leadership.

(Excerpt) Read more at thestranger.com ...


TOPICS: Current Events; Evangelical Christian; General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: markdriscoll; marshillchurch; paulpetry; seattle

1 posted on 08/02/2014 12:42:22 PM PDT by Cecily
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To: Cecily

Smells like scientology.......(holding nose)


2 posted on 08/02/2014 12:44:17 PM PDT by Hostage (ARTICLE V)
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To: Cecily

From the stories coming out now, it sounds like Driscoll is a wanna-be cult leader who enjoys exercising an iron grip on his congregation.

That is not what Christ had in mind for the Church.


3 posted on 08/02/2014 12:44:47 PM PDT by hoagy62 ("Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered..."-Thomas Paine. 1776)
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To: hoagy62

The “Iron Grip” is His, not his. I am thankful for it!


4 posted on 08/02/2014 12:49:12 PM PDT by wastoute (Government cannot redistribute wealth. Government can only redistribute poverty.)
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To: Morgana

bump


5 posted on 08/02/2014 12:51:30 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: Cecily

Maur Hill = Catholic High School in Kansas


6 posted on 08/02/2014 1:03:11 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; cardinal4; ColdOne; ...

The Jonestown Death Tape (FBI No. Q 042) (November 18, 1978)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkookcrAnSE


7 posted on 08/02/2014 1:19:16 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Cecily
Sounds like a Nicolaitan to me...

Nico-, combinatory form of nīko, "victory" in Greek, and laos means people, or more specifically, the laity; hence, the word may be taken to mean "lay conquerors" or "conquerors of the lay people". However, "Nicolaitan" (Greek: Νικολαϊτῶν; Νικολαΐτης) is the name ostensibly given to followers of the heretic Nicolas (Greek: Νικόλαος)—the name itself meaning "victorious over people," or "victory of the people," which he would have been given at birth.
8 posted on 08/02/2014 1:24:05 PM PDT by Jan_Sobieski (Sanctification)
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To: hoagy62

I don’t know what other stories their are, but would be interested to read them. I wouldn’t put do much in an article from The Stranger, the free, ultra-liberal paper that can be found at coffee shops in Fremont and Hooka Bars in Seattle.

But yes, there is the risk with a non-demoninational church being led astray by their pastor.


9 posted on 08/02/2014 1:26:31 PM PDT by 21twelve (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2185147/posts 2013 is 1933 REBORN)
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To: Cecily
I have known many godly pastors who work very hard to serve God and minister to their congregations. unfortunately, there are some pastors like Driscoll who believe that God rubber stamps their every decision and whim. Disagreeing with this mentality results in such ministers claiming that you are opposing God's will.
10 posted on 08/02/2014 1:31:43 PM PDT by Nevadan
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To: Cecily

I am an evangelical Christian who has been in professional church ministry (I am no longer) and learned from many of the contemporary big successful and some failed leaders as well as just the everyday followers of Christ. Bottomline: they are, we are all human and fall short of the glory of God.

I’ve noticed numerous articles written by evangelical Christians bashing Mark Driscoll, his ministry, his people - God’s church. So far I haven’t read or heard from any leader I respect in the “business” bash him.

There’s plenty of scripture that should guide leaders and church members in behavior and problem resolution. And, most importantly, God’s Word is there for us to read, prayerfully discern what Christ wants us to do in our own lives. If there’s failure, let’s look to ourselves first.

It took awhile, but I learned that in every church, every church leadership situation, there’s room for big problems. Gee whiz, there’s a crapton of stuff I need to attend to with Christ first, before I beat up on my church leadership.

I wish we would stop beating up on the church - God’s church, BTW - and those leaders trying to keep the church going - particularly in these days.


11 posted on 08/02/2014 2:18:24 PM PDT by freeagle
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To: freeagle

I just read a bunch of the articles; and FB page about Driscoll and Mars Hill.
It sounds like they have gotten way of base and turned into a cult.
I a in a church where Driscolls material was read by many in leadership roles. That gives me a huge pause; and really is an eye opener.


