Our Lady Of Guadalupe

July 29, 2002

[NYer]

In 1929, Alfonso Marcue, who was the official photographer of the old Basilica of Guadalupe in Mexico City, found what seemed to be a clear image of a bearded man reflected in the right eye of the Virgin. Initially he did not believe what was before his eyes. How could it be? A bearded man inside of the eyes of the Virgin?. After many inspections of many of his black and white photographs he had no doubts and decided to inform the authorities of the Basilica. He was told that time to keep complete silence about the discovery, which he did.

More than 20 years later, on May 29, 1951, Jose Carlos Salinas Chavez, examining a good photograph of the face, rediscovers the image of what clearly appears to be a bearded man reflected in the right eye of the Virgin, and locates it on the left eye too.

ALT="Our Lady of Guadalupe Image. Detail of the right eye showing a "bearded man"" WIDTH="140" HEIGHT="220" BORDER="0">
"Bearded man".

CENTER> "Bearded man".

Since then, many people had the opportunity to inspect closely the eyes of the Virgin on the tilma, including more than 20 physicians, ophthalmologists.

The first one, on March 27, 1956, was Dr. Javier Torroella Bueno, MDS, a prestigious ophthalmologist. In what is the first report on the eyes of the image issued by a physician, he certifies the presence of the triple reflection (Samson-Purkinje effect) characteristic of all live human eyes and states that the resulting images are located exactly where they are supossed to be according to such effect, and also that the distortion of the images agree with the curvature of the cornea.

The same year another ophthalmologist, Dr. Rafael Torrija Lavoignet, examined the eyes of the image with an ophthalmoscope in great detail. He observed the apparent human figure in the corneas of both eyes, with the location and distortion of a normal human eye and specially noted a unique appearance of the eyes: they look strangely "alive" when examined.

Many other examinations by ophthalmologists have been done of the eyes of the image on the tilma after these first ones. With more or less details all agree with the conclusions of the ones mentioned above.

According to Dr. Tonsmann, from left to right we can see "the Indian", "bishop Zumarraga", the "translator", "Juan Diego showing the tilma" and below "the family".

But a new and fascinating kind of analysis of the eyes started in 1979, when Dr. Jose Aste Tonsmann, Ph D, graduated from Cornell University, while working in IBM scanned at very high resolutions a very good photograph, taken from the original, of the face on the tilma. After filtering and processing the digitized images of the eyes to eliminate "noise" and enhance them, he made some astonishing discoveries: not only the "human bust" was clearly present in both eyes, but another human figures were seen as reflected in the eyes too!

Dr. Aste Tonsmann published his last studies on the eyes on the tilma in the book "El Secreto de sus Ojos", with complete details and photographs of his work . Perhaps one of the most fascinating aspects of the studies is his conclusion that Our Lady of Guadalupe not only left us her miraculous image as proof of her apparition but some important messages too. These messages were hidden in the eyes on the image until our times, when new technologies would allow them to be discovered, when they are most necessary.

That would be the case with the image of a family in the center of the Virgin's eye, in times when families are under serious attack in our modern world. The image of various human figures that seem to constitute a family, including various children and a baby carried in the woman's back as used in the 16th century, appears in the center of the pupil, as shown in this great image of the right eye highlighting the family, generously provided by Dr. Tonsmann.

[NYer]

Fascinating, isn't it? Juan Diego, or whatever name they wish to give him, would still be an excellent candidate for sainthood.

[yendu bwam]

Wow!

[Desdemona]

Amazing...

I was on a tour of Europe, one of 4 RCs in a group of 24. We went to Notre Dame. Like so many cathedrals in the name of Our Lady, there are chapels, one for every continent and there is one for Our Lady of Guadalupe. There's more, but that one I REALLY remember. One of the people on this tour asked is I knew anything about this. She had never heard of this. And I'm thinking...well, yeah. Anyway, I told her the story, and this woman was amazed at the amount of detail to the story, the roses (the flowers were roses, right?), the garment, and asked why I believed. And so I told her about the eyes. How can you not believe?

[NYer]

Just realized that I forgot to include the pictures. Here they are:

1.
There's a bearded man in this photo.

Here's a closer look at the bearded man.

