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Why Christians Don't Understand Non-Christians
ArGee | 1/3/01 | ArGee

Posted on 01/03/2002 11:19:13 AM PST by ArGee

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To: ArGee
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101 posted on 01/03/2002 12:50:35 PM PST by charphar
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To: ArGee
When someone tells me how evil G-d is for sending non-Christians to hell, I view them as the person outside the locked door who refuses to go through the entrance, even though G-d has done everything possible to make the entrance easy to go through.

It's more like I've seen the menu for the banquet and I prefer the fare at the Kosher Deli.

102 posted on 01/03/2002 12:52:09 PM PST by Celtjew Libertarian
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To: IGNATIUS
ArGee---Once inside,are guests free to choose to leave either temporarily or permanently??

I absolutely refuse to get caught in that pit. The eternal security "discussion" is simply a way to distract the believers from doing the work of Christ. You ask if guests are free. Here is my answer.

Galations 5:1 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
Shalom.
103 posted on 01/03/2002 12:52:56 PM PST by ArGee
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To: ArGee
I completely agree with the analogy.

Having read the title however I was reading the artical for any HINT as to why you would title it Back-Asswards like you did

Christains understand Non-believers ALL to well.

We're ALL sinners saved by Grace alone. Period.

Some of us fall into Sin ( or choose to go willingly ) and it's only the Lords mercy which keeps us from His Judgement.

I think people become Christians when they get to see both inside the hall and out.

It's the non-saved folks who don't have that experience IMHO.

In my experience, God didn't open the doors to Heaven and let me in, He opened the doors to Hell and let me out.

104 posted on 01/03/2002 12:53:40 PM PST by MassExodus
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To: chookter
Let yourself in then. Someone will be by shortly...

Been there, done that, nobody showed. Got over it. Moved on.

105 posted on 01/03/2002 12:54:08 PM PST by LuvItOrLeaveIt
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To: lexcorp
What you are saying makes no sense; if I understand you, that is. If 999 religions were false then wouldn’t it stand to reason that 1 is true? And if so, you need to find out which one.
106 posted on 01/03/2002 12:54:53 PM PST by soundsolutions
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Comment #107 Removed by Moderator

To: Elsie
Where is FAITH when something like THIS happens???

Faith mourns the painfull loss, and is comforted by the thought that the temporary pain will be replaced by eternal joy.
Faith is thanking the Creator for ever creating such a beautiful family.

Faith is wondering "Why, God, would you allow such a horrible tragedy? What did we do to deserve this?";
But at the same time, faith would be marvelling "Why, God, would you bless me with such joy as having this beautiful wife, and loving children? What did we do to deserve such grace?"

108 posted on 01/03/2002 12:55:14 PM PST by sanchmo
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To: soundsolutions
well my post was directed to everybody. If people misunderstand that then I'm sorry but I thought everybody could read.
109 posted on 01/03/2002 12:55:26 PM PST by Khepera
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To: LuvItOrLeaveIt
No god ever said anything to anybody.

That's as much faith as anything written in the Bible.

110 posted on 01/03/2002 12:55:45 PM PST by Celtjew Libertarian
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To: chookter
It ends happily when those outside pass out from hunger and the rich man brings them inside and tends them.

May it be so. You also see the rich man's love for everyone. That is the most important point.

I'm not going to thank you for your other image, however. YUK! At least have them urinating in their own bowl. ;)

Shalom.

111 posted on 01/03/2002 12:56:27 PM PST by ArGee
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To: Khepera
Would you please point me to where JimRob said that? Thanks.

-ksen

112 posted on 01/03/2002 12:56:58 PM PST by ksen
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To: soundsolutions
Mainly because they are all man-made. You mentioned that it defies logic that all religions please God, and are true. Why do you assume that the one you believe in is true, and the one a Hindu believes in isn't? That just makes me think that none are really true.
113 posted on 01/03/2002 12:58:06 PM PST by stuartcr
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To: fourdeuce82d
What if we die and we find out the guys who worship rocks were right?

Is that what you believe? Friend, time is too short and the subject too important to waste our time on what if. What do you believe? What are your questions regarding the banquet G-d has promised? What will it take to convince you to come inside?

Leave the what-if's for the fantasy writers. Let's talk about what is.

Shalom.

114 posted on 01/03/2002 12:59:02 PM PST by ArGee
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To: Elsie
Because my faith is that God does not want us to be children. Therefore, the terrible must happen if we are to learn.
115 posted on 01/03/2002 12:59:03 PM PST by Celtjew Libertarian
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To: discostu
Most of the 10 Commandments are included, in some way, in every religion I've studied.
Well, you've got 'The Law' down perfect.