12 posted on 08/02/2014 2:53:34 PM PDT by HereInTheHeartland (Obama lied; our healthcare died.)
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To: Cecily
I walk by the Bellevue church almost every day.

I thought it was kind of cool that a large Evangelical style church suddenly appeared in ultra liberal downtown Bellevue a couple years ago.

I had no clue there was a civil war going on inside until I read an article at a local TV news website a few weeks ago.

13 posted on 08/02/2014 2:59:29 PM PDT by zeestephen
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To: Cecily

Pastor Mark Driscoll seems to be another “Dr. EEEEeugen Scott, that is, a fraud and a blasphemer.


14 posted on 08/02/2014 3:18:12 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: Cecily
This is what happens when people submit to other people in this fashion. This was a train wreck waiting to happen. Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. That is the nature of man-Christian or otherwise.

Pro 30:8-9 Remove far from me falsehood and lying; give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with the food that is needful for me, lest I be full and deny you and say, "Who is the LORD?" or lest I be poor and steal and profane the name of my God.

15 posted on 08/02/2014 5:22:18 PM PDT by HarleyD ("... letters are weighty, but his .. presence is weak, and his speech of no account.")
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To: HarleyD

Is Paul Petrie the one from Lexington Kentucky and a member
of the Covenant Church (Mobile Alabama)?


16 posted on 08/02/2014 5:34:14 PM PDT by noah (noah)
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To: noah
I don't think so. I don't follow Mars Hill except for the few things I've read about it. It isn't my cup of tea. I don't believe in churches that make you sign statements of loyalty or pay for pastors that make far more than I. So this dissention is the first I've heard but I'm not surprised.

Here is an interesting site that talks more about this The Wartburg Watch 2014. In the article he does complain that John Piper and C.J. Mahaney refused to get involved in the matter. He was a bit harsh but in fairness to Piper and Mahaney, this is an internal church matter that needs to be dealt with by the congregation-not outsiders.

17 posted on 08/02/2014 5:52:32 PM PDT by HarleyD ("... letters are weighty, but his .. presence is weak, and his speech of no account.")
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To: Cecily

They’re just starting to question him now? Kinda slow if you ask me. Shoulda questioned him years ago.


18 posted on 08/02/2014 5:55:22 PM PDT by Abigail Adams
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To: freeagle

2 Peter 2

The Rise of False Prophets

1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. 2 Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned; 3 and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.


19 posted on 08/02/2014 6:00:34 PM PDT by Abigail Adams
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To: Abigail Adams

I’m not saying there isn’t anything amiss with Driscoll because I don’t know. I don’t attend his church. I’ve never read or listened to his works... what I’m saying is

1) I don’t know - it’s not my church, and those who are chiming in don’t attend it either.
2) All churches have problems and the Bible specifically addresses them. It’s up to any church body and community to apply Scripture.
3) We should be making sure that individually we seek Christ first and make sure we’re trusting Him to take care of other peoples’ churches.
4) We have got to stop tearing one another down.
5) There are tons of people in Driscoll’s church and tons of people who read/view his stuff, plus tons of Evangelical leaders who can come along side Mark Driscoll. Maybe they have and they are constructively dealing with him.

I read that Bill Hybells (whom I respect), wouldn’t let just ONE of Driscoll’s works be distributed at a conference. I’m postive a lot of evangelicals will take issue with Bill’s objections to Driscoll’s view of not allowing women in leadership roles. But Hybell’s hasn’t said anything else.

If individuals in or outside of Driscoll’s church are concerned, they might be cautious about reading Driscoll’s stuff, and seek counsel from trusted advisors. If they have their own church community and read their Bible, they should do the same. We should focus on becoming Christlike; the Sanctification process.

We really shouldn’t have time to judge and tear down God’s leaders and His church. That’s God’s job if he sees fit.


