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How To Shrink Your Church In One Easy Step
The Federalist ^ | 08/22/2014 | By Alexander Griswold

Posted on 08/22/2014 5:17:27 AM PDT by SeekAndFind

By now, we’ve all heard the refrain that U.S. churches need liberalize their teachings on sexuality and homosexuality or rapidly decline. The logic behind the argument is simple: more and more Americans are embracing homosexuality and same-sex marriage, including growing numbers of religious Millennials. So long as churches remain the face of opposition to gay marriage, those churches will shrink into irrelevancy when gay marriage (inevitably, we are told) becomes a settled political issue.

These arguments often see church acceptance of homosexuality as a carrot as well as a stick. It isn’t so much that denouncing homosexuality will drive people away from church, but that embracing it will also lead people into church. LGBT individuals and their supporters, many of whom hold a dim view of religion after a decades-long culture war, will reconsider church if denominations remove their restrictions on gay marriage and ordination.

But a number of Christian denominations have already taken significant steps towards liberalizing their stances on homosexuality and marriage, and the evidence so far seems to indicate that affirming homosexuality is hardly a cure for membership woes. On the contrary, every major American church that has taken steps towards liberalization of sexual issues has seen a steep decline in membership.

(Excerpt) Read more at thefederalist.com ...


TOPICS: Current Events; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: church; gaymarriage; homosexualagenda; homosexuality; religiousleft

1 posted on 08/22/2014 5:17:27 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

The acceptance of homosexual behavior is deadly.

It will kill churches, organizations and even nations.


2 posted on 08/22/2014 5:21:33 AM PDT by Oak Grove (H)
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To: SeekAndFind

All of the mainline protestant churches that adopted progressive liberal theology a century ago are dying today. Their support for homosexual acts and unions is nothing more than an outgrowth of their previous adoption of leftist theology.

These churches will continue to shrink because at the end of the day they don’t really believe in anything religious. At some point when the church is no longer religious a substantial portion of people don’t find it necessary to remain. Those that do view the church as little more than a social gathering place. These days, the folks filling the pews at leftist churches tend to have gray hair.


3 posted on 08/22/2014 5:22:08 AM PDT by LeoMcNeil
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To: SeekAndFind

That or convert your liturgy into an incomprehensible hodgepodge of arcane, obsolete English and a dead language from the time of Christ.


4 posted on 08/22/2014 5:26:38 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: SeekAndFind

I’ll tell you another one. Woman preachers. I already got a woman preaching at me at home. I don’t need to drive to a church to get more of it.


5 posted on 08/22/2014 5:27:26 AM PDT by olepap (Your old Pappy)
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To: Oak Grove
It will kill churches, organizations and even nations.

And people.

6 posted on 08/22/2014 5:28:02 AM PDT by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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To: SeekAndFind; Gamecock
Related thread:
Presb. Church USA launches ambitious plan to lose only 5% of members
7 posted on 08/22/2014 5:28:30 AM PDT by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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To: SeekAndFind

Yet, Baptist and Fundamental Protestant churches worldwide are seeing their churches grow, especially as they stand against the wickedness of the world.

Many of the Baptist churches I visit as I do work related travel are doing very well, and have full pews and full children’s programs.

“God is not dead, nor doth he sleep.”
or the modern equivalent
“God’s not dead, He isn’t even sick.”


8 posted on 08/22/2014 5:31:02 AM PDT by wbarmy (I chose to be a sheepdog once I saw what happens to the sheep.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Gay marriage is just one of a long string of issues that has undermined the mainline churches. Back in the 60s, when they moved away from preaching morality and moved to “God is your friend” and started advocating for social spending, the Exodus really started. Churches have made themselves superfluous by buying into the Libs’ personal freedom and social spending agendas.


9 posted on 08/22/2014 5:39:50 AM PDT by Opinionated Blowhard ("When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.")
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To: SeekAndFind

Jesus said that the way to life is narrow and difficult. God tells us that homosexuality is incompatible with God’s way of life, just as other sins. Society does not accept that declaration, so those who claim to represent God give in to pressures to soft-peddle what God says. They disqualify themselves in the process.


10 posted on 08/22/2014 5:45:40 AM PDT by theBuckwheat
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To: SeekAndFind
Another CCM artist, Vicky Beeching, "comes out".

GOD I'll never understand this crap.

11 posted on 08/22/2014 5:48:08 AM PDT by Marathoner (What are we waiting for? Where are the Articles of Impeachment?)
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To: SeekAndFind

They are not doing it to increase membership, they are doing it to give cover to their own vices (or that of a big donor).

“Membership” isn’t a real concern. In fact, I have seen synods celebrate the decline of membership once they start ordaining poofters and carpet munchers.


12 posted on 08/22/2014 5:55:05 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Yeah, tossing aside the Scriptures in order to please the 1.0-1.5% perverts crowd, consequently causing an exodus of the faithful, is a great strategy for church growth.

This advice must have come from Screwtape.


13 posted on 08/22/2014 6:20:44 AM PDT by SharpRightTurn (White, black, and red all over--America's affirmative action, metrosexual president.)
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To: SeekAndFind
So long as churches remain the face of opposition to gay marriage, those churches will shrink into irrelevancy when gay marriage (inevitably, we are told) becomes a settled political issue.

Fascinating...and wrong on multiple levels.

I participate in a number of fellowships that are growing by leaps and bounds. Of particular interest is the number of high school and college age "kids" who are absolutely on-fire for Jesus and willing to be very public about it.

The sodomite and death-culture proponent groups would like everyone to believe otherwise.

14 posted on 08/22/2014 6:58:47 AM PDT by Prov1322 (Enjoy my wife's incredible artwork at www.watercolorARTwork.com! (This space no longer for rent))
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To: SeekAndFind

Let’s see. A supposedly “Christian” church/denomination rejects pretty much whatever the Word of God says about morality? Apostate indeed. And it seems to always start with women clergy, in violation of Scripture. Everything snowballs from there.


15 posted on 08/22/2014 7:08:37 AM PDT by afsnco
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To: afsnco

I think the problem is even more BASIC than what the author says. It is this -— NOT ACCEPTING SCRIPTURE AS THE WORD OF GOD.

Let’s remember the very first attack the Devil did on our ancestor — Adam and Eve ... PLANTING DOUBTS IN THEIR MINDS ABOUT WHAT GOD SAID.

“Did God really say....” (Genesis 3:1)

Once you start questioning what God said and rationalize, anything goes and gay marriage is but one of the consequence.


16 posted on 08/22/2014 7:14:55 AM PDT by SeekAndFind (If at first you don't succeed, put it out for beta test.)
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To: LeoMcNeil

Right. If a church really doesn’t believe in anything, what’s the point of giving up your Sunday morning for nothing. Why give your money to not much of anything. The only people who remain are there out of inertia, tradition.


17 posted on 08/22/2014 7:16:14 AM PDT by all the best
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To: olepap

LOL.


18 posted on 08/22/2014 7:18:41 AM PDT by stevio (God, guns, guts.)
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To: SeekAndFind

The mainline Protestant tailspin will be worse than people imagine. The adult membership is simply coasting on their own childhood upbringing by parents for whom religion and doctrine actually mattered. Going to church is a comforting ritual and calling oneself agnostic or atheist is rather too much of an effort versus maintaining an identity as Christian. But their kids? Not 5% of them give one crap about church. They were raised by parents who didn’t deeply care and preached at by ministers who were simply social workers in frocks.

The destiny of pretty much every Episcopal and PCUSA church outside the south and rural America is to be sold for cool looking condos or converted into mosque or gurujawara...


19 posted on 08/22/2014 7:20:34 AM PDT by only1percent
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To: only1percent

RE: The destiny of pretty much every Episcopal and PCUSA church outside the south and rural America is to be sold for cool looking condos or converted into mosque or gurujawara...

Here in New York City and the Suburbs, Asian Churches ( e.g. Chinese and mostly Koreans ) are BUYING them up for a song or taking over. This is good news.


20 posted on 08/22/2014 7:23:10 AM PDT by SeekAndFind (If at first you don't succeed, put it out for beta test.)
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To: ShadowAce
It will kill churches, organizations and even nations.

And people.

...and their souls.

21 posted on 08/22/2014 7:28:05 AM PDT by painter ( Isaiah: “Woe to those who call evil good and good evil,")
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To: all the best

Exactly. If the church doesn’t believe in anything absolutely, then it’s just a social club with vaguely spiritual language.

The progressive movement fundamentally changed the church a little more than a century ago. On one hand it created the social gospel, which was and still is pushed by baptist and pentecostal type churches. (prohibition is a good example of the social gospel. On the other hand progressive “higher criticism” infected the mainline protestant churches. It began with questioning whether miracles occurred and having concluded that most Biblical miracles are just stories these churches quickly devolved into sexually perverse, progressive wastelands that don’t believe in anything absolutely.


22 posted on 08/22/2014 8:27:58 AM PDT by LeoMcNeil
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To: SeekAndFind

Agreed completely. And notice that original sin resulted from the reversal of gender roles, with Adam following Eve’s lead into sin.

Woman are poorly suited to preach the Word boldly, to insist on unwavering obedience to it. Their role has been as more of a peacemaker and compromiser to get everybody to get along. As a result, invariably, inexorably, any denomination that ordains women also embraces all manner of moral sin shortly thereafter.

Scripture, of course, declares that the “bishop” or pastor be the husband/man of one wife/woman. (1 Tim. 3:2 and Titus 1:6) So there’s really no question that women clergy are in disobedience to God’s Word. And that’s just the first step down that slippery slope to rebellious apostasy.


23 posted on 08/22/2014 8:30:43 AM PDT by afsnco
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To: Buckeye McFrog

That or convert your liturgy into an incomprehensible hodgepodge of arcane, obsolete English and a dead language from the time of Christ.

...and what liturgy would that be, pray tell...?


24 posted on 08/22/2014 10:09:50 AM PDT by IrishBrigade (')
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To: IrishBrigade

That or convert your liturgy into an incomprehensible hodgepodge of arcane, obsolete English and a dead language from the time of Christ.

...and what liturgy would that be, pray tell...?

...or, better yet, allow me to hazard a guess...you refer to the revised missal, with its tighter adherence to the Latin promulgation of the Pauline Missal of 1970...and that examples of ‘incomprehensible, arcane’ English would be ‘consubstantial’...am I correct...?

...you know, God allowed men to create dictionaries for a reason...


25 posted on 08/22/2014 10:32:02 AM PDT by IrishBrigade (')
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To: SeekAndFind

People aren’t going to church to be fed the world’s latest debauchery.

Essentially, those who attend church want to hear the Truth.


26 posted on 08/22/2014 11:02:13 AM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: Buckeye McFrog

That or convert your liturgy into an incomprehensible hodgepodge of arcane, obsolete English and a dead language from the time of Christ.

...and one last belated note, actually kind of advice, as I hate to see people in a quandary...I’m sure your parish offers some sort of kiddie mass, which I’m sure doesn’t challenge the boundaries of verbal commonality...just a tip...


27 posted on 08/24/2014 4:45:16 AM PDT by IrishBrigade (')
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To: LeoMcNeil

“These days, the folks filling the pews at leftist churches tend to have gray hair.”

And I think that’s because most of them don’t have a clue as to what is happening to their church at the national level. And as these gray hairs pass away, they are not being replaced with new members, thus eventually shrinking their congregations until no one is left.


28 posted on 08/24/2014 3:21:01 PM PDT by catnipman (Cat Nipman: Vote Republican in 2012 and only be called racist one more time!)
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To: Buckeye McFrog

29 posted on 08/24/2014 3:27:54 PM PDT by steve86 ( Acerbic by nature, not nurture)
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To: only1percent; SeekAndFind
The destiny of pretty much every Episcopal and PCUSA church outside the south and rural America is to be sold for cool looking condos or converted into mosque or gurujawara...

This Disco (Used To Be A Cute Cathedral)

What Steve says about it:From Now The Truth Can Be Told Liner Notes & Song-By-Song Essays, Now The Truth Can Be Told Insert Booklet, August 23rd, 1994:

"In the heart of Manhattan stands an old Presbyterian church that was converted in the mid '80s into New York's famed Limelight Club. My on-the- scene investigation began with the required ritual of waiting with the anxious crowd outside the entrance until a neo-nazi type doorman decided my shoes wouldn't scuff up the dance floor. He then escorted my friends and me through the vestibule, past rows of authentic looking crypts, then up to the cashier ringing up fifteen dollar admissions underneath a large cross.

We followed the beat to the sanctuary, just in time to catch a giant video screen being lowered over the pipe organ to show Madonna's latest for the two thousand boogie pilgrims jammed on the dance floor. My mind began to wander (like it always does during Madonna songs), and I started to imagine it was Sunday night, and that the church elders had devised all this as a way to attract new members.

30 posted on 08/24/2014 11:28:22 PM PDT by NoCmpromiz (John 14:6 is a non-pluralistic comment.)
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