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Catholicism made me Protestant
First Things ^ | 9/11/2019 | Onsi A. Kamel

Posted on 09/11/2019 10:52:15 AM PDT by Gamecock

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To: Chainmail

Shame on you! You accuse him of being insecure in his Catholicism because he continued in biblical scholarship after converting to it, when his faith was obviously deep. One with deep faith, studies the Word all the more, as he desires to become more intimately acquainted with our LORD THROUGH His Word. He IS the Word, after all. You have the audacity to ridicule his faith because it does not align with yours. That is the height of arrogance.


61 posted on 09/11/2019 3:24:22 PM PDT by Flaming Conservative ((Pray without ceasing))
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To: fidelis

Romans 3:28

and

Galatians 2:16


62 posted on 09/11/2019 3:34:55 PM PDT by ReformationFan
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To: fidelis

Does not Ephesians 2:8-9, do just that? And following, verse 10 -— “For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them”. The works which he here describes, are Christ’s works. We are HIS workmanship. It is not OUR works, but HIS.
And please forgive me. My first post to you, on reflection, seems too sharp. I should have ordered my remarks in a kinder fashion.


63 posted on 09/11/2019 3:41:54 PM PDT by Flaming Conservative ((Pray without ceasing))
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To: Petrosius

Christ can and does forgive us directly without going to a minister or Roman priest first


64 posted on 09/11/2019 4:29:38 PM PDT by Mom MD
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To: Gamecock


65 posted on 09/11/2019 4:38:37 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory !!)
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To: Flaming Conservative; Reagan Disciple
Well, no: the gent spouting all of his reasons for leaving the Catholic faith is annoyingly arrogant. His brief self-instruction suddenly convinces him that a billion or so Catholics who have been thrilled with our connection to Our Lord for 2,000 years are now all wrong and he, magnificent he, is right.

Not only that, he couldn't wait to post his wonderful rightness before the whole world to tell us all how wrong we all are.

Poppycock.

66 posted on 09/11/2019 5:21:36 PM PDT by Chainmail (Remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence)
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To: Gamecock

“Catholics taught me to love the Church.”

First mistake. Placing “the (RC) Church” above God — very, very bad.


67 posted on 09/11/2019 5:28:35 PM PDT by MayflowerMadam ("The best way to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly." A. Lincoln)
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To: Gamecock

The Holy Spirit made me leave Catholicism.


68 posted on 09/11/2019 5:28:41 PM PDT by Old Yeller (Auto-correct has become my worst enema.)
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To: ZinGirl
I got the silly idea from your post. You’re the one who said salvation can be lost thru sin. Perhaps rephrase your thoughts more clearly next time.

To say that we can loose our salvation through sin does not imply that we regain it by earning it back. Its restoration is God's gracious act. Our need for repentance does not change this. Do we earn our salvation through our faith?

69 posted on 09/11/2019 5:31:12 PM PDT by Petrosius
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To: Mom MD
Christ can and does forgive us directly without going to a minister or Roman priest first

“Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.”
If you have a problem with this, take it up with Jesus. That is unless you want to put the man-made traditions of a 16th century German monk above the Bible.
70 posted on 09/11/2019 5:36:51 PM PDT by Petrosius
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To: Mom MD
Nothing is sadder than someone trying to earn what they never can when God has already freely given it to them.

Yep. How much is enough. You can never have assurance. Oh wait, let's make up Purgatory to give them a feeling of a safety net, if they don't accumulate enough points to get into Heaven. The living can pay for masses that will give them enough points to spring them from Purgatory.
71 posted on 09/11/2019 5:38:49 PM PDT by Old Yeller (Auto-correct has become my worst enema.)
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To: fidelis

“(except in James 2:24 where it says we are NOT saved by faith alone)”

That is the only occurrence of the phrase “faith alone” I have come across in the Scriptures.


72 posted on 09/11/2019 5:40:55 PM PDT by SharpRightTurn (Chuck Schumer--giving pond scum everywhere a bad name.)
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To: Antoninus
Tedious, eye-bleeding reading. Yikes. First Things sure has gone downhill publishing word-salad confessional-lit like this.

