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Six Poor Reasons for Rejecting the Miraculous
Saints and Sceptics blog ^

Posted on 06/07/2015 7:08:33 PM PDT by DeweyCA

Christian theology affirms a number of miracles, most importantly the atonement, the resurrection, the incarnation and the virgin birth. The secular mind dismisses these as tall-tales and myths produced by superstitious, pre-modern minds. However, it seems to us that the modern prejudice against miracles is not very rational.

1) Experience shows that miracles do not occur (Skip)

2) Science shows that miracles are impossible! (Skip)

3) If we believe in one supernatural event we might as well believe in Santa and flying reindeer! (Skip)

4) But surely miracles are so improbable, so extraordinary, that no amount of evidence could justify believing a miracle had occurred? (Skip)

5) You can’t believe in miracles unless you already believe in God. (Skip)

6) There is no way to tell from the historical record if a miracle has occurred. (resurrection evidence)

(Excerpt) Read more at saintsandsceptics.org ...


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Charismatic Christian; Evangelical Christian; Religion & Science; Theology
KEYWORDS: miracles; resurrection
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He lays out the common objections to miracles and nicely refutes them.
1 posted on 06/07/2015 7:08:33 PM PDT by DeweyCA
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To: DeweyCA

No, the most common problem is that people attribute miracles to humans instead of God and then humans pretend to elevate those humans to heaven as “Saints”


2 posted on 06/07/2015 7:24:48 PM PDT by GeronL
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To: DeweyCA

I think in the end though it still comes down to faith.and there’s been many a time when I blame God for troubles that I have gotten myself into and other times when I have not giving him praise for the good things that have happened to me


3 posted on 06/07/2015 7:36:49 PM PDT by dp0622
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To: GeronL

Only God can preform miracles. We ask holy people who have died and we believe are in heaven to intercede to God on our behalf. If it is God’s will that we should receive that particular miracle, He will allow it to show us that the holy person was pleasing to Him by his virtue and life, and that they are a good example to emulate for our own faith journey.


4 posted on 06/07/2015 8:09:29 PM PDT by JPII Be Not Afraid
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To: DeweyCA

Although I think, as explained in the article, there is sufficient evidence in the historical record to support the Resurrection, the Shroud of Turin pretty much seals it. If modern science, with its electron microscopes and other sophisticated instruments still cannot determine that the Shroud has a human origin, it is either the most incredible and eleaborate fake in all of history surpassing even the ability of modern technology to reproduce it, or it truly is a remnant of the Resurrection.

Take your pick.


5 posted on 06/07/2015 8:11:12 PM PDT by HerrBlucher ("We should thank God for beer and burgundy by not drinking too much of them." GK Chesterton)
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To: JPII Be Not Afraid

There is only one way to God and that is through Jesus.

The ONLY way.


6 posted on 06/07/2015 8:11:34 PM PDT by GeronL
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To: GeronL

We believe saints are in heaven to help us. They pray for us, especially when we ask them to. Only God grants miracles.


7 posted on 06/07/2015 8:19:13 PM PDT by JPII Be Not Afraid
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To: dp0622
there’s been many a time when I blame God for troubles that I have gotten myself into

Sometimes we need chastening. It was the Father's whippings that brought me back to my senses!

"For whom the Lord loves He chastens,
And scourges every son whom He receives."
- Hebrews 12:6

-----------------------------
I think in the end though it still comes down to faith.

The miracles were God's way of testifying to the truth of the gospel, to produce faith.

"...how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him, God also bearing witness both with signs and wonders, with various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to His own will?" - Hebrews 2:3-4

They're recorded so that we can believe:

"And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name." - John 20:30-31
8 posted on 06/07/2015 8:20:24 PM PDT by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
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To: DeweyCA

http://celebrationcenter.org/a-hundred-million-miracles/


9 posted on 06/07/2015 8:24:01 PM PDT by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
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To: JPII Be Not Afraid
Only God can preform miracles.

This is the only accurate statement in your post. Disregard the remainder.

We ask holy people who have died and we believe are in heaven to intercede to God on our behalf. If it is God’s will that we should receive that particular miracle, He will allow it to show us that the holy person was pleasing to Him by his virtue and life, and that they are a good example to emulate for our own faith journey.

10 posted on 06/07/2015 8:36:33 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: TBP
That article makes miracles seem rather trite, doesn't it? The author makes miracles into non-miracles.

Here's more from their website:

"We believe that the universe is spiritual and has intelligence, purpose, beauty, and order. Our beliefs are in harmony with all the world’s great spiritual teachings, and we honor all paths to God. Whether we call it God, Spirit, Energy, or Universal Intelligence, we are ever conscious that all people, places, and things emanate from this Universal Intelligence that is within us and all around us."
11 posted on 06/07/2015 8:36:44 PM PDT by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
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To: GeronL
Your understanding is skewed. Nobody can be elevated to Heaven -- we can merely conclude that it is very likely that a particular person is there.

One flock, one Shepherd. Believers united in Christ pray for one another and assist one another, and physical death does not separate one (one who is saved that is) from praying for his fellow believers. Just like any other member of the flock, a Saint can pray for his fellow believers, and if a person has been brought into Heaven by God and is closer to God than we on earth are as of yet, his prayers are more pleasing to God. So, it makes perfect sense that we request that that person pray for us.

12 posted on 06/07/2015 8:48:19 PM PDT by Wyrd bi ful ard (Cruz or lose!)
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To: DeweyCA

I find it odd that the devoutly faithful are always asking that we use natural law over positive law, but at the same time they want us to accept supernatural explanations, instead of natural explanations, for natural phenomenon.


13 posted on 06/07/2015 8:50:19 PM PDT by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: all armed conservatives.)
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To: ealgeone

You are free to disregard. I am free to believe all the miracles granted through the intercession of saints, and there have been many proven miracles. The Catholic church is the srictest and hardest on evidence of miracles. If the church says its a miracle, I believe it. You can choose not to.


14 posted on 06/07/2015 9:15:21 PM PDT by JPII Be Not Afraid
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To: Wyrd bið ful aræd
One flock, one Shepherd. Believers united in Christ pray for one another and assist one another, and physical death does not separate one (one who is saved that is) from praying for his fellow believers.

Prove that nonsense, or admit that your religion made it up...

15 posted on 06/08/2015 10:47:28 AM PDT by Iscool
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To: JPII Be Not Afraid
Only God can preform miracles.

Actually Satan can and does work "miracles as we see in Exodus 7:11, "Then Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers: now the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments."

And we are warned that Satans deception will continue until the end

"And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live." —Revelation 13:14

"For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty." —Revelation 16:14

We ask holy people who have died and we believe are in heaven to intercede to God on our behalf. If it is God’s will that we should receive that particular miracle, He will allow it to show us that the holy person was pleasing to Him by his virtue and life, and that they are a good example to emulate for our own faith journey.

Do we have NT scriptural examples of that????

Truth is that the 'saint" gets all the glory.. not God

We are told we do not need any intercessor but Christ... and that we can go directly to God in prayer

Heb 4:15For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin. 16Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

16 posted on 06/08/2015 12:41:57 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7

bump


17 posted on 06/08/2015 1:29:35 PM PDT by GeronL
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To: RnMomof7

Let’s look at some more examples:

2 Thessalonians 2:9:9 The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders

Matthew 24:24 For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.

Of course if you whittle away at Scriptural authority by adding tradition you wind up believing in all sorts of nonsense.


18 posted on 06/08/2015 1:54:03 PM PDT by Gamecock (Why do bad things happen to good people? That only happened once, and He volunteered. R.C. Sproul)
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To: JPII Be Not Afraid; GeronL
>>They pray for us, especially when we ask them to.<<

Do Catholics think people are so stupid to believe that all they expect from those saints and Mary is that they will pray for you? We've seen the prayers. Catholics ask them to do specific tasks not just pray for them. Catholics have made them demi gods.

19 posted on 06/08/2015 2:48:31 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: CynicalBear

That is the definite impression


20 posted on 06/08/2015 3:15:50 PM PDT by GeronL
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