According to Dr. Tonsmann, from left to right we see "the Indian", "Bishop Zumarraga", "the translator", "Juan Diego showing the tilma", and "the family"

The Family

[Sock]

Guadalupe is a beautiful and awe-inspiring apparition of Our Lady and it has lead hundreds of thousands to the one true faith. Indeed, a number of popes have also supported the belief in the miracle. However, I wish there were independent scientific studies to lend credence to Dr. Tonsmann’s relatively recent findings.

[narses]

There are. Many of them. Time permitting I'll find and post them.

[eastsider]

The underlying image is inexplicably applied -- it floats on the surface of the tilma like a photographic emulsion -- to which several human additions have been made. In addition to being a beautiful piece of iconography, it unofficially serves as the national symbol of Mexico.

[NYer]

The underlying image is inexplicably applied -- it floats on the surface of the tilma like a photographic emulsion

Are you familiar with the image of Our Lady of Good Counsel? It is a fresco which was miraculously removed from a church in Albania, transported in a cloud, across the Adriatic Sea and then across Italy to the small town of Genazzano, just outside of Rome. Like the Guadalupe image, it also floats above the wall of its new church.

I caught the story on one of the EWTN, Miracle of the Cross programs with Bob and Penny Lord. I had already visited the House of the Blessed Mother in Loretto but not this church in Genazzano.

[eastsider]

Are you familiar with the image of Our Lady of Good Counsel?

No, I am not. Thanks to Ted Turner, we are EWTN-challenged in NYC. I have been to the basilica in Mexico City, however, and managed to squeeze in between two of the moving observations ramps to pray a 15-decade rosary. I got a good, long look at the tilma. It's beautiful.

[NYer]

I got a good, long look at the tilma. It's beautiful.

The story of Our Lady of Guadalupe is so interesting, especially when Juan Diego is told to pick flowers from the frozen ground. The BVM arranges them in his tilma and sends him back to the bishop to request that a church be built on that spot. This is a painting of Juan Diego showing the tilma, with flowers, to the bishop. Interesting to view the scene, from the bishop's perspective.

[SMEDLEYBUTLER]

Do you have a source URL so I can view the photos?

[Litany]

Our Lady of Guadalupe is also known as Patroness of the Americas. Her feast day is Dec. 12....I believe this was the date of the Supreme Court decision in 2000. Not a mere coincidence IMHO.

[NYer]

Juan Diego bump!

[Litany]

http://www.sancta.org/eyes.html

[NYer]

Do you have a source URL so I can view the photos?

Smedley ... this is totally beyond my comprehension. Twice today, I posted the photos, which later disappeared. I was about to ask someone else to post the pictures, when they reappeared! (I am not making this up!).

Please take this link and see if you can repost the pictures here. They were right up there a short time ago ... but, now they're gone! http://www.sancta.org/eyes.html

[SMEDLEYBUTLER]

Thank you.

[SMEDLEYBUTLER]

I believe you, honest. Sometimes funky things happen.

[livius]

Very interesting. The bearded figure was, I believe, originally thought to be a Spaniard, and not Juan Diego (who was an Indian, and therefore had no beard).

I think that because of Mexican racial unease, Juan Diego has become progressively less Indian. I recally reading a few days ago that most of the devotional pictures of him show somebody with fair skin and a beard. The producer of this material said he made it because that was what the buyers wanted.

Very odd. But if you've ever spent any time in Mexico (as I have), you'll learn very fast that Mexicans make a big distinction between folks of European origin (not necessarily Spanish, since there are also many people of French, Irish, English and German origin who have been Mexicans for generations) and Indians. Unfortunately, I think the tendency of the Mexican government to make special allowances for Indians and give them special benefits has only made the animosity worse.

Juan Diego could be a powerful symbol of unity and equality before God, but somehow, I don't think this is what is happening right now.

[Cap'n Crunch]

Oh, now you went and done it.

"Listen and let it penetrate your heart, my dear little son. Do no be troubled or weighed down with grief. Do not fear any illness or vexation, anxiety or pain. Am I not here who am your Mother? Are you not under my shadow and protection? Am I not your fountain of life? Are you not in the folds of my mantle? In the crossing of my arms? Is there anything else you need?"

The words of Our Lady of Guadalupe to (soon to be) St. Juan Diego Dec. 12th 1531

Cried like a baby the first time I read them.

Bump for Our Lady of Guadalupe