Like all the voluminous copy/paste malarkey Catholic FReepers throw into threads to try to justify their superstitious religion.
73 posted on 09/11/2019 5:42:24 PM PDT by Old Yeller (Auto-correct has become my worst enema.)
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To: ZinGirl
Salvation IS a gift but it can be lost thru sin? Soooo...you have to earn it back?

It's impossible to be sinless. That was the purpose of the law.
74 posted on 09/11/2019 5:45:55 PM PDT by Old Yeller (Auto-correct has become my worst enema.)
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To: Petrosius; Mom MD
If you have a problem with this, take it up with Jesus. That is unless you want to put the man-made traditions of a 16th century German monk above the Bible.

The problem you run into is the unanimous non-unanimous opinions of the ECFs on this issue...among others.

75 posted on 09/11/2019 5:47:16 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: Mercat
Why? Say the right words and only then be saved?

Man is dead in his/her sins. He can't save himself. The Holy Spirit must regenerate his heart.
76 posted on 09/11/2019 5:48:43 PM PDT by Old Yeller (Auto-correct has become my worst enema.)
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To: Petrosius

Do not accept the Mark of the Beast when commanded to you. Repeat: Do not accept the Mark of the Beast when commanded to you, even if accompanied by signs and lying wonders.


77 posted on 09/11/2019 5:53:11 PM PDT by MHGinTN (A dispensation perspective is a powerful tool for discernment)
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To: Chainmail
His brief self-instruction suddenly convinces him that a billion or so Catholics who have been thrilled with our connection to Our Lord for 2,000 years are now all wrong and he, magnificent he, is right.

By that logic, there are just as many Muslims.

13Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Matthew 7:13-14
78 posted on 09/11/2019 5:53:53 PM PDT by Old Yeller (Auto-correct has become my worst enema.)
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To: Petrosius
Now the works of the flesh are obvious: immorality, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, rivalry, jealousy, outbursts of fury, acts of selfishness, dissensions, factions, occasions of envy, drinking bouts, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. (Galatians 5:19-21)

The Greek behind this indicates those who practice these...that is, that is their life. A Christian is not going to practice these.

The NASB renders verse 21 as those who practice such things.

The Greek word used is πράσσω conveying the meaning of:properly, the active process in performing (accomplishing) a deed, and implying what is done as a regular practice – i.e. a routine or habit (cf. R. Trench).

It's not a single act but a lifestyle. Knowing the Greek helps clarify this passage.

IF a single act of sin would nullify your salvation then Paul is in trouble as well as he noted he struggled with something.

Of course there are also the many parables of our Lord that warn about the judgment of one's works. And as you said: "The Scriptures don't contradict themselves." Therefore the false idea of "faith alone" is disproven by Scripture.

Yet, Jesus told the people He met to believe in Him.

When Scripture speaks of judging the works of people it is in consideration of rewards in Heaven...not losing or keeping eternal life.

When Jesus met with Nicodemus what did He tell him?

Believe in Me and do x,y and z and you may inherit eternal life?

No.

He said this:

9Nicodemus said to Him, “How can these things be?”

10Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things?

11“Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony.

12“If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?

13“No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.

14“As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up;

15so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.

16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

17“For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.

18“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19“This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil.

20“For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.

21“But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”

John 3:9-21 NASB

I again will ask, IF it is faith + works, how many "good" works do you have to do?

How do you know you've done the right ones?

79 posted on 09/11/2019 6:05:59 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: fidelis

Fact is, of course, the word ‘alone’ was added by Luther, a word that is not there in the original Greek.

Another fact is that no Hebrew writer would consider ‘faith’ to be simple assent, but rather placing completely the weight of life and wholeness on Jesus Christ and his work. All the heroes of faith in Hebrews were commended because their faith produced action. Otherwise, we would never have heard of them.

The problem with protestants’ radically separating justification from sanctification, IMO,is that it is a Greek-style logical/analytical construct that a holistic Hebrew wouldn’t abide (see James). The problem with Roman Catholic position, IMO, is that it hopelessly intermingles the two in a way that leads to a diminished certainty of salvation moment-by-moment.


80 posted on 09/11/2019 6:08:39 PM PDT by Chaguito
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