Posted on 07/23/2002 1:32:14 PM PDT by RnMomof7
You sprang forth from either the Roman Catholic church or the "Protest" with gave us "Protestanism." If not this, see the final paragraph. THE church was the Roman Catholic church, until Martin Luther posted his 95 Theses of 1517. Luther didn't mean to start a "Reformation," but thanks to the printing press (the mass production of the Luther's "protest" translated from Latin to German in which even the fairly illiterate laymen could read) and the churches heretical teaching that one's soul can be purchased (with money) out of the mythical purgatory, the Reformation began.
If you are not a Protestant, then you're even more the imagination of man, like Islam, Buddism, Hinduism, Confucianism, Wiccans, New Agers, LDS, WCC, WCOTC, NoI, British-Israelism, NoY (Black Hebrew Israelites), practitioner of voodoo, etc.
You call Arminianism "ANOTHER GOSPEL" yet you continue to fellowship among those who preach it. If this article is true, then you are fellowshiping among the "accursed." You, by your presence at an Arminian church are contributing to propigation of a FALSE GOSPEL.
If you truly believe that Arminianism is a false gospel or another gospel, then you are contributing to the damnation of those that you are now fellowshiping because your presence at their church is a tacit endorsement of the teachings of that Church.
I certainly don't believe that Calvinism is "another gospel." Calvinism is another theology. It is another way of viewing the mysteries of the gospel. Arminianism is not the gospel, it is merely another way of interpreting the manner in which those who come to Christ actually do come to Christ.
But some of you have laid down the gauntlet and have accused those of us who are not Calvinists of preaching "another gospel."
Well its time to put up or shut up. Is it "Another Gospel?" If it is then are not not bringing damnation upon yourself and others by having fellowship with those whom God has declared accursed?
How about a public answer this time?
Slow ya roll.
Did not Christ eat and sit with sinners?
I live in Finneys burned over district..there is not a selection of Calvinist/refomed churches..in fact other than the start up there is zero in Buffalo
Interesting. Am I to infer from this that Calvinists don't put much stock in prayer, even to the point of mocking those who believe in prayer as a source of answers?
Actually, I asked Woody to pray over the scriptures (over the bible) in question. And, yes, he did mock that.
There is a logical argument that can be made that calvinists do not think prayer can effectively change anything. There is a brand of calvinism that believes every single action/act in all of history is predetermined and initiated by God. In that regard, everything they could possibly pray for would have already been determined. In that view, prayer would be futile.
"But in order to legitimize his heresy, Calvin had to present his new teaching as something ancient. Therefore, he appealed to the authority of St. Augustine. But Augustine, "the Doctor of Grace," was in no way a Calvinist, for in one sentence, he rejects TULIP: "If, however, being already regenerate and justified, he relapses of his own will into an evil life, assuredly he cannot say, `I have not received,' because of his own free choice to evil he has lost the grace of God, that he had received."
There was a reformation in the church.The reformation was about doctrine that differed from Rome.
So when a NC group denies the doctrine of the reformation they are considered "romish" or romanish meaning they continued in the teaching of Rome in that area..(BTW I usually do not use the phrase "romish" it was an uncomfortable feel to it for me to use).
The quote you give has been discussed many times..I see someone gave you links
Augustine believed in election..he wrote it
It was actually Luther that was the most prolific writer on predestination and election BTW not Calvin. But for some reason the belief in the Sovereignity of God has carried his name as a "nicnmame"
So consider this..Two Catholic are the fathers of Calvinism..:>)
Interesting. Am I to infer from this that Calvinists don't put much stock in prayer, even to the point of mocking those who believe in prayer as a source of answers?
Tell you what. You find for me in the scriptures (Bible only) where it says that I should pray about the words of another man to see if they are true or not. Meanwhile, while you are vainly struggling to find that, I'll quote to directly from the word of God:
Now, I am well aware that you Mormons teach that one should mock God and call into question his Word by asking that we pray about it to see if it is true. But, when John was in prison and doubting the words concerning Christ that he had so boldly declared when he saw Him, Jesus did not tell John's disciples to believe His words; Jesus told John to believe the Scriptures:
Acts 17:11 ...and [the Bereans] searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.
Now, did Jesus tell John to believe his words or did He even tell him to pray? He said tell him what you see and John will know the answer because he knows the TRUE scriptures. Jesus said essentially to John, "Does what is happening agree with the prophecies in Isa 61:1 and many others."
Matthew 11:2-5 And when John had heard in prison about the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples and said to Him, "Are you the Coming One, or do we look for another?"
Jesus answerd and said to them, "Go and tell John the things which you hear and see; the blind recieve their sight and the lame walk; the lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear; the dead are raised up and the poor have the gospel preached to them."
Don't think so. Try again.
There is a logical argument that can be made that calvinists do not think prayer can effectively change anything
Why do you say that when you know it is not true?
It is actually Arminians that SHOULD NOT pray IF they are to be faithful to THEIR doctrine..
If you pray and God changed the person then YOU have interfered with that persons free will
So thus your prayer for a sinner in need of salvation would go like this
Heavenly Father I ask you to STAY AWAY " do not touch or move anything. Allow my loved one to use their free will without you interfering.
An Arminian can never pray for God to intervene in any situation because it is an afront to mans free will.
On the other hand Calvinists have NO PROBLEM asking God to act sovereignly and impact the will of man....We pray for that impact..WE want God to act..
And we know that God knowing all things in advance KNEW we were going to pray..Our prayer is a PART of His will and Plan..
So xzins..How is it you tell woody to "pray "over his bible ..but you do not pray to have God open your eyes to the truth of your conversion?
BTW Hope an intersting historical sidelight..Joseph Smith was a Methodist like xzins..the Methodists teach the "strangly warmed heart'.......I suspect that is where Joseph got his "burning breast " belief from.
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