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USCCB Loses Its Head
onepeterfive ^ | August 27, 2014 | PATRICK ARCHBOLD

Posted on 08/27/2014 2:08:59 PM PDT by NYer

isis-iraq-war-crimes.si

It is a curious conceit of an obtuse generation that it believes itself to be committed to modernity, embodied by devotion to science and reason, and yet is so irrevocably immutable to evidence.

The spiritual (but not religious) Mecca of modernity in the Catholic Church is the US Conference of Catholic Bishops, the headquarters of which would likely be a smoking ruin if we had a God quick to anger rather than slow.

The absurdity of this very modern institution is embodied perfectly in their recent USCCB statement on their “Commitment To Dialogue With Muslims.”

What is the bottom line? They are so committed to dialogue with Muslims, it seems, that they will persevere in useless dialogue until every last one of us Christians is dead.

“We understand the confusion and deep emotions stirred by real and apparent acts of aggression and discrimination by certain Muslims against non-Muslims, often against Christians abroad,” the bishops wrote. “Along with many of our fellow Catholics and the many Muslims who themselves are targeted by radicals, we wish to voice our sadness, indeed our outrage, over the random and sometimes systematic acts of violence and harassment—acts that for both Christians and Muslims threaten to disrupt the harmony that binds us together in mutual support, recognition, and friendship.”

In the face of a terrifying juggernaut of death and destruction that 50 years of dialogue have done absolutely nothing to stop and arguably encouraged, the USCCB is committed to more of the same. Everyone knows that dialogue with Islam is impossible since there is no monolithic Islam with which to dialogue, so we have endeavored to dialogue merely with its adherents. I think the most humble and unambitious goal of such interreligious dialogue would have been some sort of consensus that, in general, they shouldn’t try to kill us or anyone else. Even with the bar set so low, by any measurement, 50 years of dialogue has been a miserable failure.

So what do we need? More dialogue!!

You know why? You know what the real problem has been? You and I—we are the problem.

The bishops expressed sadness over “deliberate rejection” of the call to engage in dialogue with Muslims by some Christians, Catholic and not. They noted that the call to respect and dialogue comes from the Second Vatican Council’s Declaration on the Relation of the Church to Non-Christian Religions (Nostra Aetate) and has been reaffirmed by subsequent popes. They also noted that, for nearly 20 years, their committee has dialogued with several national Muslim organizations, producing documents on education, marriage and revelation.”

There is no agreement, however, on the value of all human life or even on the need for heads to remain attached to necks.

As I said, no amount of evidence of complete and utter failure of their preferred and ever-so-modern methods are enough to dissuade them from their chosen path. If it hasn’t worked, it’s because all the Christian riff-raff have not been sufficiently on board.

This should come as no surprise as it is exactly the mindset that informs every novelty and impulse of aggiornamento of the last 50 years post-Vatican II. As the Churches empty and close, and committees convene to close Churches by the triple digits, they call the closure committee “Making All Things New.” In the face of the pervasive and manifest failure of aggiornamento, they lament that the spirit of Vatican II, likes its blood brother Communism, has only failed because it has never really been tried. This level of doublespeak and absurd groupthink would astound even Orwell.

One can only shake one’s head in disbelief right up until the moment it gets chopped off.


TOPICS: Catholic; Ecumenism; Ministry/Outreach; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS:

1 posted on 08/27/2014 2:08:59 PM PDT by NYer
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To: Tax-chick; GregB; Berlin_Freeper; SumProVita; narses; bboop; SevenofNine; Ronaldus Magnus; tiki; ...

Ping!


2 posted on 08/27/2014 2:09:16 PM PDT by NYer ("You are a puff of smoke that appears briefly and then disappears." James 4:14)
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To: NYer

Well stated.


3 posted on 08/27/2014 2:20:09 PM PDT by ChildOfThe60s ((If you can remember the 60s.....you weren't really there)
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To: NYer
How do you dialogue with Satan , incarnate ?
You put on "The armor of God" , gird up your loins , and fight !
Is it not true ? Ask Michael ,..the Archangel !
For it is .., and has been,.. an eternal fight !
4 posted on 08/27/2014 2:22:07 PM PDT by Tilted Irish Kilt
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To: NYer

Things we know about Islam:

1) Mohammed thought he met a demon in the cave and ran home to hide. His wife convinced him it was an angle and he went back. He was right the first time.

2) It is true that Muslims do kill other Muslims. So what! If I’m driving the getaway car for a robbery and someone dies, I’m still guilty of Felony Murder. All those “moderate” Muslims are guilty of the crimes of their braver coreligionists.

3) They all seem to unite when they are up against non-Muslims.

4) They only speak in terms of death, so if they need dialogue, let’s give them dialogue in their own language!


5 posted on 08/27/2014 2:23:31 PM PDT by Bryanw92 (Sic semper tyranni)
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To: NYer

As an outsider, I am a bit confused. Each day markomalley posts Msgr. Pope’s daily missive, and I find the Msgr.’s presentation of the “orthodox” Catholic position to be most powerful. Would he be on the USCCB? I find very little of what they stand for to be what he stands for. What am I missing in this picture? (This is an honest question, not a rhetorical or snarky one.)


6 posted on 08/27/2014 2:25:46 PM PDT by chajin ("There is no other name under heaven given among people by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12)
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To: NYer

The call for interfaith dialog is not the grave sin of indifference.

A Muslim mother works at my baby’s daycare. She is absolutely loving towards my son. For the unsubtle, you can distinguish them from the radicals by the fact that she wears no face covering, drives for herself, talks to us fathers without shame, and respects the parents’ wishes. She is not ISIS. And anyone who lumps her in with ISIS without meeting her is dangerously ignorant.

If you’ll excuse a little poetic license in theology inspired from Dante, she may go to Hell if she never converts to Christianity, but if she does, I’m sure it’ll be something akin to the Plains of Elysium (sp?). I’m pretty sure anyone who lumps her in with ISIS after seeing her is pretty much going straight to the malebolge when they die unless they have a dramatic conversion.


7 posted on 08/27/2014 2:29:57 PM PDT by dangus
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To: Bryanw92
Mohammed thought he met a demon in the cave and ran home to hide. His wife convinced him it was an angle and he went back.

Maybe it was acute angle...

(the devil can handle anything but laughter)

8 posted on 08/27/2014 2:31:06 PM PDT by chajin ("There is no other name under heaven given among people by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12)
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To: dangus

Moderate Moslims are irrelevant.


9 posted on 08/27/2014 2:33:25 PM PDT by Chickensoup (Leftist totalitarian fascism is on the move.)
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To: chajin

The USCCB is enmeshed in the same network of foundations and non-profits that run the rest of America. I firmly believe it needs to be stripped down so it employs no-one but the bishops it represents. The moment anything is farmed out to the staff to express, the same foundationspeak infects it.


10 posted on 08/27/2014 2:36:08 PM PDT by dangus
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To: chajin
I find the Msgr.’s presentation of the “orthodox” Catholic position to be most powerful. Would he be on the USCCB? I find very little of what they stand for to be what he stands for. What am I missing in this picture?

The monsignor is not a bishop and it stands to reason he would not be a member of the USCCB(ishops). In fact, I think most Catholic bishops do not have much sway with the USCCB's pronouncements.

I believe you have to be a special kind of stupid to belong to that organization.

11 posted on 08/27/2014 2:40:02 PM PDT by GOP_Party_Animal
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To: Chickensoup

They are irrelevant in Palestine, and maybe Malmo, London and Dearborn. But while they are a scant minority in the street of Gaza, they are mere puppets for the truly powerful who continually reinvent the religion to detract from their own wickedness. Outside of Arab domination (which is most of North Africa, Arabia and the Levant), they are the minority.

I regard Mohammed as the most evil man to ever walk the Earth; compared to him, Hitler was a piker. But God continually speaks to the human heart, and wherever the reinventers don’t continually update and renew Mohammed’s fanatical hatred, people find the truth about Christ, even obscured behind the Koran.

And this is from where the conversion of the Islamofascists will come: not from Bush’s wars (as just as they are), but from the converts from within Islam, who find Christianity to be more than simply than the sort of reactive hatred of the “kill them all” types.


12 posted on 08/27/2014 2:43:30 PM PDT by dangus
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To: All
The spiritual (but not religious) Mecca of modernity in the Catholic Church is the US Conference of Catholic Bishops, the headquarters of which would likely be a smoking ruin if we had a God quick to anger rather than slow. The absurdity of this very modern institution is embodied perfectly in their recent USCCB statement on their “Commitment To Dialogue With Muslims.”

What is the bottom line? They are so committed to dialogue with Muslims, it seems, that they will persevere in useless dialogue until every last one of us Christians is dead.

PFL

13 posted on 08/27/2014 2:44:53 PM PDT by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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To: dangus

They are more than irrelevant here. If I hear one more time how wonderful Moslim women are I need to remind them that they are controlled by Moslim men.

Conservatives actually believe they do not lie.


14 posted on 08/27/2014 2:46:16 PM PDT by Chickensoup (Leftist totalitarian fascism is on the move.)
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To: GOP_Party_Animal

Few of the people at the USCCB are bishops; that is the problem.


15 posted on 08/27/2014 2:47:29 PM PDT by dangus
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To: dangus; GOP_Party_Animal

Thanks to both of you, I now understand more about what a msgr. is, and as for the USCCB, I think I get it now. The same thing happens in liberal Protestant denominations, where the staff organizations take positions that many of the clergy and almost all of the laity would be ashamed to be associated with.


16 posted on 08/27/2014 2:48:22 PM PDT by chajin ("There is no other name under heaven given among people by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12)
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To: GOP_Party_Animal

Let me be more careful in what I say:

The Committee in question is chaired by an auxiliary bishop, has 7 members, who are all bishops, and 14 advisors who are all bishops. But most of the staff are laity.

Reverend Dr. John Crossin, OSFS
Executive Director

Anthony Cirelli, Ph.D.
Associate Director
Reverend Dr. Ronald G. Roberson, CSP
Associate Director

Ms. Julia McStravog, M.A.
Program and Research Specialist

Mrs. Nancy Robinson
Assistant to the Executive Director

Ms. Nicole Mazur
Staff Assistant


17 posted on 08/27/2014 2:51:10 PM PDT by dangus
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To: dangus

http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/ecumenical-and-interreligious/interreligious/islam/dialogue-with-muslims-committee-statement.cfm

The OP is in response to the above statement by the Committee for Ecumenical and Interreligious Affairs. Note all of the members are, in fact, BISHOPS.


18 posted on 08/27/2014 2:54:11 PM PDT by piusv
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To: dangus; chajin
The USCCB is enmeshed in the same network of foundations and non-profits that run the rest of America.

Some clarification is required here. Freeper chajin has posed an honest and serious question.

Let's begin with the most basic question ... "what is the USCCB?"

he United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) is an assembly of the hierarchy of the United States and the U.S. Virgin Islands who jointly exercise certain pastoral functions on behalf of the Christian faithful of the United States. The purpose of the Conference is to promote the greater good which the Church offers humankind, especially through forms and programs of the apostolate fittingly adapted to the circumstances of time and place. This purpose is drawn from the universal law of the Church and applies to the episcopal conferences which are established all over the world for the same purpose.

he Conference is organized as a corporation in the District of Columbia. Its purposes under civil law are: "To unify, coordinate, encourage, promote and carry on Catholic activities in the United States; to organize and conduct religious, charitable and social welfare work at home and abroad; to aid in education; to care for immigrants; and generally to enter into and promote by education, publication and direction the objects of its being."
source.

IOW, as a body, they oversee various programs with good intentions. They do not make doctrine.

Were Msgr. Charles Pope to be made a bishop, he would be required to attend 2 annual meetings and accept assignment to some committee. When the USCCB issues a communique, it does not necessarily reflect the voices or opinions of all its members. Does this help to address your question?

19 posted on 08/27/2014 2:54:46 PM PDT by NYer ("You are a puff of smoke that appears briefly and then disappears." James 4:14)
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To: dangus

So it’s the staff that are responsible here? Are you kidding me?


