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A Catholic's view: Pope Francis, the ecclesiastical version of Barack Obama
Examiner.com ^ | July 31, 2014 | Timothy Whiteman

Posted on 08/02/2014 4:22:03 PM PDT by ebb tide

The empty cassock...

As a struggling Christian who recognizes the Holy Roman Church, I'm of the opinion that the pontificate of Pope Francis is an absolute and utter disaster.

(Excerpt) Read more at examiner.com ...


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic
KEYWORDS: francis; obama; popefrancis
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1 posted on 08/02/2014 4:22:04 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: SumProVita

Ping


2 posted on 08/02/2014 4:22:33 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: ebb tide

great article, thanks for posting.


3 posted on 08/02/2014 4:25:58 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: ebb tide

New American Standard Bible
“Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),
Matthew 24:15


4 posted on 08/02/2014 4:28:21 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
In fairness to your anti-Christ Pope, that scripture is in reference to the Roman legions that surrounded and destroyed Jerusalem.

Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

They are called the "abomination of desolation" in the parallel passages because they were heathens and idolaters, also carrying the images of their gods upon their standards as they marched to destroy Jerusalem.

5 posted on 08/02/2014 4:34:46 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

Jerusalem is the city where the people of God reside, i.e. the Church.
the only “holy place” after Jesus went to the cross is the Church.
Jesus is warning that near the end of the world, Satan will be loosed for a short while, evil will multiple, there will be a great falling away from the Church such that Jesus asked whether He would still find faith on the earth when He returned and finally Satan will sit in the holy place, that is he will rule the Church. everything is playing out exactly as the Scriptures tell us they will.


6 posted on 08/02/2014 4:42:50 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: ebb tide

Oh wow....I see that you are on a critical roll of negativity.

(That weight you drag is growing....)

;-o


7 posted on 08/02/2014 4:47:43 PM PDT by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo....Sum Pro Vita - Modified Descartes)
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To: SumProVita
Oh wow....I see that you are on a critical roll of negativity.

I haven't been following the exchange closely, do you have an actual argument against what ebb tide has been posting? I really would like to see it. I'm not trying to put you on the spot, I sympathize with your position but I just can't defend it with any sense of coherence yet.

8 posted on 08/02/2014 4:55:41 PM PDT by Legatus (Either way, we're screwed.)
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

The “church” did NOT replace the nation of Israel. As God promised the Israelites are being brought back to their promised land. The armed nations around Israel is just now starting.


9 posted on 08/02/2014 4:56:33 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: ebb tide
The empty cassock...

Yup.

10 posted on 08/02/2014 4:59:12 PM PDT by piusv
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To: Legatus

Actually, I am just sad and concerned to see someone put so much effort into a CONSTANT stream of criticism. It can be very harmful spiritually.

My positions are already known to ebb tide.


11 posted on 08/02/2014 5:02:12 PM PDT by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo....Sum Pro Vita - Modified Descartes)
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To: CynicalBear

we agree! the Church DID NOT REPLACE Israel! The Church IS Israel. Just a name change.

Paul’s letter to the Ephesians is helpful in understanding this point. 2:12 states the Gentiles were once separated from the COMMONWEALTH OF ISRAEL, but v19 says they are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God.
the chapter is clear, the believing Gentiles are now citizens of the commonwealth of ISRAEL.
remember, the true Jew is one inwardly, not of circumcision, right??


12 posted on 08/02/2014 5:06:16 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

Tom Whiteman is not even a Catholic according to his little bio on that site.


13 posted on 08/02/2014 5:13:54 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

These literal interpretations only serve to emphasize the utter bankruptcy of any reside of intellectual thinking on the part of Scripturalists without any reference to holy tradition, revelation, and scripture. The Bible did not fall from the skies. Its book were authenticated by the early Church fathers


14 posted on 08/02/2014 5:15:01 PM PDT by Steelfish (ui)
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To: Salvation

his article is spot on, whether he is Catholic or not. he observes that the post Vatican II Church ruptured from 2,000 years of Church history, who can argue with that?

I hope everyone with spiritual eyes can see the great apostasy unfolding before our eyes!

to the believer it is a time of great tribulation, but at the same time seeing the Scriptures coming true helps to solidify our faith and makes up pray even harder for friends and relatives.


15 posted on 08/02/2014 5:22:52 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: Steelfish

huh? forgive me, but I have no idea what your post is saying. can you translate it for me?


16 posted on 08/02/2014 5:24:49 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: ebb tide
While I'm dismayed at how Pope Francis has managed to get his foot firmly in his mouth with some of his public utterances, I think it's too early to judge his Pontificate. He may indeed turn out to be a disaster, but let's not rush to judgment. And do remember that he needs all our prayers. He has a tough job to do.
17 posted on 08/02/2014 5:24:51 PM PDT by JoeFromSidney (Book: Resistance to Tyranny. Buy from Amazon.)
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To: ebb tide

Well at least there is one Catholic who gets it. Sadly many do not.


