Roman Catholic Concern: Action Plan Repost

24 March A.D. 2002 | father_elijah

[Codie]

I'm glad your post has been granted a 2nd chance.I enjoyed reading it this time just as much as I did the 1st time.Keep it coming and God Bless!

[grumpster-dumpster]

BUMP Time!

[grumpster-dumpster]

BUMP Time...again!

[patent]

Bottom line is that I wonder how much can actually be blamed on Vatican II, when there were other factors at play (demographic changes, communication changes, technological innovation) which may have changed the dynamic instead.

Not a great deal. Vatican II often used the vague language that accompanies consensus building. Its greatest flaw was a lack of clarity.

For the liturgy, for example, it indicated that Latin was to remain the norm, but that the vernacular could be used for some portions (such as the readings, one supposes). It indicated that Gregorian chant and then polyphony were to be the music. You can’t find a reference to what goes on in most modernist parishes, things like guitars and folk music.

I could probably go on for quite some time, but it would get boring. There are somethings in V2 I didn’t like, but for the most part it wasn’t so bad once you actually read the documents. What is bad is what the liberals claim it said, and they have been largely successful in pushing their interpretation. Both the hyper conservatives and the liberals claim that V2 changed everything and is the source of clown masses, etc.

They never seem to be able to find cites for these things in the V2 documents though. Of course, their word is good enough, right? Its only the little people who need to actually cite to something.

patent  +AMDG

[grumpster-dumpster]

OK..I'll admit I haven't read the V-2 documents...But to be honest, I don't think most the changes have been bad at all. I mean, I'm still conservative and I don't see anything wrong with a Mass in the language people can understand. Nor do I have much sympathy for the people who want to "re-arrange" the furniture back to the old way. It's just piddily-stuff to me. (OK...I do miss the tabernacle in the middle...so sue me! LOL!)

Have a great Easter!

[patent]

To me it depends a lot on what the change is. The Church is constantly changing, it always has been. The thing is the changes should be consistent with 2000 years of tradition, at least in the same spirit. Being able to understand the Mass is fine. The Mass has been in the vernacular before, in some places I think it has always been that way. Certainly it is reasonable to put parts of the Mass in the vernacular, such as the readings, etc.

AT the same time, we now have people making changes merely for the sake of trying something new. The parish liturgical director doesn't like this or that, so she changes this or that to something else. A great deal of the deeper spiritual meaning is lost when there is no reason for the change, other then it is a neat thing to try!

Going to Mass becomes less a mystical union and more an entertainment venue/social gathering.

patent

[grumpster-dumpster]

Yeah, I understand what your saying. I have a "confession to make" (Please: NO INTERNET ABSOLUTIONS! LOL!). I left the Churh for many years; Today was the first time in a long, long while that I attended a "Stations of the Cross" vigil... I have to admit I was shocked at the informality and lack of majesty. The service was conducted by one of the Deacons, and was too short (About 25 minutes).

This is my "beef:" When people take the time to show-up for a service at 3pm... they are there because they want to be! At least have the courtesy to conduct a proper service... not the Readers-Digest version.

[Brian Kopp DPM]

Thank you for re-posting this thread, Father. Pity the previous thread was (as usual) disrupted.

[OxfordMovement]

I just saw this action plan for the first time. I am very moved by it, and I am not Roman Catholic--yet. I just wanted to encourage all of you. You have a wonderful Church, and I think the Pope is the bravest Christian alive today. Please don't give up or despair. Christ loves his Church. Christ loves all of you.

[ELS]

Also, how can I be added to the Catholic_list?

In two words, you can't. It is not a ping/flag list where you are flagged to a thread. It is a bump list where a list of all threads bumped to a particular topic can be seen. So, you can see the list of all Catholic-related threads that have been bumped to the Catholic_list.

[ProtectRUnborn]

I thanked my priest last week in the confessional for dedicating his life to Christ and for being a priest. Just think how dreadful things would be without dedicated priests and religious. I think this country would self-destruct in no time!

Thanks for the post Fr. I will offer all of my Holy Week prayers and communions for priests, bishops and for an increase in vocations.

[ltlflwr]

Thanks for the clarification. :)

[katnip]

I have not read the V2 documents either. I don't know who decided on the changes, I just know what was done.
When we no longer knelt to receive communion on our tongue but started having it dumped in our hands, it bothered me.
Face to face Confession, not for me.
The change to addressing the priests and nuns by given names gave me the creeps.
I did not need them to be my "friends", I needed them to be my respected "leaders".
Anything that was beautiful in the small church I grew up in was removed.
All was replaced with ugly wooden carvings, a totem-pole tabernacle and a risen Christ thingy on the wall.
The stations of the cross are some bizzaro modern art crap.
Guitars and tambourines, clapping, the lack of reverence and mystery.
I'm a simple person who misses the loveliness and spirituality of the old days.
Maybe it's something that's now missing in me, I don't know.
When I take my 10 year old to the childrens mass every Sunday, I cringe when we get to the "Mystery of Faith".
They've turned it into this real snazzy song,
"Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again and again"
Eh, what's a little heresy, as long as it sounds good.

[katnip]

Please read past my post #34
Don't let this grumpy old traditionalist take away any joy you are having about your conversion to Catholism.
I saw you defending a Catholic on another post and admired you for it.
Welcome to FR and to the Blessed Church.

[Palladin]

Thank you, thank you, thank you! What a wonderful plan of prayer and action! I will do my best to follow this plan. Thank you for leading us in this apiritual warfare.

[Salvation]

Thank you for your work in re-posting this!

Looking forward to the Easter Vigial Service and new Catholics inducted into the Church!

[father_elijah]

This is extremely good. Thank you for putting this together in such a clear letter form. I hope many will make use of it as a means to support Our Lord and the cleansing of His Church.

[american colleen]

Thank you so much for putting a plan of action to words. It gives me an outline of action instead of wringing my hands - prayer is wonderful, but I need to know that I can do something that requires action.

Please pray for my parish priest, and I beg all those here to do the same, I believe this poor man is going through some kind of crisis of faith right now as I have witnessed several very odd incidents by him and he asked me to pray for him during one of them.

Thanks again!

[Squire]

This Lent, the priesthood itself has been crucified in a very real sense. All priests -- even those who have been completely faithful and have heroically sacrificed everything for God -- are now under a cloud of suspicion.

I hope that those in authority are doing some substantial self-examination right now. If they are, good will ultimately come out of this.