Too bad that NO one is able to keep it!

116 posted on 01/03/2002 12:59:06 PM PST by Elsie
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Comment #117 Removed by Moderator

To: lexcorp
Kudos. Once again you have lived up to your FR name.
118 posted on 01/03/2002 12:59:19 PM PST by Rogmonster
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To: Celtjew Libertarian
That's as much faith as anything written in the Bible.

That's a logical fallacy. In logical discourse, the claimant with the initial positive assertion is under the burden of proof. The person who claims some supernatural being speaks to people is under that burden, not I.

Until some form of independently verifiable evidence is presented to support such an assertion, it is logical to dismiss such a notion as fallacious.

119 posted on 01/03/2002 12:59:51 PM PST by LuvItOrLeaveIt
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To: L,TOWM
You forgot to include all the people that hear the advertising for the banquet, and go around telling every one that will listen that it is all nonsense;

What about those people who go around telling everyone that there is no 'rich man' and the banquet just 'evolved' from the pieces of food that have been lying around.

120 posted on 01/03/2002 12:59:59 PM PST by asformeandformyhouse
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To: fourdeuce82d
""what if that's the case for christianity? What if we die and we find out the guys who worship rocks were right?""

Then you will be a very rich man....we got lotsa rocks.
121 posted on 01/03/2002 1:00:04 PM PST by 1 FELLOW FREEPER
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To: lexcorp
Curiously enough, this "Father" of yours doesn't seem to be the only one in the field with "messages."

This is true, but if you open your heart you will know His voice. It is very distinct and easy to hear.

Open your heart.

Shalom.

122 posted on 01/03/2002 1:00:12 PM PST by ArGee
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To: ArGee
Leave the what-if's for the fantasy writers. Let's talk about what is.

Actually... I am a fantasy writer (unpublished, as yet, but still....). Want to talk about the what if's? 8>)

123 posted on 01/03/2002 1:01:03 PM PST by Celtjew Libertarian
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To: ArGee
Christianity requires that you accept the reign of Jesus in your life. If you reject that reign, you will go to the place where He does not reign. It will be your choice. I'm just curious why you would make that choice? What has that place got that Heaven hasn't got?

The arrogance in your reply answers the rhetorical question of this thread.

Why would anyone concern themselves with heaven or hell until there is proof that either exists?

I will make you a millionaire. All you have to do is send me 10% of your money and have faith. If you do not become a millionaire it is because you did not send me the money or you did not have enough faith.

Honestly, don't you find that argument a bit weak?

Even if I add the argument that if you do not send me your money and have enough faith then you will spend eternity burning in a lake of fire the argument is still weak.

Especially if I cannot show you a lake of fire with someone in it burning.

124 posted on 01/03/2002 1:01:19 PM PST by eFudd
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To: ArGee
Ah, a man with a reasonable mind....touche.
125 posted on 01/03/2002 1:01:49 PM PST by 1 FELLOW FREEPER
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To: Magician
We have our own more open and accessable paths to where we want to go in this life and in the next.

Notice that the Rich man was not forcing anyone inside. While others may have tried in his name (not mentioned in the story)....he did not.

126 posted on 01/03/2002 1:02:13 PM PST by sayfer bullets
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To: LuvItOrLeaveIt
The Bible is God’s word, and it can be demonstrated far beyond any doubt, that the book was not written by mere men. So, it records claims of Jesus, either what he said was 100% the truth or nothing he said is true. No one logically can pick and choose which things Christ said; that they will agree is true. There is no middle ground.
127 posted on 01/03/2002 1:02:21 PM PST by soundsolutions
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To: MassExodus
God didn't open the doors to Heaven and let me in, He opened the doors to Hell and let me out.
OOooooh! (hairs stand up on arm!)

This bears repeating......

God didn't open the doors to Heaven and let me in, He opened the doors to Hell and let me out.


No, it needs to be shouted!!!

God didn't open the doors to Heaven and let me in,
He opened the doors to Hell and let me out.


128 posted on 01/03/2002 1:02:53 PM PST by Elsie
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To: ArGee
Excellent post.

Our local Christian radio station ran an add about a year ago with much the same story. It was played out as a deadly disease that was killing everyone (sin) but the King had a cure and, although it was a very costly cure, He offered to pay it for everyone who would come and receive it. All they had to do was come through the door He designated. As in your story, there were those who complained loudly to anyone who would hear how "unfair" it was that the King who was providing the cure for the fatal disease wouldn't just let them enter His courts any old way they pleased.