18 posted on 08/02/2014 5:25:04 PM PDT by HarleyD ("... letters are weighty, but his .. presence is weak, and his speech of no account.")
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To: SumProVita; Legatus

The only position of yours that I know is your animosity towards me. You don’t critique the articles I post; you just attack me.


19 posted on 08/02/2014 5:28:13 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: JoeFromSidney

here’s how I am going to judge his Pontificate:

does he declare to a lost world that Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the life and no one comes to the Father except thru Him?

have you heard him say that? have you heard any post Vatican II Pope say that?

not only don’t I hear him say that, I hear him say things like wishing the Muslims a holy Ramadan and an easy fast!!


20 posted on 08/02/2014 5:32:55 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
Jerusalem is the city where the people of God reside, i.e. the Church.

Jerusalem here is the object of God's wrath. It cannot, therefore, be defined as the Church:

"That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate." (Mat 23:35-38)

21 posted on 08/02/2014 5:36:41 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: ebb tide

No, I am not attacking. I am simply concerned about you and your continual need to attack Pope Francis.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/desales/devout_life.v.viii.html


22 posted on 08/02/2014 5:38:17 PM PDT by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo....Sum Pro Vita - Modified Descartes)
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To: Salvation

Neither Tony Palmer nor Kenneth Copeland are Catholics, yet the Pope begs to preach in Evangelical churches with the promise that he has no intent to convert their members to Catholicism.


23 posted on 08/02/2014 5:39:18 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: piusv

Looks like he has a pretty full cassock. From what I understand it has gotten fuller still since he was elected.


24 posted on 08/02/2014 5:40:37 PM PDT by Wyrd bi ful ard (Asperges me, Domine, hyssopo et mundabor, Lavabis me, et super nivem dealbabor.)
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To: SumProVita

Attacks?

You don’t even address the articles. Do you even read them? I don’t think you do, otherwise you’d be attacking the author, not me.

I also recommend you address you concerns towards the Pope, rather than myself.


25 posted on 08/02/2014 5:47:54 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: ebb tide

Ever hear of evangelization?


26 posted on 08/02/2014 5:51:00 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: SumProVita
It figures you would post a link to a funky ecumenical website.

Ecumenicity—The CCEL strives to expose readers to a variety of Christian perspectives.

And I had always thought you were a Catholic.

27 posted on 08/02/2014 5:53:11 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

No, the church is NOT Israel. Israel is the wife of the Father. The “church” is the bride of Christ. God promised the Israelites that He will gather them back to their land He gave them which He is now doing.


28 posted on 08/02/2014 5:54:13 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

the true Jerusalem is above and it is free. it is where Jesus Christ rules and we who are in Him are seated with Him in heavenly places.

in a sense the Church at the end does come under the wrath of God apostasy losing its first love.

God is not concerned about a city in the middle east called Jerusalem, once the temple veil was torn, it was a sign that Jesus Christ Himself is the temple, we who are in Christ are part of that holy temple as Paul explains in Ephesians 2:11-22.


29 posted on 08/02/2014 5:54:38 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: ebb tide

Oh my goodness...we’ve been through all of this before. It’s pretty much useless to repeat it continually. I am concerned for you as you seem to be obsessed with finding fault and that is spiritually dangerous for anyone who seriously seeks the heart and mind of God.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/desales/devout_life.v.xxviii.html

A small excerpt: “Of a truth, hasty judgments are most displeasing to God, and men’s judgments are hasty, because we are not judges one of another, and by judging we usurp our Lord’s own office. Man’s judgment is hasty, because the chief malice of sin lies in the intention and counsel of the heart, which is shrouded in darkness to us. Moreover, man’s judgments are hasty, because each one has enough to do in judging himself, without undertaking to judge his neighbour.” St. Francis de Sales

Also...from the Sacred Scriptures:

“Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.” (Philippians 4:8)


30 posted on 08/02/2014 5:59:21 PM PDT by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo....Sum Pro Vita - Modified Descartes)
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To: Salvation
Yes, and it's no different than proselytism, which the Pope calls “solemn nonsense”.

For somebody with a dislocated wrist, you are quite loquacious tonight.

31 posted on 08/02/2014 6:01:23 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: CynicalBear

so if I am a Jewish believer, who am I the wife of, the Father or Jesus?


32 posted on 08/02/2014 6:01:35 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: ebb tide

I am most definitely a Catholic and those words are from St. Francis de Sales...not from the website owner.


33 posted on 08/02/2014 6:02:14 PM PDT by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo....Sum Pro Vita - Modified Descartes)
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To: SumProVita

Once again, address the article before you launch into me.

You really need to read what you just posted to me and examine your own conscience.


34 posted on 08/02/2014 6:03:16 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: ebb tide

However, just in case you really are that paranoid, here is another source of the great Saint’s work.

http://jesus-passion.com/Saint_Francis_de_Sales_Contents.htm


35 posted on 08/02/2014 6:04:43 PM PDT by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo....Sum Pro Vita - Modified Descartes)
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To: SumProVita
I am most definitely a Catholic...

You don't act like one.

36 posted on 08/02/2014 6:05:52 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: ebb tide

Look UP, ebb tide, and and seek the excellence of virtue:

http://jesus-passion.com/PART_V_SAINT_FRANCIS_DE_SALES.htm#CHAPTER%20XI.


37 posted on 08/02/2014 6:08:15 PM PDT by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo....Sum Pro Vita - Modified Descartes)
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To: ebb tide

Once again, I ma not “launching into” you. I am encouraging you to look UP rather than DOWN...and seek holiness and virtue.


38 posted on 08/02/2014 6:10:50 PM PDT by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo....Sum Pro Vita - Modified Descartes)
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To: ebb tide

Very different from proselytism.


39 posted on 08/02/2014 6:16:18 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation
What do you call this:

Pope Leo addressed this letter not just to the Catholics of England, but to the English people, and he makes a call for unity clear:

With loving heart, then, we turn to you all in Eng­land to whatever community or institution you may belong, desiring to recall you to this holy unity.

Is the above beneath Pope Francis' ecumaniaism?

How can you ignore the fact that the Pope has said, on two separate occasions, that he has no intent to convert anyone?

40 posted on 08/02/2014 6:24:50 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: SumProVita; ebb tide
I am encouraging you to look UP rather than DOWN

I understand what you're saying but seeking holiness does not preclude sounding the alarm... if there's something about which we should really be worried. So far the "stay the course" team hasn't been able to make an actual case.

My tagline for years was "Keep Calm and Carry On" but I can't defend that approach anymore, I'd love to be able to but I can't. Help me out here.

41 posted on 08/02/2014 6:26:43 PM PDT by Legatus (Either way, we're screwed.)
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To: SumProVita

You have now made eight posts on this thread; non directed towards the article posted.

Are you proud of yourself?


42 posted on 08/02/2014 6:27:58 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism; KC_Lion
God is not concerned about a city in the middle east called Jerusalem

Hoo boy!

43 posted on 08/02/2014 7:00:18 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Throne and Altar! [In Jerusalem!!!])
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To: Zionist Conspirator

God is very concerned with the city of Jerusalem and its inhabitants.

God loves us all.


44 posted on 08/02/2014 7:02:41 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: ebb tide

Are you basing your opinion on what Francis has said, or on the often inaccurate msm?

And a lot of his opinions on the economy is based on corruption in countries like Argentina, not on how the less corrupt “Asian tiger” states showed how capitalism works for the honest.

wait til he attends the upcoming conference on families before you throw in the towel.


45 posted on 08/02/2014 7:36:55 PM PDT by LadyDoc (liberals only love politically correct poor people)
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

Try reading evangelii gaudium.

He stresses the need for every Christian to have a personal relationship with Jesus.


46 posted on 08/02/2014 7:45:16 PM PDT by LadyDoc (liberals only love politically correct poor people)
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To: LadyDoc

“He stresses the need for every Christian to have a personal relationship with Jesus”

if they are Christian, they have a personal relationship with Jesus. where does he say the Muslim needs a personal relationship with Jesus? or the Hindu? or Jew? or atheist? or agnostic? that’s my point! St Paul traveled the known world declaring Jesus Christ to Jew and Greek alike, because he was concerned for their souls.

this Popes attitude seems to be its fine for Christians to believe in Jesus, after all, he claims to be a believer. but it is fine for the Muslim to reject Jesus and as long as they are a “good” Muslim, they will make it to heaven.
that is not Christianity.


47 posted on 08/02/2014 7:52:46 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: LadyDoc

Are you speaking to me or the author of the article?

As far as the upcoming Synod on Families, why are you looking forward to the proposal to give Holy Communion to non-repentent adulterers? That doesn’t sound too “family friendly”.


48 posted on 08/02/2014 8:04:22 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: Salvation; Zionist Conspirator

Hebrews 12:22-24 “ but you have come to Mt Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of the first born who are enrolled in heaven, and to a judge who is God of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks more graciously than the blood of Abel”.

this heavenly Jerusalem is what concerns God. may we all be residents of this city of the living God.


49 posted on 08/02/2014 8:15:42 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: ebb tide

How many articles have you posted this week...all critical of clergy?

And then there’s your problem with practicing what you preach. Example:

***Good for you. I’m surprised it took you so long.

Slow reader?***

Night night...


50 posted on 08/02/2014 8:16:24 PM PDT by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo....Sum Pro Vita - Modified Descartes)
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