Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Do New Ordinations Signal Rising Popularity of Latin Mass?
The Washington Post ^ | 8/6/14 | Lily Fowler

Posted on 08/10/2014 6:27:13 AM PDT by marshmallow

ST. LOUIS — When Pope Francis first appeared to the crowd in St. Peter’s Square without the short red cape known as a mozzetta, some Roman Catholics cried foul, worried the pope’s decision to forgo the more formal wear signaled a threat to traditional worship.

Specifically, they fretted over the fate of the old Latin Mass, now in the hands of a papacy that seemed to shrug off pomp and circumstance.

But more than a year into Francis’ reign, the Tridentine Mass, as it is sometimes called, appears to be alive and well. Decades after the Catholic Church moved away from celebrating Mass in Latin, a throwback movement is growing, in many cases with young people leading the charge.

On Tuesday (Aug. 5), four men were ordained to the priesthood at St. Francis de Sales Oratory, the St. Louis church known for practicing the Latin liturgy.

The Mass marked only the second time members of the Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest have been ordained in the United States. The religious community, founded in Africa in 1990, regularly celebrates the old-style Mass.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Ministry/Outreach; Worship
KEYWORDS:

1 posted on 08/10/2014 6:27:13 AM PDT by marshmallow
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: marshmallow

Rather, I sense that the more newer ordinations want to end the abuses that have gone on in the NO masses, and to make the NO a lot more reverent.


2 posted on 08/10/2014 7:21:08 AM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: marshmallow

For many Catholics, the return of the Latin Mass meant their return to the church. When the first Latin Mass was held in Phoenix, the front rows were filled with “one foot in the grave” elderly, most in wheelchairs, some with IV bags, all desperate to hear the Latin mass once again. Tears of joy were plentiful.

As far as the rest of the church, it was SRO, with large floor fans brought in to help the overwhelmed air conditioner. Many young children were also brought, and told to remember every detail, for fear that the mass would again be taken away from them.


3 posted on 08/10/2014 7:26:05 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy ("Don't compare me to the almighty, compare me to the alternative." -Obama, 09-24-11)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: marshmallow

Did a very quick read and also refers to interest among youger people for the traditional mass.


4 posted on 08/10/2014 7:29:32 AM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

Rather it has survived very well and has joined in the many rites that are a part of the richness that is the beauty of the Church.


5 posted on 08/10/2014 7:31:36 AM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: marshmallow

Thank you for this post.

Nothing short of the Tridentine Mass offers our Lord the best, and the most, in movement, meaning and piety, beauty and reverence, of worship to His gift to us, Jesus Christ.

It is good that the WP gave exposure to the movement and the unity of spirit it brings, as the deacon attested. No one is attending who is not united in awe.


6 posted on 08/10/2014 7:37:33 AM PDT by RitaOK ( VIVA CRISTO REY / Public education is the farm team fmore Marxists coming.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RitaOK

Thank-you for your good word.

What I want to see are much, much more reverent masses, in both forms.


7 posted on 08/10/2014 7:49:40 AM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Biggirl

Surely you jest.

I can’t imagine having to drive four to six hours, in any direction, before finding a Tridentine Mass means anything close to saying, “it has survived very well”. LOL! Only those who don’t care about the TM, or oppose it outright, would say such a thing.

And, nevermind the near shunning of anyone appealing to bishops for the TM, and killing every effort to bring the Tridentine Mass into a diocese and parish. Stories abound coast to coast on the begging and the shunning going on.

“Survived very well”. Ridiculous.


8 posted on 08/10/2014 7:55:49 AM PDT by RitaOK ( VIVA CRISTO REY / Public education is the farm team fmore Marxists coming.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Biggirl

You are welcome. The NO has a very l o n g way to go, as it has from the beginning, set in motion a scandalous pattern of minimalization of all things past, bordering on abuse of piety, reverence, dignity. That will cause waves to change.

Cleavage abounds, deck shoes & shorts is common, as well as the casual behaviors that come with it.


9 posted on 08/10/2014 8:08:14 AM PDT by RitaOK ( VIVA CRISTO REY / Public education is the farm team fmore Marxists coming.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: RitaOK

I am not opposed to the TLM myself. Just opposed to those who end up acting not in a spirit Christian charity towards those who attend parishes where there is only the NO mass, even when it is done in a very reverent manner such as at my parish by those who attend TLM masses themselves.

