Posted on 04/09/2023 9:10:17 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
“You believe that what St. Paul and St. Peter BOTH wrote in their epistle to the churches are NOT Inspired by the Holy Spirit, nd are mere human opinions?”
See post # 36
One of the common errors here is that the American Revolution is a Revolution, like the French or Bolshevik revolutions. It was a Reformation, an attempt at first to convince the Crown to return to its first principles, much as Luther attempted to convince the church to return to its first principles. The Crown, like the church, reacted by crushing the reformation by force, which leads to the violent split, whether in 16th century Germany or 18th century America.
Today, MAGA is a similar reformation, and is being attacked with force by the deep state which it attempts to reform. If history is any indication, the split again will come, covered in blood.
Exactly. You have to read the words of those two with understanding of the world they lived in. They were -inspired- documents, NOT mormon golden plates, or the Koran that they think is exactly what god said, word for word.
Paul couldn’t imagine a Stalin and if he could, he would have never shrugged and said to do what they said. He woulda followed the words of Jesus and said sell your cloak and buy a sword had he known about them.
There is no biblical duty to obey a despotic leader.
Actually those are inanimate objects.
The “king” of the United States is WE THE PEOPLE
As one of the Catholic posters said, when Gods law conflicts with a leaders law, you follow Gods law according to the Catechism.
It would be nearly impossible to be an obedient Christian and carefully observe the laws of a despot. So many evil leaders laws force you into evil. Doctors being required to do sex changes and abortions comes to mind.
The Bible says that God appoints the decision makers over each nation.
Divine providence is what established the U.S. God chose the king of the u.s.
It’s WE THE PEOPLE.
Any other claim would have to also state than ANY King that arose out of any new nation wasn’t in standing with scripture because many of them overthrew/ conquered other kingdoms.
And the Bible doesn’t contradict itself
What set the Geneva Bible apart from other official English versions of the time were its marginal study notes, which were heavily Reformed Protestant and even anti-monarchical in tone and content, McDermott said.
“These notes are at times incendiary. At times they advocate for the just overthrow of a king,” he said, noting that the biblical text sometimes translates the word king as tyrant.
For that reason, the Geneva Bible fell out of favor with King James I, who convened a committee of scholars to begin working on a new English translation.
Paul could imagine a Caligula, Claudius, or Nero, since he lived under all three. What he meant concerning being subject to authority is demonstrated by his own actions, which lead to his beheading.
Britan
Nump
Very good summary and history.
Nope. Tried working within their systems for decades, then tried to separate.
Bookmark
There are church leaders using and will use Romans 13 to more or less teach that if you do not register or turn in your guns and “large capacity” magazines if the government tells you to then you are sinning and going to hell.
Bttt
Yes, in its regulated ameliorated form in that very labor-intensive slave-state (ANE and Rome and Greece) and competitive agrarian world context which the frontier Hebrews had to endure and compete with the rest, for whom slavery was an integral established institution, and 1st century Christians where in no position to change the system.
But slavery was quite different from that as typically described in the antebellum South (USA) as is typically understood, and with no recourse in case of mistreatment, from which there was no escape to freedom rather than freedom being given in case of debilitating injury caused by the owner, such as the loss of a tooth, or the lack of care for a wife, and an escaped slave was not to be returned to his master, but was free to go wherever he choose. See here.
And I think that "Thou shalt not deliver unto his master the servant which is escaped from his master unto thee: He shall dwell with thee, even among you, in that place which he shall choose in one of thy gates, where it liketh him best: thou shalt not oppress him" (Deuteronomy 23:15-16) may be applicable in principle to both a mature son who wishes to leave the family farm when other help is there, as well as the American revolution.
Enough with your liberal revisionism. What Paul penned in his 13 epistles is as inspired of God as what Peter wrote, which also commands,
Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord’s sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well. For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men: (1 Peter 2:13-15)Note that I like all that the civil powers increasingly command, which are more legislative than the Pharisees.
No, the conditional command to submit to authority is also given by the Lord Jesus, as well as Peter.
They say unto him, Cæsar’s. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Cæsar the things which are Cæsar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s. (Matthew 22:21)
Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. (Matthew 23:1-3)
Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord’s sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well. For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men: (1 Peter 2:13-15)Which flows from the OT. (Dt. 17:8-13)
Two, the Bible did not command someone in Nazi Germany to obey Hitler, or a Cambodian to obey Pol Pot.
It did just as toward Cæsar, meaning when not in conflict with what God commanded. Obey the speed limit, but do not commit abortion.
Well...
1 Corinthians 7:12
I (not the Lord) say to the rest of you: If a brother has a wife who is an unbeliever and she is willing to live with him, he must not abandon her.
Now our FR Catholics are triggered.
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