Posted on 10/30/2019 10:56:48 AM PDT by Salvation
“I asked first”
“I asked first!”
We were having a nice debate, responding to each others comments from the context of the replies, and then you got off debating when it came to replying to my post 15, and asked a question instead of continuing to debate.
I should have asked you to comment on my post 15, instead of asking you if you agreed with it.
That was an unfair question, so I am changing It to “would you like to comment on my post 15?”
As you can see by my last comment to you on this thread, I am continuing our debate.
If you don’t want to continue it, fine with me.
That was two days ago.
Not that I'm a stickler, but I don't see this going anywhere. So I'm going for apple pie and vanilla ice cream. But thank you for being so pleasant about it, I can appreciate that.
Well we were debating.
It wasn’t about q and a, it was about Jesus and Christianity.
I preferred continuing the debate.
No problem.
Pie and ice-cream should work...
Perhaps some day you may want to comment on the text of my #15...
I have learned from long experience that discussions can go around in circles forever, ending up nowhere, if the participants never define their terms. See, I did learn something on Free Republic!
I'm through with the apple pie and ice cream. Now I have to get ready for church, the All Saints Day Mass. I will be doing the reading from Rev.7 and I John 3. And singing --- I like that a lot.
So it's your feast day. Happy feast day, dear saint.
Actually none of what you described was happening with our debating until you got off subject.
Nice to see a Catholic on this thread mention Jesus Christ.
Although it appears this mass is all about the Catholic Mary, not Jesus.
I always use easily defined terms and words.
I notice that Catholicism has it’s own “language,” using words that need defining.
“So it’s your feast day”
No it isn’t because it is not a Christian feast day but a Catholic feast day all about Mary.
That comment would be considered personal and mindreading, but I won’t FR mail the RM.
I prefer leaving up guideline violations posted to me.
Have a nice Mary Mass!
Such people do not actually look stuff up (like in the Catechism), nor do they ask an actual, factual question (like, is the Mass mostly about Mary? Is today a Marian feast day?) ---- and why you won't get Catholic info from a FReeper Catholic, I do not know.
BTW to answer the two questions you didn't ask:
(1) No, the Mass is not mostly about Mary, and
(2) No, today is not a Marian feast day.
I'm going to be out all day, but I will check in later to make further corrections. It's an endless job, but somebody's got to do it.
Not me. Show some examples.
“Such people do not actually look stuff up”
Not me.
I have been studying Catholicism for over 30 years.
“ask an actual, factual question”
Doesn't make sense. Oh maybe it does.
Maybe a question like “Why has Catholicism said through it's leaders that Mary can give salvation with out Jesus.”
That hasn't been answered sufficiently in the past when numerous quotes from popes have been posting proving it. And no, "their have been some bad popes" is not an explaination. Maybe look it up?
I don't actually have any questions for you.
But have given you facts to ponder and talk about like post #15 but you decline to comment on it.
“why you won't get Catholic info from a FReeper Catholic, I do not know.”
Many RF posters have spent years and even decades in Catholicism and have exposed false teachings.
We get lots of info from FR Catholics just by seeing their posts. Like the statement
“Jesus was a Catholic”
***is the Mass mostly about Mary***
The mass advertised as that, there is no mention of Jesus.
***I will check in later to make further corrections.***
You have made no corrections that I can see, just posted your opinions.
Christians know and do this:
There is nothing/nobody that needs to be between Christians and Jesus.We do not waste time un-Biblically praying to saints and Mary to communicate with Jesus.We are encouraged to come boldly to the Throne of Grace.
Right into the presence of Jesus.
The subtle cloaked condescending arrogance in your post has not gone unnoticed.
For instance: you stated that the Mass referenced in the original post here, is "all about Mary, not Jesus."
That is never true, even on a Marian feast day. This is something you would know if you ever (1) looked up a basic description of what that Mass *is*, or if you ever (2) asked a Catholic.
