Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

An Open Letter to Duggar Defenders - "you likely do not understand the Duggar’s subculture"
The Aquila Report ^ | 8-25-14 | Libby Anne

Posted on 08/26/2014 9:23:43 AM PDT by fishtank

An Open Letter to Duggar Defenders The problem real here is that you very likely do not understand the Duggar’s subculture

Written by Libby Anne | Monday, August 25, 2014

The Duggars are part of a very specific subculture of the Christian homeschooling world, one dominated by leaders like Doug Phillips of Vision Forum and Bill Gothard of ATI, whose incredibly restrictive teachings and controlling practices have earned them the adjective “cult-like.” These organizations and leaders teach that children must be trained to obey their parents completely, without question, and with a smile; that women are not to have careers and that daughters should be actively discouraged from considering such; that adult daughters must continue to obey their fathers and must marry through parent-controlled courtships; that college attendance is problematic for children of either gender but especially for girls; and that marrying and having large numbers of children is the only godly path available.

(Excerpt) Read more at theaquilareport.com ...


TOPICS: Moral Issues; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: arth; duggar; gothard
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-105 next last
Gothard warning.
1 posted on 08/26/2014 9:23:43 AM PDT by fishtank
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: fishtank

Yes but rampant promiscuity is to be celebrated. ack


2 posted on 08/26/2014 9:26:39 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: fishtank

http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2012/01/a-response-to-bill-gothard/

“The Definition of Grace”

Our website gains its title from our desire to expose Gothard’s false definition of grace, and to help those affected by it “recover” true grace in their lives. (For more about how Gothard twists grace, view the “grace and faith” section of “A Call for Discernment.”) As a result, the concept of grace is a constant thread throughout our website.

Gothard, well aware of our attempts to correct his re-definition of grace, devotes an entire section of his letter to defending it. As has been noted many times, the error is in his definition of grace as “the power and ability to do God’s will.”


3 posted on 08/26/2014 9:27:15 AM PDT by fishtank (The denial of original sin is the root of liberalism.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: driftdiver

See post below.

If the Duggar’s follow a false teacher like Bill (the Galatian) Gothard, their own teachings should be warned against.


4 posted on 08/26/2014 9:28:28 AM PDT by fishtank (The denial of original sin is the root of liberalism.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: fishtank

They are rearing young people to lead productive lives. They are a much better family than the others on tv like the Kardashians or however the name is spelled. I had rather have them in my community, too.


5 posted on 08/26/2014 9:29:23 AM PDT by MamaB
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: driftdiver
Yes but rampant promiscuity is to be celebrated. ack

There is a middle ground but regardless. If you don't like the way the Duggars are raising their children then don't watch their show.

6 posted on 08/26/2014 9:30:53 AM PDT by DoodleDawg
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: driftdiver

only in Bill Gothards office.


7 posted on 08/26/2014 9:31:24 AM PDT by DariusBane (Liberty and Risk. Flip sides of the same coin. So how much risk will YOU accept? Vive Deco et Vives)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: metmom

Not sure, but this looks like a slap at the ARTH crowd in general and the Duggars specifically.


8 posted on 08/26/2014 9:33:46 AM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: fishtank
Sounds like a “kit bash” of islam, and the Amish, or perhaps the puritan route. I guess it would depend on how adherent the followers of this proscribed doctrine are, and the consequences are if the doctrine is not adhered to (ie: expulsion from the group vs. having your head chopped off).
9 posted on 08/26/2014 9:34:00 AM PDT by factoryrat (We are the producers, the creators. Grow it, mine it, build it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: fishtank

...’ that women are not to have careers...’

Give me a break!!! They have careers alright just not those in which they follow $ rather than family. These women put huge numbers of hours in to raising their family. Its not surprising it has to be spelled out. My hats off to the Duggars!


10 posted on 08/26/2014 9:40:10 AM PDT by 556x45
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: MamaB

Did you read the article?

Do you understand what grace truly is?


11 posted on 08/26/2014 9:40:42 AM PDT by fishtank (The denial of original sin is the root of liberalism.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: MamaB

That’s kinda what it comes down to, now, isn’t it?

What family would you prefer having live next door?


12 posted on 08/26/2014 9:42:25 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: fishtank

As a Christian I have no objection to Christian children attending Hillsdale College. But I can totally appreciate why the Duggars would object to their kids going to an indoctrination camp (aka: public university or college) for the socialist left.


13 posted on 08/26/2014 9:45:42 AM PDT by MeganC (It took Democrats four hours to deport Elian Gonzalez)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: fishtank

Gothard has been dismissed from his work by his board, for revelations of sexual misconduct. It is a merciful thing for his followers, and hopefully will loosen the fetters he has had on a subculture of Christians for over 40 years.

His teaching was a mix of anecdote, personal opinion, the Law of Moses, control freakiness and out-of-context scripture. The hook that snared people was the implication via peer pressure that this is authentic and pure godliness, and if one did not buy into it, one is stained and compromised by the world and culture.


14 posted on 08/26/2014 9:46:55 AM PDT by lurk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: MrB

ATI is a cult. RUN. It has ruined countless lives and perpetrated sexual abuse of children. RUN don’t walk.

Authoritarian nature:

http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2014/03/joys-story/

Official position on Sexual abuse:

http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2014/04/there-is-no-victim-a-survey-of-iblp-literature-on-sexual-assault-and-abuse/

Spend some time at this website researching what these clowns do.


15 posted on 08/26/2014 9:47:23 AM PDT by DariusBane (Liberty and Risk. Flip sides of the same coin. So how much risk will YOU accept? Vive Deco et Vives)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: fishtank

Cain’s vegetables tossed into the Christian stew...

“There’s death in the pot!”


16 posted on 08/26/2014 9:48:04 AM PDT by avenir (I'm pessimistic about man, but I'm optimistic about GOD!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: fishtank

Thanks for posting this.

My mother and older sister (who is childless) picked up on these elements - sigh. Yet another cause for disagreeable disagreement in our family.

When I got a Vision Forum catalog in the mail, I was angry. Jane Austen is held up as an example to girls — sure, she was a witty British writer, but she is not a Christian writer and did not write to further the Kingdom.

And I can’t even begin to tell you how grossed-out I am by Bill Gothard.

As a homeschooling mother, I am SO thankful that I had the opportunity both to attend college and to work after college. It is just simply inhumane to deny a young woman a chance to do these things. We are fully human and equal with men in God’s kingdom. I completely accept that we have different roles in the church and at home, but my education and career opportunities means that I can be a better parent to my children who are both male and female. If I’m to teach children at church — ditto.

Does a man really want a woman without a strong education herself educating his sons at home?


17 posted on 08/26/2014 9:50:56 AM PDT by agrarianlady
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lurk

I think the hook that snared people is easy answers, clear guidelines to Godly living. All with a bow on top.

Problem is that nothing is simple. Just because something sounds good does not mean it is. The program is seductive to well meaning people to lazy to think for themselves.

The whole patriarch movement is a cess pool of sexual abuse, tyranny, control. Really an Orwellian nightmare.

http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2014/05/1984-and-ati/


18 posted on 08/26/2014 9:52:33 AM PDT by DariusBane (Liberty and Risk. Flip sides of the same coin. So how much risk will YOU accept? Vive Deco et Vives)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: 556x45

BUMP!!


19 posted on 08/26/2014 9:55:29 AM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: fishtank
WE ARE TO TELL AND SHARE THE STORY OF JESUS CHRIST. IT IS NOT OUR JOB TO CRITICISE OTHER PEOPLES BELIEF SYSTEM, AS IT IS MAINLY HEAR SAY AS IT COMES TO US.

THUS WE ARE LIKE THE BLIND LEADING THE BLIND IN THIS INSTANCE. mo

THE DUGGARS HAVE RAISED REMARKEDLY GOOD CHILDREN AND THE FAMILY IS CLOSE AND LOVING. THEY HAVE AN AMAZING STORY. MO

20 posted on 08/26/2014 9:57:21 AM PDT by geologist ("If you love me, keep my commands" .... John 14 :15)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: MeganC

Not a fan of the Duggars but it appears that they are the flip side
of the tax supported anti-American, anti- capitalism, anti-traditional
values system that too many Americans are forced to endure these
days. Would there be a need for a Duggar “cult” if the left had not
bullied their way into controlling American life? Maybe not.


21 posted on 08/26/2014 9:58:02 AM PDT by Sivad (NorCal red turf)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: DariusBane

I don’t plan on joining ATI, but it’s “the other ditch”.

In their attempt to get away from the world and the “prince” thereof, they’ve run into their own sin nature.


22 posted on 08/26/2014 9:58:16 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: geologist

They are part of a cult. They are cultists. They should not be encouraged or congratulated or emulated. Cults can’t tolerate sunshine. Why are you yelling?


23 posted on 08/26/2014 9:59:03 AM PDT by DariusBane (Liberty and Risk. Flip sides of the same coin. So how much risk will YOU accept? Vive Deco et Vives)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: fishtank

They’re an admirable family and compared to the other poison that’s on TV they’re a breath of fresh air.


24 posted on 08/26/2014 10:00:11 AM PDT by turducken
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: fishtank

Duggars.


25 posted on 08/26/2014 10:00:52 AM PDT by arthurus (Read Hazlitt's Economics In One Lesson ONLINE http://steshaw.org/economics-in-one-lesson/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: DoodleDawg

Yes. Exactly.


26 posted on 08/26/2014 10:01:51 AM PDT by arthurus (Read Hazlitt's Economics In One Lesson ONLINE http://steshaw.org/economics-in-one-lesson/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: MrB

Well said.

The other ditch is elitism, legalism. Gothard followers spend their days and nights judging each others dress, speech, appearance, behavior. They have no time for God.

Imagine a bunch of Pharisees surrounded by a broken world, pointing bony fingers of condemnation at their little small insular world of fellow Pharisees. Ridiculous.

The movement perpetrates, accepts, and condones sexual, emotional abuse of women by those in authority. Grace means accepting your abuse.

RUN


27 posted on 08/26/2014 10:03:35 AM PDT by DariusBane (Liberty and Risk. Flip sides of the same coin. So how much risk will YOU accept? Vive Deco et Vives)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: fishtank
The "Dugger's sub-culture" used to be mainstream America.

The genealogies of the first three hundred years after the Pilgrims landed at Plymouth are replete with families of eight or more children. That is how our vast country became populated so quickly after it became a nation.

The Dugger's are actually a throwback to our better days.

28 posted on 08/26/2014 10:03:45 AM PDT by Slyfox (Satan's goal is to rub out the image of God he sees in the face of every human.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Slyfox

NO! NO! No!

That is not true!

Don’t believe me?

http://www.recoveringgrace.org/

It will take you some time but it’s well worth it.


29 posted on 08/26/2014 10:06:00 AM PDT by DariusBane (Liberty and Risk. Flip sides of the same coin. So how much risk will YOU accept? Vive Deco et Vives)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: DariusBane; All

“JUDGE NOT LEAST YE BE JUDGED.”

God looks at /knows the heart.

Capitals are easier to read. My eyes are not what they once were.


30 posted on 08/26/2014 10:10:09 AM PDT by geologist ("If you love me, keep my commands" .... John 14 :15)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: geologist

I will leave the judging to the Duggers and their ilk.


31 posted on 08/26/2014 10:14:03 AM PDT by DariusBane (Liberty and Risk. Flip sides of the same coin. So how much risk will YOU accept? Vive Deco et Vives)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Slyfox

That culture was what made America what it was before the left succeeded in destroying it.

American exceptionalism - that the individual [family] is the unit at which the most power and decision making should occur.


32 posted on 08/26/2014 10:17:15 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: fishtank

Yes, we should all demonstrate God’s grace by following the moral code of the unbelievers around us.


33 posted on 08/26/2014 10:17:47 AM PDT by freedomfiter2 (Brutal acts of commission and yawning acts of omission both strengthen the hand of the devil.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Slyfox

You are right. I am into genealogy and the brother of an ancestor had 19 kids. Most lived to be adults. They teach responsibility, helping, etc. these parents care about God, their families, their neighborhood, state and country. I admire any family who are like them. Is this the kind of life for me? Nope, but it works for them. What others think is not important. I do not understand the hatred for this family but they love the Kardasians. The world is turned upside down. Good is hated but evil is loved. God bless them.


34 posted on 08/26/2014 10:18:45 AM PDT by MamaB
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: driftdiver

I don’t think we will ever hear of any of the Dugger boys gunned down in the street by a police officer. Maybe this person that wrote the article should mind her own business.


35 posted on 08/26/2014 10:21:18 AM PDT by defconw (Both parties have clearly lost their minds!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: geologist

BTW,

This whole business of leaving your brain at the door because of that verse is dumb.


36 posted on 08/26/2014 10:25:38 AM PDT by DariusBane (Liberty and Risk. Flip sides of the same coin. So how much risk will YOU accept? Vive Deco et Vives)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: fishtank

The older daughters have careers as midwives.


