Skip to comments.When Orthodox Jews oppose followers of Jesus
Posted on 06/11/2019 8:45:31 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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So what about Hasidic Jews?
In any case, I am wary of Talmudic Jews thanks to their tendency from that book to practice their equivalent of Taqqiya, and aside from that, I have a lot of disgust towards the Talmud after they depicted God the Father in Bava Metzia 59b where they, I don’t know, depicted him, despite his being an omnipotent and omniscient being, as being so dumb and weak that he not only lost a debate to a rabbi, but that an entire group of them had restrained him after Mt. Sinai to such an extent that he’s not allowed to do ANYTHING without a majority vote, make him weaker and dumber than a bunch of mortals in other words. I’d argue that was even more of a blasphemous teaching than even the tasteless depictions of Mary and Jesus.
Thanks for the answer about Hasidic Jews, so they’re fully Jewish by your standards. Got it.
“So do not convert to Judaism. Are there are enough issues among Christians to keep warily occupied ?”
Oh believe me, even without the issues I have with the Talmud, I have zero intention of converting to Judaism. Catholicism to the grave. But the teachings in the Talmud do nonetheless leave me extremely wary about those who practice the religion, especially with their having their equivalent of Taqqiya via using deception to manipulate non-Jews. Very unlikely for me to make friends unless they’ve proven themselves extremely trustworthy, and even the few I do have I keep arms length at (and just as an FYI, I’m also distant towards Muslims for the exact same reason, so don’t think I’m just singling out Jews on this. Any religion that condones and advocates for lying specifically to take down their enemies, and not by self-defense if I must add, is untrustworthy in my book.). Let me put it another way: If you encountered a person who not only lies to you a lot because you’re not of their group, but the religion they hold to encourages said lying, would you have any reason to trust them?
And honestly, I think Bava Metzia 59b’s treatment of God the Father’s more than enough for me to just want to see the Talmud gone. That passage, if I must be blunt, was far more blasphemous towards God than even the mockery they did with Mary and Jesus.
My experience with chrstians on this forum is that they simply assume that chrstianity is true. They don't really have a reason, or even need a reason. It's simply true because it must be true; it's not being true is simply unthinkable.
I can't believe I used to think like this myself.
Nope, just being a realist. And I’m not anti-Semitic. Just because I have reasons to distrust the Talmud doesn’t mean I’m anti-Semitic. I don’t wish death upon Jews, that’s what anti-Semitism would require.
And yes, I know Taqqiyah is an Arabic word, but I’m not sure of how else to describe it. And there’s a big difference between lying to protect someone from people trying to kill that someone, and lying specifically to take down an enemy group of people, something that God NEVER condoned, period. The latter is what the Talmud promoted. If you have any other terms that specifically describe the aspect that Taqqiyah embodies, I’m all ears.
Yes, except most religious texts, even the pagan ones, do NOT make a deity out to be weaker or dumber than mortals. In fact, most if not all religions generally make gods to be superior to mortals in EVERY manner. The Talmud actually DID do that by having God lose a debate to a mortal, and even be restrained by mortals to such an extent that he can’t do anything without a majority vote. That’s not a sin of commission or omission, that’s literally what’s shown.
Actually, I have befriended Jews. Some autistic people I know who are friends are in fact Jewish, at least in ethnicity (one of them’s non-Kosher, though).
And as a bit of a clarifying point, even the instances in the pagan myths regarding mortals somehow outwitting or even harming gods, they generally only end up living to regret it... if they are even left alive at all.
RE: Orthodox Jews must oppose “followers of J*sus.” The “followers of J*sus” believe the Torah has been superseded and replaced with something else
Not necessarily true. many Christians believe that Jesus IS the fulfillment of the Torah and the Prophecies. If as you said, the Torah has been superceded, why would followers of Jesus still consider the Torah the word of God today, study it, meditate on it and take it seriously?
However, right now, I do have wariness especially regarding the Talmud, so while I do have friends who are Jewish, I’m keeping them at arms length after I learned about their doctrine on lying to gentiles.