At a time when Christians in other countries are fighting for their lives we who can still worship freely in this country cannot be fighting with each other.


10 posted on 08/10/2014 8:14:39 AM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Biggirl

At most seminaries, according to my information, new priests must take Latin. Thus they can celebrate the Novus Ordo or the Latin Mass.


11 posted on 08/10/2014 8:17:24 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Salvation

Good, thank-you for the updates.


12 posted on 08/10/2014 8:19:15 AM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Salvation

At most seminaries, according to my information, new priests must take Latin.

***
Well, that is good news. Sounds promising.


13 posted on 08/10/2014 8:32:50 AM PDT by Bigg Red (31 May 2014: Obamugabe officially declares the USA a vanquished subject of the Global Caliphate.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

Ah, a covert Zony.


14 posted on 08/10/2014 8:56:41 AM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Conservatism is the political disposition of grown-ups.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: marshmallow

I know 3 of the 4 newly ordained in this story, good men.


15 posted on 08/10/2014 10:02:41 AM PDT by pbear8 (the Lord is my light and my salvation)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: yefragetuwrabrumuy
For many Catholics, the return of the Latin Mass meant their return to the church. When the first Latin Mass was held in Phoenix, the front rows were filled with “one foot in the grave” elderly, most in wheelchairs, some with IV bags, all desperate to hear the Latin mass once again. Tears of joy were plentiful.
As far as the rest of the church, it was SRO, with large floor fans brought in to help the overwhelmed air conditioner. Many young children were also brought, and told to remember every detail, for fear that the mass would again be taken away from them.

The celebration of Mass ISN'T about the language used. I've been to Masses in India, all over Europe and south of the border.
I must say that in Serbia, a Catholic country, I understood only ONE word of the entire Mass: Jesu Christo.

So, Latin, Greek, whatever, we were given the gift of Jesus' Body and Blood. People who refused to go to Mass because the Latin disappeared apparently WEREN'T terribly interested in the ESSENCE of the Mass, that is, the gift on taking in the BODY, BLOOD, SOUL and DIVINITY of Jesus, but in the "bells and whistles."

SHALLOW faith.

16 posted on 08/10/2014 12:04:50 PM PDT by cloudmountain
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Salvation
At most seminaries, according to my information, new priests must take Latin. Thus they can celebrate the Novus Ordo or the Latin Mass.

One needs only to go to Google and look up the local seminary in their area and SEE what goes on. There ARE "public" days, feast days, celebrations and such, where the hordes can visit. I did that once and it was MOST rewarding and interesting.

Signed: hordette

17 posted on 08/10/2014 12:07:54 PM PDT by cloudmountain
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: pbear8

I don’t think people realize how many priests we know.
Three out of the four pastors in my vicariate. Two Carmelites, and several Benedictines in addition to knowing many of them by sight and just having trouble remembering their names.

Also know some of the priests in other cities, including Portland in my Archdiocese.


18 posted on 08/10/2014 12:21:58 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Biggirl

I so agree. We absolutely should not be fighting with each other. Our experiences are just different, therefore rather miles apart.

If it’s any consolation, the TM is at the mercy of the bishops and not so much the differences between the faithful. The faithful are mostly indifferent but not stridently opposed to something that has been unavailable to them or they have never seen themselves.

There are now, seemingly, a handful of bishops in the West who will cheerfully and actively provide for the TM, despite the longing for its return by young and old alike, and this despite the clarity of instructions from two popes to provide the great old Mass that defined Catholics for centuries.

Certainly the TM has been so banished in the US seminaries that priests themselves have seldom, if ever, been exposed to it nor trained for it, can no longer speak the liturgical Latin required for it or with any fluency, having for 40 years seen only the truncation or complete disposal of the beautiful, penetrating prayers and gestures of the TM.

Thirteen years in the Church as a convert and I have never even observed the traditional Mass, but instead have seen even the Novus Ordo celebrations become more and more indistinguishable from my Protestant experiences.

This just means I am rather exercised by the obvious campaign to keep the TM so “Extaordinary” that it is now considered a cultural oddity and a point of contention.