20 posted on 08/27/2014 2:55:12 PM PDT by piusv
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To: GOP_Party_Animal

Wow! The advisors to the committee is like a who’s who of scandalous bishops!

It includes Hubbard of Albany, Skylstad of Spokane, Skbla of Milwaukee, and Cardinal Keeler of Baltimore! Was Law, Teddy Kennedy’s buddy, too conservative or just too busy running the basilica-museum in Rome?


21 posted on 08/27/2014 2:59:37 PM PDT by dangus
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To: piusv

Not my implication at all. Responsibility lies with the bishops, but their fault often is simply preoccupation with other matters and a failure to rout out the problem. However, I just posted about how terrible the bishops on this committee are.


22 posted on 08/27/2014 3:01:54 PM PDT by dangus
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To: dangus
I think you're right - while the conference is nominally one for US bishops, there's a staff that churns out leftist crap. The bishops are either inclined to agree, or are too cowardly to squelch this kind of political speech. Other, more conservative bishops do not feel it their duty to debunk or try to present a countering view.

So all you hear in public proclamations from the Catholic Church are these clowns, who continue to give Catholicism a bad name.

23 posted on 08/27/2014 3:15:48 PM PDT by GOP_Party_Animal
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To: GOP_Party_Animal

It all comes directly from Vatican II.


24 posted on 08/27/2014 3:17:23 PM PDT by piusv
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To: dangus
A Muslim mother works at my baby’s daycare. She is absolutely loving towards my son. For the unsubtle, you can distinguish them from the radicals by the fact that she wears no face covering, drives for herself, talks to us fathers without shame, and respects the parents’ wishes. She is not ISIS. And anyone who lumps her in with ISIS without meeting her is dangerously ignorant.

Going to college, there's several younger Muslims who obviously aren't ISIS material. Some of them are decent people. But the fight isn't against individuals, the fight is against the 'religion'.

One of my best buddy's dad is from Iran, so he's technically a Muslim. His favorite food is bacon. He's less Muslim than I am Catholic.

The issue we have here is not the call for dialogue by the USCCB, but the lack of condemnation that liberal organization has for Islam as a whole. The Koran is not a happy-feel-good book.
25 posted on 08/27/2014 3:33:51 PM PDT by Svartalfiar
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To: NYer

Who would have though you would see these kind of images after WW2? Just flat out murdering people for their religion or valuables. Sick mofo’s.


26 posted on 08/27/2014 3:45:10 PM PDT by US_MilitaryRules (The last suit you wear has no pockets!)
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To: NYer

We need to focus on the common ground between Christianity and Islam. Let’s see….

Islam does not believe that Jesus is the Son of God.

Islam does not believe that Jesus was born of a virgin mother.

Islam does not believe in the Holy Trinity

In Islam, Allah asks that his followers die for him, in Christianity, our God died for us.

In Islam, the surest way to paradise is to die in jihad, in Christianity; the surest way to heaven is to accept God’s grace.

In Islam, a woman “accused” of adultery is stoned to death, in Christianity; a woman who has “committed” adultery and asks for forgiveness is forgiven and asked to sin no more.

In Islam, Allah mandates that everyone worship him or die, in Christianity; God asks that we love Him and one another.

I just don’t understand why we don’t get along given how much we have in common.


27 posted on 08/27/2014 4:00:30 PM PDT by Sergio (An object at rest cannot be stopped! - The Evil Midnight Bomber What Bombs at Midnight)
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To: Sergio

Islam will kill anyone who will not convert from Christianity etc to Allah, so that should tell you they do not serve the same God as the Christians/Jews. Because there would be no conversion to Islam necessary if they did....case closed.

So who is Allah? Not the God of Love. I think we know them by their fruits of hate, murder, destruction, and their desire to destroy freedom....the two groups have nothing in common there.


28 posted on 08/27/2014 4:08:22 PM PDT by Kackikat
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To: NYer
Does this help to address your question?

Very much so; thank you!