There is only one road to heaven and God has been gracious enough to point it out clearly to us.

Peace.

129 posted on 01/03/2002 1:03:38 PM PST by Pablo64
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To: ArGee
What if the person's never heard of Christ? He's doomed to eternal damnation? What about babies who die in infancy before learning about Christ? What about all the billions of folks who lived before Jesus walked the Earth, or died before he died?
130 posted on 01/03/2002 1:04:27 PM PST by Junior
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To: LuvItOrLeaveIt
Trot him out, that's all the evidence I need.

I'm sorry, are you under the impression that He is a beast of whom I am the master?

I don't trot Him out, He comes when you call to Him. He is there for you to find. He desires a relationship with you.

But, as Jesus said: (Luke 16:31) "He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'"

Even if He were to appear to you tonight, you would convince yourself you were dreaming. There is no more complete evidence than what already is. It isn't a lack of evidence that is bothering you, it is a lack of will.

Open the eyes of your heart and you will see.

Shalom.

131 posted on 01/03/2002 1:04:52 PM PST by ArGee
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To: Khepera
I did not see it addressed to everyone...But it is interesting that this "outlawed" religious discussion has heated up the server so much. Could that be because people have a deep desire to really find out about Truth? And maybe are looking for logical explanations?
132 posted on 01/03/2002 1:05:37 PM PST by soundsolutions
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To: ksen;rnmomof7
Rnmomof7 sent me an email which sh says quotes Jim Robinson. I do not believe Rnmomof7 would lie to me about anything. This is what I received.

FYI: Re: Pope John Paul II's World Day of Peace Message
REPLIED Jim Robinson
2002-01-03 12:39:27 Well, I do not want a lot of hot religious debate on FR. This is not the place for it. Please cool it. Thanks, Jim

I believe her when she says she got tis from Jim.

133 posted on 01/03/2002 1:06:15 PM PST by Khepera
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To: lexcorp
If 990 religions in a row are false, the chances are pretty good that religion 991 will be false as well. And by the time you get to testing religion 1000, it stands to reason it'll be false, too.
Faulty logic..........
If 990 coin flips in a row are tails, the chances are pretty good that flip 991 will be tails as well. And by the time you get to flipping coin 1000, it stands to reason it'll be tails, too.
Just change the wording and you'll see...........
134 posted on 01/03/2002 1:06:52 PM PST by Elsie
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To: ksen;rnmomof7;*BRAAD
Rnmomof7 sent me an email which sh says quotes Jim Robinson. I do not believe Rnmomof7 would lie to me about anything. This is what I received.

FYI: Re: Pope John Paul II's World Day of Peace Message
REPLIED Jim Robinson
2002-01-03 12:39:27 Well, I do not want a lot of hot religious debate on FR. This is not the place for it. Please cool it. Thanks, Jim

I believe her when she says she got tis from Jim.

135 posted on 01/03/2002 1:06:53 PM PST by Khepera
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To: soundsolutions
"...it can be demonstrated far beyond any doubt, that the book was not written by mere men"

Demonstrated how? Could you expand on this part?

136 posted on 01/03/2002 1:06:54 PM PST by fourdeuce82d
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To: lexcorp
If 990 religions in a row are false, the chances are pretty good that religion 991 will be false as well. And by the time you get to testing religion 1000, it stands to reason it'll be false, too.

To the cynic or pessimist, perhaps. But then this person probably never looked very far into religion 1 in the first place. Nor did he compare 1 to 3, or 20 to 52.

It's always easier to NOT do something than it is TO do something, so it stands to reason that the cynic/pessimist believes in nothing.

137 posted on 01/03/2002 1:07:32 PM PST by sayfer bullets
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To: soundsolutions
The Bible is God’s word, and it can be demonstrated far beyond any doubt, that the book was not written by mere men.

There is no evidence to support this assertion. The Bible was written by men, that is fact. You have yet to demostrate this god you assert exists, let alone that it wrote down anything.

So, it records claims of Jesus, either what he said was 100% the truth or nothing he said is true.

As with all mythology, there is a modicum of basis in fact. Such is the way with myths and legends.

No one logically can pick and choose which things Christ said; that they will agree is true. There is no middle ground.

Which is precisely why it is 100% safe to reject all of it as superstitious nonsense.