37 posted on 08/26/2014 10:32:41 AM PDT by informavoracious (Open your eyes, people!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: MamaB
I don't understand the hatred either. If they want to take on the responsibility to raise all those kids, that's their business. I personally like the show. The kids seem happy enough and they are not backward. I really have no problem with what they are doing.

The older kids have taken college classes on line. I really don't understand what they are doing wrong.

38 posted on 08/26/2014 10:33:38 AM PDT by defconw (Both parties have clearly lost their minds!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: MamaB

The Duggers have been silent on the Bill Gothard sex scandel. This scandal is a repeat of the earlier scandal in 1980.

It is inconceivable that the Duggers now nothing about this. Silence is acceptance.

Before you make statements in support of the Duggers you need to educate yourself and leave your prejudices behind.

http://www.recoveringgrace.org/

Go if you dare, but you won’t like it.


39 posted on 08/26/2014 10:36:41 AM PDT by DariusBane (Liberty and Risk. Flip sides of the same coin. So how much risk will YOU accept? Vive Deco et Vives)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: 556x45

And they have a TV show!


40 posted on 08/26/2014 10:36:44 AM PDT by CityCenter (Resist Obamacare!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: fishtank
These organizations and leaders teach that children must be trained to obey their parents completely, without question, and with a smile; that women are not to have careers and that daughters should be actively discouraged from considering such; that adult daughters must continue to obey their fathers and must marry through parent-controlled courtships; that college attendance is problematic for children of either gender but especially for girls; and that marrying and having large numbers of children is the only godly path available.

Not that there's anything wrong with that...

41 posted on 08/26/2014 10:38:45 AM PDT by Jim Noble (When strong, avoid them. Attack their weaknesses. Emerge to their surprise.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Jim Noble

“that adult daughters must continue to obey their fathers and must marry through parent-controlled courtships;”

Did you forget the sarcasm tag?


42 posted on 08/26/2014 10:40:49 AM PDT by DariusBane (Liberty and Risk. Flip sides of the same coin. So how much risk will YOU accept? Vive Deco et Vives)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: fishtank

As long as they are in a marriage, and they support themselves through work, I think they should have as many kids as they feel like.


43 posted on 08/26/2014 10:41:41 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: geologist
WE ARE TO TELL AND SHARE THE STORY OF JESUS CHRIST. IT IS NOT OUR JOB TO CRITICISE OTHER PEOPLES BELIEF SYSTEM, AS IT IS MAINLY HEAR SAY AS IT COMES TO US.

Didn't one of the girl's fiance get into trouble recently for doing that on Twitter or something?

44 posted on 08/26/2014 10:44:09 AM PDT by DoodleDawg
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: fishtank; KC_Lion

Most people who attack families like the Duggars do it from a position of envy, the envy the family unity and the envy the family success.

Most all the attacks from the left on families like the Duggars come from people who hate them for “some reason” they cannot conciously realize, but deep down there is a subconcious envy against people or groups of people who seem happier or more sucessful than themselves.

It is also one fo the reasons that anti-semitism is onthe rise. Instead of people looking at other cultures or groups of people and realizing what they are doing right and learnign from that and incorporating those positive attributes intot heir own culture, they would rather blame the successful for their own woes.


45 posted on 08/26/2014 10:48:53 AM PDT by GraceG (No, My Initials are not A.B.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: fishtank

Bttt


46 posted on 08/26/2014 10:54:56 AM PDT by kalee
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: fishtank
Maybe you should meet some of these families.

We home schooled and our sons were great friends with some of these kids. I never found one negative thing about ATIA families we socialized with other than it was not for me and my family as it was a step away from being Amish which none of us call cultist.

Just because they serve God stricter that you or I do does not make them any less Christian.

47 posted on 08/26/2014 11:15:18 AM PDT by Lady Heron
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: informavoracious

The older daughters (not the sons) get stuck raising the rest of the babies as de facto nannies or au pairs. Some great teenage years they must have.


48 posted on 08/26/2014 11:15:32 AM PDT by Cecily
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: informavoracious

The older daughters are also writers and website admins....and I’ve never heard of a cult that welcomed a film crew into their daily lives....

Looks like stones thrown from glass enclosures to me....


49 posted on 08/26/2014 11:18:16 AM PDT by Crim (Palin / West '16)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: DariusBane

Doug Phillips, formerly of Vision Forum, bit the dust as a leader in this crowd recently.


50 posted on 08/26/2014 11:19:08 AM PDT by Cecily
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-105 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson