Presbyterians And Homosexuals Together: The Crisis Of Christ And Culture

Thank you. The quote and your link were both very informative and helpful in putting Catholic teaching on marriage into context. By starting with Sacramental marriage, I was getting ahead of myself and not starting at step one.

As far as I know, all Christian churches have a history of defining marriage based upon natural marriage at least until recently. Rule changing denominations seem to deny that step one, natural marriage, is compelled by the Faith. I suppose my question with respect to protestant theology has to do with the importance of marriage, if it is not elevated to a Sacramental level. The Apolstles’ and Nicene Creeds don’t address marriage, so I assume the marriage question is at least one step down from what it means to be Christian.

If the consequence is living in the condition of sin, is there anything making that different from others who sin? I suppose denying the condition of sin can impair reconciliation, but reconciliation isn’t a protestant sacrament either. (Yeah I know, I’m stuck on the Sacraments today).

This is all very interesting to me, and I'll be the first to admit I need to do a lot more learning about it.

I do know that the Catholic Church, while treasuring Scripture as Divinely inspired and indispensable but not believing in "sola" Scriptura, has historically thought it worthwhile to engage in a sustained and in-depth study of Natural Law. We are convinced that the two books, so to speak --- the Book of Scripture and the Book of Nature --- both come from the same Author and teach the same moral truths. We would argue that the entirety of Moral Law can be derived from a study of the structure of Reality itself: Nature conformed to God's eternal Law.

On all the sex-gender-marriage-family questions, the Catholic Church is heavily indebted to Natural Law. We see which things have contributed to human flourishing across centuries, continents and cultures, and across generations.

I'm somewhat out of my depth here, but what I'm groping towards is this:

There are reasons why all cultures have recognized some form of marriage, and it always involves the male/female combination. Even though there are many cultural variants on marriage, they all center around the male-female union and they all involve some sort of restraint. Even powerful men or prominent and privileged women are not allowed to have any form of copulation with any partner they want, any time they want.

It's a fair generalization to say that human societies are stable when sexual relations between men and women are stable: this leads to life; and human societies become insecure and dysfunctional when sexual relations are unstable. And, importantly, stability results from cooperation from the natural structure of things: OUR natural structure. It is not simply imposed by the law or by the will.

My friend lives in KS and doesn’t even have a PCA option as there are none of those in KS.

There are 8 PCA churches in Kansas. Three in Wichita, two in Overland Park, and one each in Manhattan, Lenexa, and Olathe.

There are two OPC churches (Caney and Overland Park), 12 EPC churches, no ARP churches. The only ECO I find is in Overland Park; one would be better off with the OPC there.

Not sure where you are looking. They have two different tools. For the state search the old database directory was the quickest. http://stat.pcanet.org/ac/directory/directory.cfm Select the state from the drop down menu.

For a map based tool, this site is more helpful. http://www.pcaac.org/church-search/
Ignore the search input blank and just zoom in and move around the map.

Note - there are a number of Korean churches in the denomination, so check the Presbytery membership for members of the Korean Presbyteries (unless, of course, you speak Korean).

If you want to consider some other options, you might look for other NAPARC churches. (No centralized search - you have to go to each denomination.) There’s a general no-poaching agreement among them, So overlap is discouraged. And frankly, there are a few that wouldn’t be my cup of tea. http://www.naparc.org/member-churches/directories-2/

The congregations leaving the PCUSA today are not joining the PCA. They are joining the newly-formed Evangelical Covenant Order (a name that must have been invented by Tom Cruise and John Travolta) or the Evangelical Presbyterian Church both of which are to the left of the PCA. As a result the EPC, once potentially headed toward the confessional sideline, is now firmly entrenched in the borderline.

I am currently attending an EPC ..It is a perfect choice for the PCUSA's that have already transitioned into a more "flexible" Presbyterian leadership model..

We have to remember that the term Presbyterian announces the church's leadership model not its doctrine ...

In the case of the PCUSA they have long abandoned a male leadership model laid out in scripture ..and have become churches with "mixed" leadership...

So the EPC allows each church to decide if they want the male leadership model or the "mixed" one

I left a PCA with an all male leadership that misused, misread, and proof texted their way through scripture ..to a church that has women deacons and women teachers.. but a strong reformed doctrinal position , scripture taught in context, a pastor with strong pastoral gifts and a love of the reformation doctrine.. this was an easy trade off for me.. I am loving this church. my new Pastor and the members .. and I do not miss the hit and miss PCA that is slowley moving to the left..

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