Posted on 04/01/2017 11:09:53 AM PDT by marshmallow
The question remains to be answered...what were the traditions Paul spoke of?
Context will generally be the answer.
However, no catholic thus far has produced a list of the traditions he spoke of.
Nobody prays to Mary, the Other of Jesus
If you're catholic and have recited the Hail Mary...you've prayed to Mary.
The oldest complete codices only go back to the 4th century. This is also the time that the definitive canon was settled by Catholic bishops.
You may be interested in this article.
http://www.dts.edu/read/wallace-new-testament-manscript-first-century/
>>Unlike that missing list of Paul’s Traditions.<,
As oral tradition there would be no "list," but only the day to day teaching and practices that were universally held. You can find this by reading the Church Fathers. BTW, they do not include the writings of Luther or the Scofield Bible Commentary.
Which ECF?
The ones that agree with Roman Catholic doctrine or the ones that disagree with Roman Catholic doctrine?
I always find it interesting that for Mary to play such a prominent role in Roman Catholicism, she is scarcely mentioned after the Gospels and Acts 1.
It is also interesting that Paul doesn't carve out an exception for her regarding, "all have sinned". Something that deviates from his passage in Romans would require some additional explanation one would think.
You would also think that when he was writing we have one Mediator he would have also included Mary if...and if, that was what he was teaching and so widely believed as Roman Catholicism would have us to believe.
You may begin to see why so much of what Roman Catholics call Tradition is questioned by Christians.
Ah, but we do.
Peter notes that Paul's letters were considered Scripture in 2 Peter 3:16. That's a nice chunk of the NT noted as Scripture.
Catholics didn't formalize their canon until Trent.
Read the Hail Mary and see what it says.
Anti Catholics go on on this forum for days. Days. The hatred is ridiculous. The ignorance is worse.
Read the Hail Mary and see what it says.
Anti Catholics go on on this forum for days. Days. The hatred is ridiculous. The ignorance is worse.
Then why do we have bigger and bigger RCIA classes and numbers of adults converting to Catholicism?
Anti Catholics go on on this forum for days. Days. The hatred is ridiculous. The ignorance is worse.
I have.
I've studied how you're supposed to say the Rosary as well. The emphasis on Mary is overwhelming.
Catholics confuse correcting their views, or exposing their views,with the Truth as hatred. That I cannot help.
**The emphasis on Mary is overwhelming. **
If you have studied the Rosary then you know that all but two of the twenty mysteries used by Rosary sayers pertain to Christ’s life, correct?
Pew survey: Percentage of US Catholics drops and Catholicism is losing members faster than any denomination
https://cruxnow.com/church/2015/05/12/pew-survey-percentage-of-us-catholics-drops-and-catholicism-is-losing-members-faster-than-any-denomination/
Why the Catholic Church is losing Latin America, and how it’s trying to get it back
https://qz.com/342810/why-the-catholic-church-is-losing-latin-america-and-how-its-trying-to-get-it-back/
Say the "Our Father."
Say three "Hail Marys."
Say the "Glory be to the Father."
Announce the First Mystery; then say the "Our Father."
Say ten "Hail Marys," while meditating on the Mystery.
Say the "Glory be to the Father."
Announce the Second Mystery; then say the "Our Father."
Repeat 6 and 7 and continue with Third, Fourth and Fifth Mysteries in the same manner.
After the Rosary:
HAIL, HOLY QUEEN, Mother of Mercy, our life, our sweetness and our hope! To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve; to thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this vale of tears. Turn then, most gracious advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us, and after this our exile, show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary!
V. Pray for us, O Holy Mother of God.
R. That we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.
Let us pray. O GOD, whose only begotten Son, by His life, death, and resurrection, has purchased for us the rewards of eternal life, grant, we beseech Thee, that meditating upon these mysteries of the Most Holy Rosary of the Blessed Virgin Mary, we may imitate what they contain and obtain what they promise, through the same Christ Our Lord. Amen.
After each decade say the following prayer requested by the Blessed Virgin Mary at Fatima: "O my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell, lead all souls to Heaven, especially those who have most need of your mercy."
http://www.rosary-center.org/howto.htm#loaded
If I've counted correctly there are five "Our Father" prayers and 53 "Hail Mary" prayers not counting the one at the end.
You didn’t answer my question about 18 of the 20 mysteries of the Rosary being about the life of Christ! That’s what we meditate on as we say the Rosary.
Am I correct? Or do you even know?
You still have 54 prayers directed to Mary.
And the answer to my question about the mysteries being focused on Christ’s life?
It seems Roman Catholicism thinks if you include Jesus with Mary that makes it ok somehow.
But it's not Jesus and anyone.
It's about Him and only Him.
. We are saved only by Him and through belief in Him.
You refuse to answer my question about the Rosary being focused on the life of Christ, excepting two mysteries.
Good night.
If the Church would change its doctrine to suit the times then that church would have been a fraud from the beginning and the good father is himself a fraud.
Days of anti catholic ignorant hatred. You cannot have read the Hail Mary if you think we pray to her
Can you just drop it. You don’t like Catholicism. Ok we get it
Part of the problem - and why I try never to engage on the religious forums anymore unless it is Catholic caucus - is that we often here recognize names of past “offenders” in snark and so just assume they are being snarky. Some one last night here asked me a question I see which appears somewhat snarky to me. I could be wrong but I’m just ignoring it.
No. I answered your question. You don’t like the answer.
The prayer does start off with Hail Mary.....does it not? Is that not a direct address to her??
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