29 posted on 08/27/2014 4:09:10 PM PDT by chajin ("There is no other name under heaven given among people by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12)
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To: Svartalfiar
My child would not be in a daycare with Muslim caregivers. Never.

I don't care if they appear to be loving Sheherazades or not.

But that's just me.

Leni

30 posted on 08/27/2014 4:16:46 PM PDT by MinuteGal
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To: dangus
A Muslim mother works at my baby’s daycare. She is absolutely loving towards my son. For the unsubtle, you can distinguish them from the radicals by the fact that she wears no face covering, drives for herself, talks to us fathers without shame, and respects the parents’ wishes. She is not ISIS. And anyone who lumps her in with ISIS without meeting her is dangerously ignorant.

A moderate muzlim is a bad muzlim...Those of us who bother to look know that they are ALL taught to hate those who are not muzlim...They are taught to look forward to and contribute to killing or enslaving all who are not muzlims...That is not being a radical muzlim...That is being a muzlim...

You may want to read this:

31 posted on 08/27/2014 4:21:19 PM PDT by Iscool
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To: Bryanw92
2) It is true that Muslims do kill other Muslims. ...

3) They all seem to unite when they are up against non-Muslims.

An old Arab proverb, "Me against my brothers, me and my brothers against my cousins, me and my brother and my cousins against the world."

32 posted on 08/27/2014 4:34:57 PM PDT by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
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To: NYer
Note that the Pontifical Council in Rome has moved in a different direction than the USCCB. http://www.crisismagazine.com/2014/pontifical-council-slams-islamists Crisis Magazine Article
33 posted on 08/27/2014 5:02:27 PM PDT by MassRepublican
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To: MinuteGal
My child would not be in a daycare with Muslim caregivers. Never.

Ditto.

34 posted on 08/27/2014 5:24:40 PM PDT by BlatherNaut
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To: dangus

BTTT!


35 posted on 08/27/2014 6:54:05 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: NYer

The USCCB has been an appendage of the Democrat party since its creation in the ‘teens, as the National Catholic Warfare Conference. Its purpose was to support the draft—in defiance of Pope Benedict XV—and Wilson’s entry into the war. The dominant groups in the Catholic Church at the time were the Irish and the Germans, neither of whom was enthusiastic about getting into the war on the side of the British!

The abortionists got their greatest rhetorical gift from the NCCB’s president, Joseph Cardinal Bernardin, with his “seamless garment,” the doctrine that pro-abortion politicians will govern with justice, wisdom, and compassion, and that pro-life politicians want to kill the poor and blow up the world.

The parking lot at the USCCB was festooned with KERRY bumper stickers in 2004. When a Catholic lady published photographs of all the pro-abortion bumper stickers at the bishops’ conference, the bishops took decisive action: They tightened security at the entrance of the parking lot.


36 posted on 08/27/2014 7:24:43 PM PDT by Arthur McGowan
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To: Arthur McGowan
The USCCB is wrong on so many issues.

For example, they have consistantly come out in favor of amnesty for illegal immigrants, as shown here and here, a position which goes directly against the Catholic teaching in the Catechism (2241) which insists that immigrants must obey the laws of the land they are emigating to.

They have regularly shown their support of Al Gore and his fellow demoncraps views on "global warming/climate change", as reflected here and here.

When asked about football player Michael Sam's coming out as an active homosexual, the former president of the USCCB (Cardinal Dolan) said "Bravo!", and "Good for him!", and Dolan also has come up shaky on his reactions to many other current moral issues. (See here and here and here for some examples.)

Someone on one of these discussions once recommended that the USCCB should be totally disbanded, and I agree with that goal, as well as the idea of faithful US Catholics ceasing all financial support of all USCCB monetary collections.

37 posted on 08/27/2014 10:16:43 PM PDT by Heart-Rest ("Our hearts are restless, Lord, until they rest in Thee." - St. Augustine)
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To: NYer

Their first and BIGGEST mistake is the idea that one can dialogue with Muslims. Ain’t gonna happen, because Muslims have no desire to ‘dialogue’ with infidels, as they consider these Bishops.


38 posted on 09/01/2014 11:45:50 AM PDT by SuziQ
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