I am glad you have a reverent NO. I have not experienced even that in about six years. I have had to wonder if I will ever see a well done TM, in my lifetime.

Peace be with you. Rita


19 posted on 08/10/2014 12:30:24 PM PDT by RitaOK ( VIVA CRISTO REY / Public education is the farm team fmore Marxists coming.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: cloudmountain

> The celebration of Mass ISN’T about the language used.

This is the argument of modernism, that “x” doesn’t matter as long as the intent of “y” is there. In that case, then why doesn’t the Pope wear a Hawaiian shirt, shorts and flip flops? He would still be the Pope, wouldn’t he?

When people are raised from infancy with a spiritual ritual offering them a depth of feeling and a connection with the past, that of their parents, and grandparents, and ancestors, they rarely appreciate ideas like “...and now you can download the entire mass on your iPod, and it’s *exactly* the same!”

No, it’s not.


20 posted on 08/10/2014 1:25:48 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy ("Don't compare me to the almighty, compare me to the alternative." -Obama, 09-24-11)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: cloudmountain; Salvation

I have had that talk with myself, cm. It is important to arouse one’s conscience on matters of import. And, I am aware there are even those in schism over what Vatican II has wrought, seeing modernism have its way through the free “spirit of of Vatican II” interpretation. What a cannard that one is. But, I am not one of those.

Any Catholic who “refused to go to Mass because the Latin disappeared. ..” is surely extreme and rare, and to leave the receiving of our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament over language, is to my knowledge anyway, unheard of.

Simply put, I seek the proper and duly ordered best, the finest, and the most, in all matters of the Holy Sacrament of the Mass; ie., for sacred silence, reverence, piety, movement (rubrics), chant and music, and also art and architecture, certainly conduct, and dress and not the least of any of these things. All of this is pretty much gone by comparison to tradition.

VII did not call for a book burning of tradition, however, but to add a little vernacular to be permitted, but not the wholesale replacement of every part of the entire mass including all the responses of the faithful. And, frankly, I still shudder to see all backs to the Tabernacle remain in vogue rather than scandalizing.

No wonder the tabernacles in many churches were moved out, or side lined from central precedence of place. Consciences must have been on fire. These things are not a virtue, in my humble opinion. These are not the best first fruits of our offerings and abilities to our Creator and Sovreign God.


21 posted on 08/10/2014 1:29:35 PM PDT by RitaOK ( VIVA CRISTO REY / Public education is the farm team fmore Marxists coming.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: cloudmountain
Serbia is predominantly Serbian Orthodox. Catholics are about 6% of the population.

In Serbian and Croatian, "Jesus" is "Isus." "Christ" is "Krist."

When I was in Croatia, I could understand only a few words in the Mass, and none of the sermon. I think I would have like this morning's Mass (in the US) if I had not been able to understand any of the sermon. Too much politics.

22 posted on 08/10/2014 2:01:34 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: cloudmountain
Serbia is predominantly Serbian Orthodox. Catholics are about 6% of the population.

In Serbian and Croatian, "Jesus" is "Isus." "Christ" is "Krist."

When I was in Croatia, I could understand only a few words in the Mass, and none of the sermon. I think I would have like this morning's Mass (in the US) if I had not been able to understand any of the sermon. Too much politics.

23 posted on 08/10/2014 2:01:34 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: cloudmountain

“I must say that in Serbia, a Catholic country, ...”

It’s Eastern Orthodox. There are Catholics there though (about 5% of the population).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbian_Orthodox_Church

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_in_Serbia


24 posted on 08/10/2014 4:05:12 PM PDT by vladimir998
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: marshmallow

Interesting article.

I am acquainted with about a dozen young men currently studying for the priesthood, and ALL OF THEM came from the Latin Mass community in my area. That’s a LOT, when you think about how many men even go to the seminaries these days.

In addition, there are a few other (even younger) men — high school age boys, really — from the TLM community that are considering vocations even as we speak. We shall see where that leads.

Regards,

PS: Forgot to mention that most (not all) of those young seminarians ALSO come from the local home schooling community. I wonder how that measures up to the total number of seminarians. Does anybody know?


25 posted on 08/10/2014 6:52:21 PM PDT by VermiciousKnid (Sic narro nos totus!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson