Posted on 07/06/2017 6:09:50 AM PDT by Salvation
Of course.
Shouldn’t the person have typed “altar”
He saw one whenever he looked in the mirror. And "presbyter" (elder) most assuredly is an office described in Scripture and instituted by the Apostles.
“He saw one whenever he looked in the mirror.
Paul was an Apostle, but never held the imaginary church office of priest.
” And “presbyter” (elder) most assuredly is an office described in Scripture and instituted by the Apostles.
And it never means priest.
Cc: daniel1212
The EASY way out is so far from Christ.
Christ is our example. He delighted to do the WILL of the Father. That WILL encompassed OBEDIANCE and RIGHTEOUSNESS. In His walk here He knew nothing of ease. He was rejected of men. A man of sorrows, acquainted with grief.
People who only want to see only Grace and Love fail to see that Christ will sit in JUDGEMENT of all man one day.
I am a recipient of his Grace and Love and am so thankful for it. ALL the more appreciated when I consider:
Revelation 6:16
They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!”
“WRATH of the Lamb!
True and False Disciples
MATTHEW 7:
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
Not if the boy was molested and the experience altered him.
But they served at the altar.
And that did not happen to all altar boys, so they really can’ be put into a general category. In fact are you aware that 50 percent of the claims against priests were false?
Excellent article.
Pope John Paul I died under very suspicious circumstances and was likely martyred.
Pope John Paul II survived an assassination attempt that should have killed him.
Pope John Paul said repeatedly that he would have died and that he survived only through Divine Intervention.
If true, that would mean 50% were true. And, as with many sexual crimes, if 90% were not reported/ignored then that is quite the problem.
“Paul was an Apostle, but never held the imaginary church office of priest.
” And “presbyter” (elder) most assuredly is an office described in Scripture and instituted by the Apostles.
And it never means priest.”
“Presbyter” is the English version of the Greek word “presbuteros,” and means “Priest.” Presbyters are NOT Presbyterians! That branch of Christianity didn’t get invented by man until the 16th Century. These priests in the New Testament were ordained by the laying on of hands and the holy sacrament of ordination.
Jesus created the priesthood. Jesus told His apostles to “Do THIS in His remembrance,” thus ordaining them forever as his priests. The word “THIS” means “THIS is my body which IS given for you, and “THIS cup which is poured out for you IS the new covenant in my blood.”
“30 of the first 33 Popes died as martyrs”
Pope John Paul I was probably martyred.
Pope John Paul II was almost martyred but saved only through Divine intervention.
“The bishops of the Church are typically surrounded by staff, often layers of staff, insulating them from the lay faithful, who have little hope of ever being able to contact or speak with him directly. There are titles, seats of honor, and regal vesture with insignias.”
Most Catholics never see or meet a Bishop or Cardinal in their entire lifetime.
Their only exposure to Bishop’s and Cardinals is a recording or video at mass asking for money.
“Pastors and parish priests, we are often protected by staff as well. We live in rectories that are often well-appointed. Unlike the faithful we serve, we have job security and few personal financial concerns. We are given food, shelter, health insurance, and retirement benefits, and the people of God are enormously generous with us. Staff stand ready to assist in our administrative tasks, and repair and clean our homes and churches. Many of us even have cooks and laundresses.”
This is completely untrue.
Parish priests, almost without exception, have extremely demanding jobs requiring long hours of service and assistance to their parishioners. Of course they have staff to help them. But almost all of the work in the parish and almost all the decisions are made by the volunteer, lay parishioners who work every day at their jobs and caring for their families.
Parish priests and pastors are heroes in a difficult, often anti-Catholic environment. I have heard them say they can not wear their collar in public because insults, abuse and sometimes physical attacks. Most do wear their collar, however, and are proud to proclaim their faith despite the attacks.
The media regularly attacks priests and dishonestly portrays them as pedophiles, bigots and so many other bad things.
“Priests may have become soft on account of the comforts that have been extended to us. Our comfortable lives have made some of us soft and given us the sense that we have too much to lose. Unlike St. Paul, we can hardly bear the slightest critique or scorn.”
That is totally false.
Priests are strong, courageous, caring and doing an extremely valuable job. No one wants them to starve or be homeless. We love and respect them and want to help them.
“Presbyter” is the English version of the Greek word “presbuteros,” and means “Priest.”
And it never means priest in Greek.
“Presbyters are NOT Presbyterians!
Actually, some are :-)
” These priests in the New Testament were ordained by the laying on of hands and the holy sacrament of ordination.
Not once.
“Jesus created the priesthood.
He did not.
“Jesus told His apostles to “Do THIS in His remembrance,” thus ordaining them forever as his priests.
He never ordained a single priest.
You’ve just demonstrated the dangers of eisegesis
Seems there were a lot of altered boys...
That's what happens when you let a priest study the bible for you...They lie to you and you believe it because they are 'priests'...
The rates of child molestation in non-Catholic churches is far higher. Check it out.
/s
I bet your priests can outdo ours on cocaine fueled gay orgies. That Vatican bunch can party with the best of them.
Actually, a Orthodox historian scholar states, "the word "priesthood" is itself a corruption of the Greek "presbyter." (John Anthony McGuckin, "The Orthodox Church: An Introduction to its History, Doctrine, and Spiritual Culture)
Russell Jonas Grigaitis (O.F.S.) (while yet trying to defend the use of "priest"), informs, "The Greek word for this office is...[hiereus], which can be literally translated into Latin as sacerdos [as for ko^he^n]. First century Christians [actually the Holy Spirit who inspired writers] felt that their special type of hiereus (sacerdos) was so removed from the original that they gave it a new name, presbuteros (presbyter). Unfortunately, sacerdos didn't evolve into an English word, but the word priest [from old English "preost"] took on its definition." (http://grigaitis.net/weekly/2007/2007-04-27.html)
It is true that the English word "priest" is a etymological corruption of the Greek presbuteros, being referred to in Old English (around 700 to 1000 AD) as "preostas" or "preost," and finally resulting in the modern English "priest."
p>The problem is that "priest." is also used for Old Testament "kohen," ("priests" in English), denoting a separate sacerdotal (sacrificing) class of persons, which which the Holy Spirit distinctively uses for “hiereus”/“archiereus" ("priest" and "high priest" as in Heb. 4:15; 10:11) in the New Testament (over 280 times total). However the Holy Spirit never uses these distinctive words for NT pastors, but instead He terms presbuteros=seniorand episkopos=superintendent, which denote those in the same office. (Titus 1:5-7: Acts 20:17,28; Phil. 1:1)
Translating both "hiereus" and "presbuteros" as "priest" means that the distinction the Holy Spirit provided by never using the distinctive term hiereus for NT presbuteros (and never manifesting them as having the Catholic unique sacerdotal function) is lost.
All believers are called to sacrifice (Rm. 12:1; 15:16; Phil. 2:17; 4:18; Heb. 13:15,16; cf. 9:9) and all constitute the only priesthood (hieráteuma) in the NT church, that of all believers, (1Pt. 2:5,9; Re 1:6; 5:10; 20:6). But nowhere are NT pastors distinctively titled hiereus, and the idea of the NT presbuteros being a distinctive class titled "hiereus" was a later development, and Catholicism attempts to justify using the same distinctive word for both OT "ko^he^n" and NT presbuteros via an imposed functional equivalence, supposing NT presbuteros engaged in a unique sacrificial ministry as their primary function. Yet neither presbuteros or episkopos are described as having any unique sacrificial function, and hiereus (as archiereus=chief priests) is used in distinction to elders in such places as Lk. 22:66; Acts 22:5. Catholic writer Greg Dues in "Catholic Customs & Traditions, a popular guide," states, "Priesthood as we know it in the Catholic church was unheard of during the first generation of Christianity, because at that time priesthood was still associated with animal sacrifices in both the Jewish and pagan religions." "When the Eucharist came to be regarded as a sacrifice [after Rome's theology], the role of the bishop took on a priestly dimension. By the third century bishops were considered priests. Presbyters or elders sometimes substituted for the bishop at the Eucharist. By the end of the third century people all over were using the title 'priest' (hierus in Greek and sacerdos in Latin) for whoever presided at the Eucharist." (Catholic Customs & Traditions) Moreover, instead of dispensing bread as part of their ordained function, and offering the Lord's supper as a sacrifice for sin, neither of which NT pastors are ever described as doing in the life of the church (Acts onward, which writings show us how the NT church understood the gospels), instead the primary work of NT pastors is that of prayer and preaching. (Act 6:3,4; 2 Tim.4:2)) by which they “feed the flock” (Acts 20:28; 1Pt. 5:2) ) for the word is called spiritual "milk," (1Co. 3:22; 1Pt. 1:22) and "meat," (Heb. 5:12-14) what is said to "nourish" the souls of believers, and believing it is how the lost obtain life in themselves. (1 Timothy 4:6; ;Acts 15:7-9; cf. Psalms 19:7) In contrast, nowhere in the record of the NT church is the Lord's supper described as spiritual food, and the means of obtaining spiritual life in oneself. Thus the Catholic practice of using the same term for Old Testaments priests and for NT pastors, thereby making the latter into being a separate sacerdotal class of believers, distinctive from the only priesthood in the NT church (all believers) is not Scriptural or justifiable. Instead of using the same term for Old Testaments priests and for NT pastors, the latter should be called elders or overseers or equivalents which correlate to the original meaning and keeps the distinction the Holy Spirit made evident. In response to a query on this issue, the web site of International Standard Version (not my preferred translation) states, No Greek lexicons or other scholarly sources suggest that "presbyteros" means "priest" [in the OT sense] instead of "elder". The Greek word is equivalent to the Hebrew ZAQEN, which means "elder", and not priest. You can see the ZAQENIM described in Exodus 18:21-22 using some of the same equivalent Hebrew terms as Paul uses in the GK of 1&2 Timothy and Titus. Note that the ZAQENIM are NOT priests (i.e., from the tribe of Levi) but are rather men of distinctive maturity that qualifies them for ministerial roles among the people. Therefore the NT equivalent of the ZAQENIM cannot be the Levitical priests. The Greek "presbyteros" (literally, the comparative of the Greek word for "old" and therefore translated as "one who is older") thus describes the character qualities of the "episkopos". The term "elder" would therefore appear to describe the character, while the term "overseer" (for that is the literal rendering of "episkopos") connotes the job description. To sum up, far from obfuscating the meaning of "presbyteros", our rendering of "elder" most closely associates the original Greek term with its OT counterpart, the ZAQENIM. ...we would also question the fundamental assumption that you bring up in your last observation, i.e., that "the church has always had priests among its ordained clergy". We can find no documentation of that claim. (http://isvbible.com/catacombs/elders.htm)
You mean watching the same play, with prescribed largely perfunctory prayers and responses, ritual readings, and a 10 minute sermonette by "priests" in ostentatious garments is not what you see in the record of the NT testament church (rhetorical ?)
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