Posted on 09/19/2001 5:15:08 AM PDT by Ted
If you've not heard of the Bible code books/studies it is some interesting stuff. It's far more important to base one's faith on the Scriptures as written in plain text, IMO. Take it or leave it, click on the link above. I thought it worthwhile to read through once.
Folks, I have an mtg I have to run to, and won't be able to reply to anything. This really was a FWIW post, take it or leave it.
Regards.
You can get the same results using the same methods on the text of War and Peace or the Encyclopedia Britannica.
Notice they are selling a book and talk about subscriptions - somebody is making money off this.
The value of the Bible and other religious writings is in pondering the wisdom of the text, not matching up letters to look for clues.
Easier to read news releases - many of them say Iraq may have involvement with the bombings.
Please note that the words of Scripture are the same words used in secular writing; the same consonant/vowel relationships and frequency counts still exist in Scripture as they do in ordinary writing. In short, you are looking at a group of letters and seeking individual words using arbitrary rules.
Ever since the first Bible
codes were announced,
skeptics have been
saying, "Oh, well, you
can also find codes like
that in books like War
and Peace and Moby
Dick."
We took the time to
examine this notion and
the best example of it
that the skeptics have
been able to come up
with. The results of our
research have
completely blown away
their theory. Click here to see for yourself.
Mat 12:39
But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh
after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it,
I thought it was kind of interesting. And while reading your post I thought of something.
Perhaps the Bible code has a connection to Revelations? Or maybe other books too, I don't know.
Revelations 18 fits quite well to the present situation. It also fits with the Bible code.
Maybe the Bible code was noticed during translation, and the scribe took the Bible code and put it into Revelations.
Just a thought.
AMEN!
Zep 1:14 ¶ The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.
15 That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,
16 A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers.
17 And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the LORD: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung.
18 Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD'S wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.
LOGIC 101 - the burden of proof is on the party making the assertion. Besides, the rules used to come up with the Bible Codes, produce all sorts of fascinating (prophetic?) stuff when applied so such things as Webster's Dictionary and Moby Dick. In other words, figures don't lie ... but liars figure. The reason Bible Codes and other such bunk are able to thrive is because there are enough credulous people to buy it (thanks government schools).
I recommend we read Scripture at face value....
The main things are the plain things... therein.
Mark Twain noted, "It is not the things in the Bible that I don't understand that frighten me.", inferring that God's forthright revelation of Himself, His decrees, and power to execute His judgments, in the affairs of time and history, as well as in matters of eternity should be enough to awaken the spirit of man.
It's not a rhyme (code), or a recipe.... or even a religion. It is a matter of one's personal relationship with God that will make all the difference in our life here and now... and in our hope for eternity.
"The precepts, principles, patterns.... the prophecies, prayers, and promises.... even the prose and the poetry... lead us to the Holy Person... who gives us the power to live according to His Word, and the living ultimate hope of eternal life."
The words of Peter, regarding Jesus Christ are recorded in Acts 4:12...
"Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved"
And the apostle Paul likewise encouraged faith in Christ in Philippians 2: 9-11...
"Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
No code necessary... IMHO
Regards and Blessings to all,
This is what God says in scripture (about plainly written scripture) a number of times. "Haven't I told you?" "Didn't I say?"
I'm sure you wouldn't make that argument against the validity of the plainly written scriptures, Hank. The question to ask about the so-called Bible Code is not, "Did He?" but rather, "Could He?"
These coincident words were also there before the event, but nobody knew to look for them until AFTER the event. Assuming for a moment that God did put the coded messages in the Hebrew text, he didn't do it to forewarn, but to say after the fact, "I foreknew this way before it happened. I AM."
Anyone, and I strongly mean ANYONE, who says God COULDN'T do this Bible Coding is actually saying God isn't.
The other question, (Did He?) we can ask him when we're in his presence in eternity. Just like the issue of Speaking in Tongues, it's not mentioned in the scriptures as being a prerequisite for salvation, so we can safely put it on the shelf for now.
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the
prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things,
God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book
of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the
book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from]
the things which are written in this book.
18 Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD'S wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.
I find the above interesting. Jealousy. Yep, that about sums it up. Now, why would G-d be jealous? Because we are told in the OT that G-d is a jealous G-d and you will worship no one but Him. And so called Christians have placed Jesus on and equal footing with G-d!
Oh there will be a hew and a cry over that statement, but its true. Jesus was a prophet, he told us that himself. When asked about salvation, he always mentions following the Commandments. Paul refers to Jesus as a MAN approved of G-d, born 'of the seed' of David, 'according to the flesh'.
Idolatry.
Jesus was Jewish, he always followed Judaism, his followers followed Judaism. They NEVER changed. I have never been able to understand how some can call themselves a followers of Jesus, when they don't follow the religion of JESUS.
What about faith? Yes, you need faith. The faith OF Jesus, NOT faith IN Jesus.
FWIW
The best test I saw was one that was run against the Bible and resulted in the message "Bible Code is a Fraud".
It's the old 1,000 monkey's with 1,000 typewriters thing. Technology just has made such an experiment possible.
"Mark 4:11-12 (Matthew 13:11,13-14) (Luke 8:10), "And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of G-d: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand. . ."
Perhaps folks don't know what FWIW means - For What It's Worth. I just posted it because I found it interesting, no more, no less. My faith is based on the plain text of Scripture.
The Bible Code folks do try to address the skeptics' questions at their website, make your own decision (like this crowd has to be encouraged to do so...). There are several other websites addressing the Bible Codes, perhaps I should not have posted one which is trying to make a buck. I agree that does cast doubt on the veracity of their work. Anyway, I simply found it interesting.
We certainly have far greater "plain text" issues facing us today... like can we determine God's will for each of us today, and if so how do we learn what He desires for us?
By taking Him at His word and doing as He asks. Jesus refers us back to G-d's Commandments all the time.
Remember do not add or take away!
Tell that to the early Christian churches
You are correct, sir.
"Please note that the words of Scripture are the same words used in secular writing; the same consonant/vowel relationships..."
Actually, the Bible Code only works, according to "scholars," by using the original Hebrew text of the Old Testament. This leaves everything wide open to many interpretations because ancient Hebrew does not contain vowels. Going by such a guideline, anything can be derived from the text. Another peculiarity is that people have only used the Code to predict events that have already happened. If these Bible Code nuts really knew what they were talking about, they would have warned us of the WTC attack beforehand.
I respectfully disagree. The Bible Code is as damaging to the message of the Gospel as the Left Behind series. Everyone gets so caught up in the mystical mumbo-jumbo that the real message is lost. We need to emphasize the importance of getting back to basics, meaning Scripture and prayer.
John 18:20, Matt. 12:39
But what do those verses really say? Let's come up with some funky new code that helps us understand what God was trying to say in the New Testament using the original Greek texts. According to the Bible Code scholars, Scripture cannot be taken at face value. Clear written words are not enough. We need to give the people some mystical, New Age slant to things to trick them into becoming believers.
</sarcasm>
Not so, Poohbah. You just haven't dug enough into what has gone on in Bible code research. Skeptics fail to disprove them time after time after time. Yours is the first, most elementary argument that was immediately put forth when the codes were discovered and it was the first to be mathematically blown out of the water.
Never mind...
If it's so useful, how come they never predict anything BEFORE it happens?
All they ever do is go back after the event and find the words they are already looking for.
It's still BS. Give me the consonants (no vowels) from War and Peace and allow me any arbitrary stepping order through them, and I will find all manner of secret messages.
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