138 posted on 01/03/2002 1:08:18 PM PST by LuvItOrLeaveIt
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Sorry for the double post. I'll be quiet now.
139 posted on 01/03/2002 1:09:00 PM PST by Khepera
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To: ArGee
Well, I don't understand people who would sit outside the locked door, but I consider myself and other atheists to be more the type that sees the fliers and goes to the stadium only to be told that the banquet will be held "soon." No one knows when. When we ask, we find that the fliers have been posted for 2000 years... so we go find our own food. We see you as folks who've been hanging around looking for free food for a very, very long time. Hey, it's your choice...
140 posted on 01/03/2002 1:09:18 PM PST by Anamensis
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To: Junior
What if the person's never heard of Christ?
Gee, thanks Junior!

(Which side are you on again????)

141 posted on 01/03/2002 1:09:43 PM PST by Elsie
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To: soundsolutions
How can you possibly expect logical answers when you are talking about a subject that is based solely on faith?
142 posted on 01/03/2002 1:13:05 PM PST by stuartcr
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To: lexcorp
If 990 religions in a row are false, the chances are pretty good that religion 991 will be false as well. And by the time you get to testing religion 1000, it stands to reason it'll be false, too.

While this assumption is mathematically rational (in the best form of Solomonoff), it doesn't prove that your assumption will always be correct. The problem is that the rational choice and the correct choice are not always the same thing, so errors are quite possible. By the same token, to assert that ANY religion of the thousand is correct is irrational and all intelligent people should treat such an assertion as just that.

It is up to the individuals who hypothesize that a particular choice is correct to devise an objective metric that can be rigorously evaluated as rational in these cases. If the hypothesis is correct, the construction of such an objective metric must be possible.

143 posted on 01/03/2002 1:13:23 PM PST by tortoise
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To: soundsolutions
How can you possibly expect logical answers when you are talking about a subject that is based solely on faith?
144 posted on 01/03/2002 1:14:00 PM PST by stuartcr
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To: stuartcr
The reason being is the Hindus basically claim that we are all God, which is a very old pagan “old age” religion. Not to mention that you would be in real trouble if I were God, as I would be in real trouble if you were God. The claims of Hinduism defy logic, because we are all certainly not God. This does not mean that Hinduism has some minor truths within it. But when it comes to the essentials of knowing God, it truly misses the mark (which is what sin is).
145 posted on 01/03/2002 1:14:29 PM PST by soundsolutions
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To: soundsolutions;*BRAAD
Could be people are looking for truth. I don't know why they would not want truth. I don't know how most will recognize the truth when they see it unless they refer to the "Book of Truth". Does anyone have a book of truth? I have one called the "Bible" that I use. I believe it to be the only book of truth but what do you all believe? Is this religious discussion?
146 posted on 01/03/2002 1:14:34 PM PST by Khepera
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To: LuvItOrLeaveIt
That's a logical fallacy. In logical discourse, the claimant with the initial positive assertion is under the burden of proof. The person who claims some supernatural being speaks to people is under that burden, not I

Until some form of independently verifiable evidence is presented to support such an assertion, it is logical to dismiss such a notion as fallacious.

That never worked for me. Many people base their faith on personal experiences. Even though these experiences cannot by independently verified, they would be fools to ignore such experiences. For those of us who do not have such experiences, it is a matter of how much we trust the stories that we hear and the people who tell them.

This isn't just religion: Many of our beliefs -- aesthetic, romantic, even political to a certain extent -- are formed just the same way.

It is not foolish of you to reject religious belief, based on your experience. It is foolish of you to reject others’ faith and beliefs on that basis, unless you are going to reject other beliefs, based on unverifiable evidence, such as appreciation of a form of music or romantic love.

147 posted on 01/03/2002 1:14:34 PM PST by Celtjew Libertarian
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To: ArGee
I'm not going to thank you for your other image, however. YUK! At least have them urinating in their own bowl.

There was actually a point to it--Who are the rich man's servers at the banquet?

148 posted on 01/03/2002 1:17:36 PM PST by Cogadh na Sith
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To: LuvItOrLeaveIt
Which is precisely why it is 100% safe to reject all of it as superstitious nonsense.

Call me NOW!

Miss Cleo
Why do we NOT call her? Because we KNOW that there are charletans that take advantage of the simple. We don't want to be simple, therefore, we don't call her.
Now, if there is a BIG splash in the Media about how 'accurate' Miss Cleo is, we 'might' try to call (if none of our friends would not find out.)

So it is with the Scripture. IF there were just SOME past prophecy that had come true, we might be tempted to check........

Nah, that's crazy........

149 posted on 01/03/2002 1:17:48 PM PST by Elsie
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To: soundsolutions
I was using Hinduism as an example only, please substitute any religion other than your own for the word Hinduism.
150 posted on 01/03/2002 1:18:25 PM PST by stuartcr
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