In an ordinary Novus Ordo Mass, Mary is mentioned so briefly (in the "Confiteor" or "I confess") that you would literally miss it if you sneezed. And --- if the Confiteor is omitted, as it often is--- Mary is generally not mentioned at Mass at all:
I confess to Almighty GodThat's 2 seconds (I just timed myself on the italicized words)--- 2 seconds out of an hour-long Mass. Almost all the prayers of the Mass address God that Father; and all those that don't, are addressing either God the Son (Jesus Christ) or God the Holy Spirit. Only the Trinity is adored: the prayers are to God. And the principal Person who does something in the Mass --- the one who does the central actions --- is Jesus Christ.
and to you,
my brothers and sisters,
that I have greatly sinned,
in my thoughts and in my words,
in what I have done
and in what I have failed to do,
through my fault,
through my fault,
through my most grievous fault;
therefore I ask blessed Mary ever-Virgin,
all the Angels and Saints,
and you, my brothers and sisters,
to pray for me to the Lord our God.
Since you have stated that you are uninterested in learning anything by asking questions, our conversation has run to its natural end. You may fare better with somebody else. I hope you do.
(First I made no mistakes)
Well of course.
After years of Catholic un-Biblical indoctrination into the false teachings of Catholicism they would see exposing false teachings as "mistakes."
Do teachers and nuns still hit children on the back of the hand with a ruler if they don't go along with false teachings?
Actually the description would be more accurate if you added an expert of "false teachings" on Catholicism as well as an "expert" on Catholicism
'...you stated that the Mass referenced in the original post here, is "all about Mary, not Jesus."'
Well the excerpt of the article NEVER mentions Jesus, but does mention (the Catholic) Mary.
The article has:
Two graphics -- each with 2 pious looking images of women -- probably to depict Mary or the "Our Ladies" mentioned in the article.I hope this helps you see why Christians would think this mass is not about Jesus but rather about Mary and some other Ladies.Mentions of two great "Marion" feasts
Mention of Our Lady of the Immaculate Conception
Mentions of Our Lady of Guadalupe
Mentions of Our Blessed Mother (who is the "Patroness of the United States" --- ??)
Mentions of ...we all love Our Lady; she unites us as does any good mother. (She is not our mother, "we" are not Jesus) Although for us born again Christians Jesus lives in us and we live in Jesus.
Mention of Mary as the great evangelizer and unifier (??)
Mention of mother of God
Mentions of la Morenita and la Inmaculada
Mention again of Our Lady of Guadalupe (who spoke to St. Juan Diego ... Is that Mary too?) No, an apparition; un-Biblical BTW.
...Mentions of devoted to Our Lady of Guadalupe (another mention of this apparition)
Mention of Our Lady is indeed the great unifier. -- Doing what actually Jesus does. She may have done some of that while alive on earth, but not now.
Archbishop Cordileone ...In times of deep division in the Church, he points to Our Lady... (Why not point to Jesus? He is the best One that can work on this problem.)
Another "Our Lady" mentioned.
And for this thread, there are two keywords: blessedvirginmary; catholic
You'd think another keyword that should be there would be Jesus.
It's not about how many times Mary is mentioned in the mass, but the fact that in this article there is no mention of Jesus but multiple ones about Mary and her many apparent "incarnations."
"the principal Person who does something in the Mass --- the one who does the central actions --- is Jesus Christ. "
Well that is good, I guess.
Jesus being brought down from heaven by a Priest and inserted into the wafer...well that's a bit un-scriptural un-Biblical.
"Since you have stated that you are uninterested in learning anything by asking questions"
LOL I never stated that.
I don't have much expectations of getting Christian Biblical answers from Catholics as there is quite a possibility of getting answers made up by Catholicism rather than from Biblical Scriptures.
Having been conversing and debating with Catholics for over 5 decades, I have experienced much of what Catholicism answers with.
I depend on information backed up by Biblical Scriptures instead.
Our conversation coming to an end is fine with me; especially since our debating essestially ended with your not commenting on my post 15, and apparently ignoring it's content.
Which was quite uplifting and Biblically.
In fact so much so that I will end this post with a bit of that content:
There is nothing/nobody that needs to be between Christians and Jesus.It's that simple.We are encouraged to come boldly to the Throne of Grace.
Right into the presence of Jesus.
We do not need to try to get there through the Catholic Mary, or even the real Mary of the Bible, or any dead (physically) person.
God sent Jesus to be the mediator between us and God the Father.
I would exhort you to try it sometime.
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