Posted on 05/05/2016 7:35:24 AM PDT by xzins
Great presenter. I sat through a week of sermons led by Hamilton at our annual conference a few years back. Good speaker, seemingly evangelical, but he uses the ‘culture bound’ argument to explain Paul and the bible. His view is that the acceptance of divorce being culturally based parallels what our view of homosexuality should be.
No one addresses harm done by the behaviors.
The harm of homosexuality leads to death, debilitation, psychological malfunction, and spiritual separation. It is so immediate and serious that it is an abomination.
Divorce also cause harm, but it generally is not directly linked to death and physical malady as is homosexuality.
“They want EACH church to be allowed to decide for itself whether or not in will have a homosexual pastor, allow homosexual ministers, etc. They also want each annual conference to make that same decision.”
Why not make all sins optional? We can have a congregation for murderers, one for liars, one for adulterers (the ice cream social at that one will be lots of fun!)
You hit it right dead center.
They explain it away as being a sin....that’s their only recourse.
Even though the behavior will kill, injure, debilitate, weaken, etc., they refuse to address that aspect of it.
Anytime you consider another book equal to the Bible or in competition you are in grave error. The Book of Discipline should be ignored.
The Bible is very clear.
The Book of Discipline is supposedly an organizational book on how to conduct meetings, finances, etc. Somewhere along the line social stuff crept into it.
I predict the majority will vote to uphold the current wording in the Book of Discipline (supported overwhelmingly by the international UMC representatives). I also predict this will lead to a split. But the possibility of a split would be equally likely if the majority voted to delete the current wording.
The compromise offered by Hamilton and Slaughter will not fly. Those on either side of the issue will not want to be members of an organization that permits a free for all with no consistency from town to town, church to church.
I don’t need to waste my time reading this diatribe. It’s real simple. God says in His word, the bible, that homosexual relations are an “ABOMINATION”. The Greek word for abomination translates to “ABOMINATION”. The Hebrew word for abomination translates to “ABOMINATION”.
I am unaware of a stronger word to use than “ABOMINATION”.
It is an abomination to God. Methodists, Catholics, or Baptists, it’s an “ABOMINATION”.
There is NOTHING to discuss.
Withering ton has a good biblical reply worth reading. Jmho
I think Hamilton owns the Kansas delegates and Slaughter the Ohio delegates. The liberals will vote as a block. It will be awfully close to the tipping point with rules about youth delegates and minority delegates.
If it tips 2016 or 2020 will be the years.
I’m not sure of the politics involved, but I wonder if Hamilton and Slaughter can hold their delegation together if their compromise plan is voted down, which I expect it will be.
The UMC church in Africa and Asia, which is more conservative, is growing by leaps and bounds, thus gaining more power and influence, while the UMC church in the U.S. is hemorrhaging membership.
2016 may be Waterloo.
I found this article, though it is a year old, to be interesting: http://religionandpolitics.org/2015/06/02/will-same-sex-marriage-split-the-united-methodist-church/
Bookmark
It’s a good article, and this will be a real watershed for United Methodism.
Here is the total breakdown on the delegations from different areas going to GC2016. http://s3.amazonaws.com/Website_Properties/who-we-are/documents/gc2014-delegate-count.pdf
The summary is:
North Central 92
Northeastern 86
South Central 108
Southeastern 188
Western 30
Africa Central 42
Congo 138
West Africa 80
Central and
Southern Europe 14
Germany 6
Northern Europe
and Eurasia 20
Philippines 50
Concordat 10
Total 864
Africa Central, Congo, and West Africa are safe for a total of 260 delegates.
Northeastern, Western, Southern Europe, Northern Europe, Germany, and Concordate are NOT safe for a total of 166 delegates.
North Central, South Central, Southeastern, and Phillippines are MIDDLE for a total of 438 delegates.
My sense is that Slaughter and Hamilton have done great damage in North Central and it is probably NOT SAFE. That gives 258 not safe delegates.
A winning vote would be 433 delegates. If correct about north central, the homosexualists would need just 175 votes out of South Central, South Eastern, and the Phillippines.
We’ll know in 3 weeks.
Thanks for the info. In what way do you think Hamilton and Slaughter have done damage to the North Central?
My mistake in include Kansas in North Central. It actually is South Central, so the damage extends to those 2 jurisdictions.
The North Central is mostly not safe already. Slaughter has great influence. My guess is that almost the entire West Ohio delegation, which formerly was divided, will not be primarily in the not safe camp.
The South Central is in the middle, and Hamilton has an even greater voice in the Great Plains conference than Slaughter does in West Ohio. He is practically bishop except for the title.
I think what you’re looking at in most cases is rural vs. suburban-same as in secular politics.
The suburban churches, which tend to be more socially liberal in my experience, have a lot of money and influence. Urban churches are dying. Rural churches are usually smaller and less concentrated.
Is it really that big? I’m skeptical. Right now he’s building a $90 million addition to his already multi million dollar compound. Is there a way to find out if his money comes from the usual Soros-connected sources?
What we know now is that Olivetti is the newest lesbian bishop
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