20 posted on 08/02/2014 6:28:12 PM PDT by freeagle
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To: Cecily

Driscoll continued: “Johnny is now so terrified of women and his own penis that he sits in his room alone each night on the internet hoping to get some… because he’s so afraid of women and has no idea how to take one, or love one, or serve one, or take one to bed and make the Song of Songs sing again. One day Johnny finally gives in to the pressure of his pre-humpers singles ministry and gets stuck with some gal left on the shelf long after her expiration date… And so the culture and families and churches sprint to hell because the men aren’t doing the job and the feminists continue their rant that it’s all our fault and we should just let them be pastors and heads of homes and run the show.


I don`t know about the rest of it but I agree with the above, kids don`t know if they are supposed to be boys or girls.


21 posted on 08/02/2014 7:58:04 PM PDT by ravenwolf (s)
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To: Cecily
From the article:
After the dustup, Driscoll canceled the entire congregation’s memberships and told them they had to reapply with a special addendum specifically agreeing to the new bylaws he was proposing.

From Justin Taylor's blog:

So, when our attendance was at about six thousand people a few years ago, we did something unprecedented. We canceled out the membership of everyone in our church and I preached the Doctrine series for thirteen weeks. Each sermon was well over an hour and included me answering text-messaged questions from our people.

Those who made it through the entire series were interviewed, and those who evidenced true faith in Christ and signed our membership covenant were installed as new members. We had always had a high bar for membership, but I wanted to raise that bar higher as we pursued our goal of becoming, by God’s grace, a church of fifty thousand. In so doing, we lost about a thousand people, dropped to five thousand total, and missed budget for the first time in our church’s history.

--An Interview with Mark Driscoll on Doctrine

If you go there, you'll note comments are gone. Shock over the mass membership cancellation came to dominate the comment list. I still have most of them in my gmail account, because I'd commented and had responses emailed to me.

I remember thinking at the time, what a strange thing that was to do, as if you get a divorce from your spouse for a week to decide if you want to continue being married.

This is an interview with Driscoll, and puts his spin on it. The Stranger article, if true, puts it into context with some behind the scenes political stuff, at the same time as Dricoll's "pile of dead bodies behind the Mars Hill bus" comment. (The sound clip for that, BTW, is not difficult to find. Here, for one.)

Which is true?

With what kind of ecclesiology can leadership cancel everyone's membership en-masse, and fire elders? Answer, a top down, personality dominated CEO model ecclesiology. Driscoll's not as "Reformed" as people might think he is.

22 posted on 08/03/2014 5:46:31 AM PDT by Lee N. Field ("And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise" Gal 3:29)
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To: Cecily

Pastor Spends $200,000 of Church’s Money to Buy His Own Book to Make it a New York Times Best Seller
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nb-gZ3bcBZs


23 posted on 08/03/2014 8:18:47 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (Pubbies = national collectivists; Dems = international collectivists; We need a second party!)
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To: freeagle; Cecily; Abigail Adams
We really shouldn’t have time to judge and tear down God’s leaders and His church. That’s God’s job if he sees fit.

Are you sure you haven't erected a straw man here? "We" aren't tearing down God's leaders and church, are we? We're reading about a case where the congregants and some elders are disputing and confronting their own church.

Are you suggesting that this shouldn't even be a subject of discussion amongst we Christians? But church disputes have always been just that--the Bible is full of them, among the apostles no less. They function for God's purpose as cautionary tales.

I identify with them personally, because I've been through this, although on a much smaller scale. As a church elder I was forced to confront our pastor over his imperiousness; eventually the necessary strength of my confrontation mandated my resignation to avoid both the appearance and the temptation of becoming overbearing myself.

While I appreciate your call to personal sanctification (first getting our own log out, etc.), I applaud those congregants, the article's author, and the poster. It appears they are, indeed, humbly doing God's work of ecclesiastical sanctification.

24 posted on 08/03/2014 10:13:53 AM PDT by Hebrews 11:6 (Do you REALLY believe that (1) God IS, and (2) God IS GOOD?)
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To: freeagle

Well, I think the point of the passage I posted is “false teachers” do not equal “God’s leaders.” They are false, and therefore we should point them out as such and warn people about them.

I think Christians need to do due diligence in researching leaders and authors, because there is so much deception out there these days masquerading as “Christian.”

For example, you might want to do some reading up on Bill Hybels. Some info here (click on “older articles” to read more): http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/?s=bill+hybels&search=Search


25 posted on 08/03/2014 10:34:03 AM PDT by Abigail Adams
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To: Lee N. Field
With what kind of ecclesiology can leadership cancel everyone's membership en-masse, and fire elders? Answer, a top down, personality dominated CEO model ecclesiology.

And therefore certainly not a Biblical ecclesiology. Perhaps Driscoll can cite book, chapter, and verse where the New Testament even mentions "church membership."

Of course, this is always a hazard whenever people are "in charge."

26 posted on 08/03/2014 12:52:20 PM PDT by Hebrews 11:6 (Do you REALLY believe that (1) God IS, and (2) God IS GOOD?)
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To: Cecily
Now new documents have been unearthed from 2000, when the church opened up a we'll-take-all-questions message board and Driscoll published some vicious rants under the macho pseudonym William Wallace II/>a?

This particular post shows him unfit for any leadership role whatsoever and in need of repentance and reconciliation.

27 posted on 08/03/2014 2:34:00 PM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began)
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To: Cecily

Thanks for contributing this important article!


28 posted on 08/03/2014 6:10:34 PM PDT by Hebrews 11:6 (Do you REALLY believe that (1) God IS, and (2) God IS GOOD?)
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To: Abigail Adams
Thanks for the link. I hadn't known about Hybel's wife and her heavy involvement in the pro-Palestinian/anti-Israel movement. It seems like there is an absolute juggernaut occurring right now against Israel and justifying or ignoring terrorism by Muslim groups. It is disgusting that some of it has the support of evangelical churches. There was a comment by someone posting on a Breitbart article I found from the link that I find to be unfortunately true: “As I see it, with a few notable exceptions, Mega-Church pastors veer hard left first chance they get. If you remember, back in 2005 the Mega-Churchers were proclaiming this message to Evangelicals: “Jesus is not happy with how political His Church has become.” in demand that churchgoers back out of involvement in conservative politics. Then the Mega-Church leaders pivoted, and started stumping for left wing causes. This is a classic left wing tactic: co-opt the Church. See “The German Church vs. the Confessing Church” in the Nazi era to observe a clear example of how the left interacts with Christianity. Or you can read the book “Bonhoffer”.,”
29 posted on 08/05/2014 7:13:50 AM PDT by Nevadan
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To: Nevadan

More worrisome is Hybels’/Willow Creek’s promotion of contemplative spirituality, and the emerging church movement, not to mention the whole seeker sensitive thing. You can read more here:

http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/willowcreek.htm

If you are in ministry, you will want to read up on the contemplative and emerging church movements, in order to protect your flock from deception. It’s everywhere now! God bless!


30 posted on 08/07/2014 12:06:45 PM PDT by Abigail Adams
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To: Abigail Adams

re: If you are in ministry, you will want to read up on the contemplative and emerging church movements, in order to protect your flock from deception. It’s everywhere now!

I know. It is absolutely amazing to me how many sincere Christians are spending more time listening to the thoughts that run through their minds, attributing to them the “voice of God”, than actually reading and applying the actual Word of God that He gave to us in His Book.

I teach Bible study in a denomination that has had a strong tradition of Bible study. In recent years, however, I have been noticing more and more things in the Sunday School curriculum that smack of contemplative spirituality.


31 posted on 08/07/2014 12:43:23 PM PDT by Nevadan
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