Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Reaping the Whirlwind File: Another awful story shows the dark side of IVF and Surrogate Motherhood
Archdiocese of Washington ^ | 8/3/2014 | Msgr. Charles Pope

Posted on 08/04/2014 2:12:23 AM PDT by markomalley

Jesus said, “What God has joined together, let no one divide.” But this is exactly what we have done in our divisive and reductionist time. We have done so not only with marriage but with sexuality and the procreation and raising of children. God has joined together, sex, marriage and procreation. But we have separated and isolated them:

  1. Regarding sex we have said that this is no necessary connection between sex and procreation – and we have done this the contraceptive mentality.
  2. Regarding Marriage we have said there is no necessary connection between getting married and having children and we have done this throughout he widespread use of contraception and now by embracing the notion of same-sex unions.
  3. Regarding children we have even said that there is no necessary connection between having children and having sex. And we have done this by in vitro fertilization, surrogate motherhood and the like.

We have separated and isolated things which God has joined together. Sex marriage and procreation are meant to be together and each exists for and on behalf of the others. We have sown the wind and are reaping the whirlwind. For:

  1. If it is widely held that sex is just about pleasure or “showing love” and has nothing to do with procreation then for many it no longer makes sense any longer to restrict it to Holy Matrimony, or even to heterosexuals for that matter.
  2. If it is widely held that having children is not an essential work of marriage and that marriage is just about two adults being happy, then for many, restricting marriage to heterosexuals no longer makes sense.
  3. If it is widely held that conceiving a child is no longer necessarily linked to the marriage act, then it no longer makes sense to many that conceiving children in test tubes, borrowing sperm or eggs, or renting a womb (or any combination of same) is strange and problematic.

In separating what God has joined we have become lost in a strange world where life is both hated (via contraception and abortion) and were life has been turned into a commercial product up for sale (via in vitro etc). Indeed we have come upon the era of designer babies, we are already into the first stages of cloning, gene splicing and heather having three or more parents. We are heading for the hatchery and not far from the Novels 1984, and Brave New World.

And very few today bat an eye at the prospect. Very few have considered the darkness of turning human life into a designer product up for sale: an egg from here, a sperm from there, rent a womb over there; couple strands of DNA here and some more from there: Heather has six “parents” and a 7th “mother” in the womb that was rented to gestate her.

Even fewer seem to care that it is children who going to be born into this utter chaos and who are having a social experiment foisted upon them, with they themselves as the guinea pigs.  No, who cares about them, haven’t you gotten the memo that this world is all about adults and what they want? Marriage isn’t about what is best for children, its about adults and their feelings and what they want. Sex isn’t about children either, its about what adults want to do. And even having children isn’t about children. Its about what adults want, in the way they want it. Yes even having children is about adults. And heaven protect the child who has a disability, 80 – 90 % of simply aborted. Heaven protect the excess “embryos” (i.e. children), from in vitro fertilization, who don’t get selected for implantation by the doctor, into the freezer or worse with them. And if you don’t think sex selection hasn’t been going on for a long time in the designer baby world, wake up. Heaven protect the infant who is the wrong sex.

Dark (not brave) new world. And here follows an excerpt from an article which describes another dark side of the designer baby world:

A Thai woman who carried a baby with Down’s syndrome as a surrogate mother has vowed to take care of the boy after his natural parents gave him up….

The Australian couple left Gammy, now six months old, with Pattaramon Chanbua but took his healthy twin sister. Gammy has a congenital heart condition, a lung infection and Down’s and is in a Thai hospital for urgent treatment. God is watching. Can you imagine appearing before the Judgment Seat of Christ with this on your record? Lets hope they repent.  

A campaign to help the baby begun online after Thai newspaper Thairath published Gammy’s story last week. It has raised more than $150,000 ($140,000; £83,000) from 3,400 donors in 11 days. Ok, nice but how about a campaign to end the practice of surrogacy? Can’t folk sees that hideous outcomes like this are going to be frequent when people turn human life into a product to be bought and sold, and seek designer babies, and to throw away imperfect products and “misprints?”   

In Australia, Prime Minister Tony Abbott expressed his sadness: “I guess it illustrates some of the pitfalls involved in this particular business.” Really, is the best outrage Mr. Balir can muster? “Pitfall” ??  “Business” ??