RE: My experience with chrstians on this forum is that they simply assume that chrstianity is true. They don’t really have a reason, or even need a reason
Maybe in this forum (questionable statement as well), but the reason why Christians believe that Christianity is true is not based on an assumption. It is based on historical EVIDENCE that Jesus ROSE FROM THE DEAD as written in the gospels.
If Jesus was merely crucified and died, then Christians are all delusional and believing a lie perpetrated on them a thousand years ago. Which means that roughly one third of the world’s population are being deceived.
Yeah, agreed. If anyone superceded and replaced the Old Testament with something else, it was the Talmudic Jews and the Talmud. Even some books within the Talmud made very clear that one should observe the Talmud’s tenants over that of the Torah.
And use common sense, if Jesus superceded the Old Testament, wouldn’t he have called a bonfire to burn up all copies of the Old Testament? That he didn’t do so indicates he STILL viewed it as relevant to his teaching.
Jesus believed that the Old Testament was divinely inspired, the veritable Word of God.
He said, The Scripture cannot be broken (John 10:35). He referred to Scripture as the commandment of God (Matthew 15:3) and as the Word of God (Mark 7:13).
He also indicated that it was indestructible: Until Heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the law, until all is accomplished (Matthew 5:18).
When dealing with the people of his day, whether it was with the disciples or religious rulers, Jesus constantly referred to the Old Testament:
Have you not read that which was spoken to you by God? (Matthew 22:31);
Yea; and have you never read, Out of the mouth of infants and nursing babes thou has prepared praise for thyself? (Matthew 21:16, citing Psalm 8:2); and
Have you not read what David did? (Matthew 12:3).
Examples could be multiplied to demonstrate that Jesus was conversant with the Torah, the prophets, the Psalms and their contents. He quoted from it often and he trusted it totally.
Throughout the Gospels, we find Jesus confirming many of the accounts in the Torah, such as the destruction of Sodom and the death of Lots wife (Luke 17:29, 32) the murder of Abel by his brother Cain (Luke 11:51), the calling of Moses (Mark 12:26), and the manna given in the wilderness (John 6:3151).
The list of examples goes on, and the evidence is clear: Jesus saw the Torah as being Gods Word, and his attitude toward it was nothing less than total trust.
Many people want to accept Jesus, yet they reject a large portion of the Laws and the Prophets.
Either Jesus knew what he was talking about, or he didnt. If a person believes in Jesus Christ, he should be consistent and believe that the Torah, the prophets and their accounts are correct.
Jesus said he came to FULFILL the law, not abolish it.
I know, I if anything was backing you up.
If by "reject a large portion of the law" do you mean the following:
"For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ." John 5:45
"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law (of Moses), but by the faith of Jesus Christ, ....that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." - Gal. 2:16
Let me give you an example -— I have spoken to many people who call themselves Christians who claim that Jesus’ new commandment is all about “loving” others.
How does that apply in practice, one might ask? Well, take homosexuals for example, it is unloving to condemn their lifestyle because Jesus never mentioned homosexuality even once in the gospels.
What about the law of Moses, one might ask? Well, they tell me that it has been superseded by His command to love one another.
In other words, the moral law of Moses has been replaced by one law — DO THE MOST LOVING THING.
If you love everyone ( gays included ), you have to bless their desire to express their love for people of the same sex as Jesus commanded.
THAT IS WHAT I MEAN when I said : “Many people want to accept Jesus, yet they reject a large portion of the Laws and the Prophets.”
Thanks for the clear explanation! I agree that many in the church are being deceived because they equate agape love with license. For those who say only the words/teaching of Jesus apply, they negate all the writers of the NT who were inspired by the Holy Spirit to teach and preach among other things -- what we read in the NT. Paul, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit wrote Romans 1 where it is clear that homosexual behavior is a vile sin.
Anyway, thanks for taking the time to reply.
This time and age will soon end. Maranatha!
Messianics are not “Jews,” but they definitely are Israel.
Jews are followers of Rabbis and the Talmud, but not followers of Tanakh.
Christianity and Judaism are both far afield of the Gospel taught by Yeshua.
They’re both completely man made religion.
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