Ms Pattaramon was paid $15,000 (£9,000) to be a surrogate for the couple, whose identities remain unknown. She was told of the child’s condition four months after becoming pregnant, prompting the couple to ask her to have an abortion. She refused, saying it was against her Buddhist beliefs. Great couple huh? Also, too bad the woman’s Buddhist beliefs didn’t prevent her from renting her womb for 15K.  (Full article is here: Surrogate Mother Cares for Disabled Child Rejected by Biological “Parents”)  

So, the darkness continues to grow, and as it gets darker it gets colder; in this case a lot colder. In a secular age, some like to boast there is no God. But the problem is if there is no God and everyone is god. Stories like this reminded us that if we want to play God, are going to do a lousy job of it.

The atheists and secularist may think of our God, the God of the Bible in poor terms, but at least in God’s world there is room for imperfection and mercy. Story’s like the one above remind us that in this dark (not brave) new world where man becomes god, there is increasingly no room for imperfect children, and no mercy for them either. Designer life, up for sale, is not just a bad idea, it is a dangerous and heartless one, and it increasingly amounts to a genocide against the disabled who bring us gifts, whether we want to admit it or not. 

Where have these heartless, merciless notions come from? Pride? Sure, because we want to be gods who design and toy with life and reserve the right to kill what we have made. Lust? Yes indeed, because we want “sex” without cost or responsibility. Anger? Yes again, for we increasingly kill what does not please us. Sloth? That too, for most are too busy to care about the is “arcane” stuff and consign the matter to the “none of my business as long as no one gets hurt” file. Well a lot have been hurt and killed and lot more are going on death row might soon.

We have sown the wind, and now we are reaping the whirlwind. It began with a great divorce wherein we separated what God has joined. Sex, marriage and having children are meant to be together. We have separated and isolated them and thus we sowed the wind. And then came the whirlwind of abortion, promiscuity, AIDS, STDs, teenage pregnancy, divorce, cohabitation, single motherhood, homosexual confusion, and the entire meltdown of the meaning of marriage and human sexuality. In the end it is the children who suffer, it is always the children.

Call the Church out of touch, call us old fashioned, but don’t call us inconsistent. We are just as opposed to abortion and contraception (which wants sex without procreation), as we are opposed to IVF and surrogate motherhood, cloning (and every other dark art on the way) that wants children without sex or marriage. I guess we’re just strange that way. We really think that sex and marriage and having children ought to go together. It’s what God set forth, its what’s best for children, and we ought not separate what God has joined.


TOPICS: Catholic
KEYWORDS: msgrcharlespope; prolife
Very few have considered the darkness of turning human life into a designer product up for sale: an egg from here, a sperm from there, rent a womb over there; couple strands of DNA here and some more from there: Heather has six “parents” and a 7th “mother” in the womb that was rented to gestate her.

Who needs the 7th "mother"? Behold, the artificial womb (from the Annals of the New York Academy of Science)

1 posted on 08/04/2014 2:12:24 AM PDT by markomalley
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: markomalley

My beautiful triplet nieces turn 24 next month. They were conceived via IVF, one of modern medicine’s true miracles. Perhaps you can come over to their birthday party and tell them how awful it is that they walk the earth.


2 posted on 08/04/2014 2:30:48 AM PDT by jalisco555 ("My 80% friend is not my 20% enemy" - Ronald Reagan)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: jalisco555

My IVF-conceived twin boys would have a blast at your nieces’ party! :)

My husband’s and my twins are healthy, happy, well-behaved, homeschooled, learning to think for themselves, and — I hope — future conservatives. I don’t think we have too much to apologize for.


3 posted on 08/04/2014 2:34:33 AM PDT by Hetty_Fauxvert (FUBO, and the useful idiots you rode in on!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Hetty_Fauxvert

The joy that my nieces have brought to the lives of everyone around them, particularly my brother and sister-in-law, is incalculable. I’m sure the same is true of your twins. As for the girls’ politics, though, I’m not sure they really have any. But they’re young.


4 posted on 08/04/2014 2:38:13 AM PDT by jalisco555 ("My 80% friend is not my 20% enemy" - Ronald Reagan)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: AllAmericanGirl44; Biggirl; Carpe Cerevisi; ConorMacNessa; Faith65; GreyFriar; Heart-Rest; ...

Msgr Pope ping


5 posted on 08/04/2014 3:04:25 AM PDT by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good -- Leo XIII)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: jalisco555; Hetty_Fauxvert

Three questions just for curiosity sake:

How many of the mother’s eggs were fertilized?

What happened to the blastocysts that were not implanted?

Are there plans to implant the remaining blastocysts?


6 posted on 08/04/2014 3:11:05 AM PDT by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good -- Leo XIII)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: markomalley

No idea. I’m their uncle, not their father. All I know is that these girls wouldn’t exist if it weren’t for this technology.


7 posted on 08/04/2014 3:40:38 AM PDT by jalisco555 ("My 80% friend is not my 20% enemy" - Ronald Reagan)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: markomalley
In separating what God has joined we have become lost in a strange world where life is both hated (via contraception and abortion) and where life has been turned into a commercial product up for sale ...

I have observed before that this is a society in which a person will do absolutely anything, including kill, to avoid having a baby ... right up to the moment the same person will do anything, including kill, to have a baby.

8 posted on 08/04/2014 3:41:44 AM PDT by Tax-chick (No power in the 'verse can stop me.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: jalisco555

Catholics aren’t against all fertility treatments — only those that involve the destruction of embryos, obtaining genetic material through means that go against Catholic teaching, and/or “selective reduction”. The latter is a “polite” way of saying abortion. Many times, more than one embryo is implanted and many don’t survive or are culled if found to have abnormalities. I am not sure how anyone can call any of the practices above harmless or OK. The means do not justify the ends.


9 posted on 08/04/2014 4:02:27 AM PDT by grimalkin (We are a nation under God. If we ever forget this, we are a nation gone under. -Ronald Reagan)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Tax-chick
Because it is all about them. Once they realize the kid isn't just a new toy and the pain of raising him becomes apparent that child is in for a lot of emotional neglect.

Raising kids requires sacrifice and that isn't Mr and Mrs Instant Gratification's thing.

10 posted on 08/04/2014 4:09:19 AM PDT by hopespringseternal
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: hopespringseternal

I think that the ideology of “choice” is very dangerous when it applies to children. It renders every life contingent, in a way, even after they’re born. “If you hadn’t chosen to have that baby, then ... blah blah blah,” as if you’re expected to go back in time and “un-choose” his life.

It’s creepy and scary.


11 posted on 08/04/2014 4:13:13 AM PDT by Tax-chick (No power in the 'verse can stop me.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: jalisco555; Hetty_Fauxvert

Do either of you think the God who turned His own crucifixion into salvation for the world couldn’t bring beautiful new souls into the world through IVF?

The blessings gained from the act notwithstanding, the act was immoral to begin with.


12 posted on 08/04/2014 4:34:05 AM PDT by Claud
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: grimalkin

Even if no embryos are destroyed, IVF is intrinsically immoral because you have to commit a mortal sin to obtain the seed.

Doctors should be doing everything they can to help couples conceive naturally instead of sticking their pipettes in the middle.


13 posted on 08/04/2014 4:38:21 AM PDT by Claud
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: jalisco555; markomalley
An uncalled-for statement. Nobody thinks it is awful that these little children "walk the earth." We think it is awful that their siblings remain in cryo-suspension (they're frozen --- I've heard them called "kid-cicles") or they were destroyed, plain-out exterminated like an infestation of maggots; we think it is awful they are the bought-and-paid-for product of a fertility lab which would have culled them if they manifested an unmarketable defect.

Even if their parents have the best will in the world for them, they turned them into commodities by the way they were conceived.

Nobody on this forum has yet willed total machine-based "hatchery" gestation; and yet many have willed every single incremental step that will lead up to this horrific conclusion.

14 posted on 08/04/2014 4:59:06 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("God bless the child who's got his own." Arthur Herzog Jr. / Billie Holiday)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Mrs. Don-o

I can’t think of anything more intrinsically pro-life than the fact that these girls, and their future children, grandchildren etc. are among us. And they are anything but commodities.


15 posted on 08/04/2014 5:11:42 AM PDT by jalisco555 ("My 80% friend is not my 20% enemy" - Ronald Reagan)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: markomalley; Tax-chick; GregB; Berlin_Freeper; SumProVita; narses; bboop; SevenofNine; ...
While the couple admitted they had a baby girl about the same age as baby Gammy and that they had used a surrogate, they say she did not have a twin brother.

Australian couple claim they are not the parents of baby Gammy — born to a Thai surrogate

Ping!

16 posted on 08/04/2014 5:32:21 AM PDT by NYer ("You are a puff of smoke that appears briefly and then disappears." James 4:14)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: markomalley

**Even fewer seem to care that it is children who going to be born into this utter chaos and who are having a social experiment foisted upon them, with they themselves as the guinea pigs. No, who cares about them, haven’t you gotten the memo that this world is all about adults and what they want?**

Only what the parents want — no consideration for the children.


17 posted on 08/04/2014 6:36:04 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Hetty_Fauxvert

Except that they will never know their real biological father.


18 posted on 08/04/2014 6:38:54 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Tax-chick

Very well put.


19 posted on 08/04/2014 6:40:13 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: jalisco555

**and their future children, grandchildren etc. are among us**

They say that this is where the problems show up.


20 posted on 08/04/2014 6:42:01 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: jalisco555

Don’t bother arguing with the righteous fruitcakes on this site. Waste of time. I too have friends and family who’ve had success with IVF. But yes, I’m sure god is setting aside a place for them in the lake of fire...(s)


21 posted on 08/04/2014 6:48:53 AM PDT by strider44
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: jalisco555

My nephew wouldn’t exist if it weren’t for rape.

Jus’ sayin’ ...


22 posted on 08/04/2014 6:50:02 AM PDT by NorthMountain
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: markomalley

Have MERCY on us God!


23 posted on 08/04/2014 7:48:00 AM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: strider44
You don't think that God can bring good out of evil? He does it all the time.

And nobody is consigning anybody to the lake of fire . . . that's God's job. I believe that in the current climate, where doctors and the press and even most ministers seem to think that it's perfectly o.k. to use IVF and selectively abort the multiple implanted babies, there may not be deliberate sin involved in many instances (just as many young women are reassured, pressured or threatened into abortions by their boyfriends and even their parents).

But nevertheless, treating children as commodities up for sale (and of course available to destroy - like the little ones that are "sacrificed" in the process) is evil, and it leads to evil. Aside from the horror of this Australian couple tossing aside a baby because they didn't get "the benefit of their bargain", you also have the very real problem of children not knowing who their parents are - aside from the medical issues, we are already seeing incest problems with sperm banks that relied on a few prolific donors - half-siblings inadvertently marrying and/or having babies.

It's not something that should be encouraged, even if God blesses the innocent little children who are its results.

24 posted on 08/04/2014 7:52:55 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ecce Crucem Domini, fugite partes adversae. Vicit Leo de Tribu Iuda, Radix David, Alleluia!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Hetty_Fauxvert; jalisco555; markomalley
Hetty, this one's for you, too: #14.

I unreservedly wish the best for you and your children.God bless you, and may they thrive in your love and care.

It's not a question of whether the children are good. The children are good, period --- whether or not they are smart, cute, funny, or future conservatives. A child is good per se, no matter what the circumstances of his begetting and birthing.

But the separate and distinct thing we want to consider, is whether the way in which he was conceived is good.

Because --- as you and I know, as everybody knows --- there are regrettable ways that a child can be conceived, and we can find some of those ways morally objectionable, even if we would find the child a sheer delight.

Children are conceived by silly drunk foolin' around by college students, by prostitution, by reproductive concubinage (surrogacy), by rape, by artificial insemination of single women and lesbians, in acts of anger, in acts of greed, in acts of sexual jihad, in acts of marital deception, in laboratory procedures linked to commercial transactions.

About that last one: is it not true that the IVF lab/clinic would consider it their "ethical" responsibility to discard any human zygote they found to be affectd by some sort of defect, before implantation?

And is it not true that IVF produces offspring which are regarded by law as property rather than as persons? (If you have any doubts, take a good hard look at "Davis vs Davis" Maryville TN embryo case LINK)

Is it not true that, as a result, human embryos can legally be bought, sold, bequeathed to somebody as part of an estate, manipulated with intentionally lethal results, given away, regarded as a tortuous offense in a wrongful birth case, stored like a dubious package at the back of the freezer, or discarded?

We can affirm the God-Blessed existence of the child, without approving of the way he was conceived. "Reproductive circumstances" and "valuing the child" are two separate issues.

Everyone can sincerely wish IVF parents and their children well, without thinking the laboratory concoction and/or commercial reproduction of children is a good thing .

25 posted on 08/04/2014 7:54:29 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("God bless the child who's got his own." Arthur Herzog Jr. / Billie Holiday)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Mrs. Don-o

Well stated Mrs. Don-o. I have to wonder, where is the option of adoption? So many children in need, so many left to fall into the hands of so few to care for them.


26 posted on 08/04/2014 9:22:45 AM PDT by AllAmericanGirl44
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: AllAmericanGirl44
I think real adoption, genuine God-pleasing adoption, is centered around the needs of a needy child: a child who, through some sad or tragic circumstances, needs a mother and a father, and a couple steps forward to meet that child's need.

There's a less-noble template for adoption out there, though: an adoption centered on the wants of the adult(s), (single or couple), who want a particular type of child, typically a perfect newborn blue-eyed blonde from a healthy mother.

That's the "gold standard" of the adoption market: there's no shortage of couples who want to adopt a perfect newborn blue-eyed blonde from a healthy mother.

There's a huge shortage of adults who want to adopt kids who have disabilities or defects, who are older than infant, who are the "wrong" color or mix of colors, who had a sick (or drunk or addicted) mother, and/or who come with siblings that the agencies don't want to break up.

This doesn't apply to everyone, of course, but one reason IVF may be strongly preferred by some people, rather than adoption, is because IVF is less of a toss of the dice in terms of genetic uniformity, product quality-control and parental satisfaction.

27 posted on 08/04/2014 10:09:08 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (May the Lord bless you and keep you, may He turn to you His countenance and give you peace.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Mrs. Don-o

You know your perfect, blue-eyed blonde from a healthy mother? She’s still an absolute pill once she turns 12, if not sooner, and the data is not yet in on whether she ever recovers.


28 posted on 08/04/2014 10:56:09 AM PDT by Tax-chick (No power in the 'verse can stop me.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: strider44
Don’t bother arguing with the righteous fruitcakes on this site.

Excuse you? Was anyone condemning someone to hell above? If not, you owe many people above an apology.

29 posted on 08/04/2014 11:41:18 AM PDT by Pyro7480 (Viva Cristo Rey!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Mrs. Don-o

The premise, “A child’s existence is a good. Therefore, all means of conceiving a child are good,” fails as soon as you say, “Rape.”

A person who wants to argue that IVF, specifically, is a good means of conception needs to address the arguments that it is an immoral means of conception. I don’t see anyone doing so; however, the work day makes it hard to FReep if your work isn’t watching little boys play Lego.

Of course, one can simply assert that IVF is good and then call people names if they disagree, no matter how polite and reasonable their disagreement is.


30 posted on 08/04/2014 1:17:25 PM PDT by Tax-chick (No power in the 'verse can stop me.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Tax-chick
LOL!

(Wincing.)

31 posted on 08/04/2014 2:03:33 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (8o})
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: Mrs. Don-o

The two who were not blonde have recovered from absolute-pillness, but this is not an exact match ...


32 posted on 08/04/2014 2:07:48 PM PDT by Tax-chick (No power in the 'verse can stop me.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Tax-chick

Pray. That, or alcohol.


33 posted on 08/04/2014 2:12:02 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Mrs. Don-o

Both.


34 posted on 08/04/2014 2:26:07 PM PDT by Tax-chick (No power in the 'verse can stop me.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Salvation

Except that they will never know their real biological father.

* * *

Incorrect assumption. We used my husband’s sperm and my eggs.


35 posted on 08/05/2014 1:25:30 AM PDT by Hetty_Fauxvert (FUBO, and the useful idiots you rode in on!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson