30,000 Protestant Denominations?

http://www.pressiechurch.org/Shepherding_the_Sheep/How%20many%20Protestant%20denominations%20are%20there.htm ^ | 9/24/02 | Eric Svendsen 

[RnMomof7]

It seems every time we have a discussion on Doctrine this number or a similar one pops up.

[RnMomof7]

BUMP

[St.Chuck]

There are a lot of problems here. I hope nobody reads this guy's book.

[Notwithstanding]

1. All "Catholics" accept the pope as the authritative leader and teacher for all Christians. Thus there are no denominations within Catholicism. There are various ways to follow Christ under the leadership of the pope - but there is a unity of leadership, belief, morality, doctrine and the essentials of worship (sacraments). These are not denominations at all.

2. All other groups claiming to follow Christ rejected papal leadership at some point. These groups have all splintered continuously as differences of opinion and belief occured, such that denominations do in fact come into existance ad inifnitum - all claiming to believe whatever they wish while also claiming to follow Christ and the Bible with no need for any visible unity with the others. There is clearly no unity of leadership, belief, morality, doctrine or worship (there can't be as there are endless possible interpretations of every scripture passage). The essence of Protestantism is that one is free to reject what one personally feels is not compatible with scripture - and that one's personal feelings on any given matter trump any Church doctrine.

3. The only unity among Protestants denominations is that they reject Catholicism as the way to follow Christ. Beyond that, the doctrinal differences among the thousands of Protestant congregations are endless to the point of absurdity. There is no way to list all of the varying manifestations of Protestantism as the act of the original "protesting" legitimized any future "protest" - and we all know the "protesting" continues as new congregations open every week all over the USA (and elsewhere), formed by people who rejected the teaching of their former congregation.

[A.J.Armitage]

There are various ways to follow Christ under the leadership of the pope - but there is a unity of leadership, belief, morality, doctrine and the essentials of worship (sacraments).

My state representative is a pro-choice Catholic.

[PresbyRev]

You wrote: "All "Catholics" accept the pope as the authritative leader and teacher for all Christians. Thus there are no denominations within Catholicism. There are various ways to follow Christ under the leadership of the pope - but there is a unity of leadership, belief, morality, doctrine and the essentials of worship (sacraments). These are not denominations at all."

Protestants accept Christ as the only true head of his church. If the primacy of the Pope as head of the Roman church nullifies 'denominationalism' within the Roman communion, then certainly the same principle of unity will be granted for Protestantism? That is precisely the contention of many Protestants regarding the spiritual unity of the church in Christ, regardless of the polity or structure of worship within any particular denominational expression.

You wrote: "The essence of Protestantism is that one is free to reject what one personally feels is not compatible with scripture - and that one's personal feelings on any given matter trump any Church doctrine."

Surely you must know you are engaging in a bit of hyperbole here that is not at all honest or accurate. One's personal feelings trumping 'Church doctrine' is not the essence of Protestantism. That the Bible is the supreme and only rule of faith and practice is the Protestant principle. However, the Bible is interpreted within the larger community of the church from the patristic era down to today. The creeds, councils, the fathers and the confessions of the catholic church (including the Biblical insights of the Roman tradition) guide and inform the Protestant.

Mystics may allow 'feelings' to trump ecclesial doctrine or the witness of Scripture, but mysticism is not Protestantism.

You wrote: "The only unity among Protestants denominations is that they reject Catholicism as the way to follow Christ. Beyond that, the doctrinal differences among the thousands of Protestant congregations are endless to the point of absurdity."

Again, you are obviously moving beyond the truth for the sake of rhetorical impact. To assert that the 'unity' found in Protestantism consists only in a common rejection of Rome is itself absurd on its face. Protestants are united in their affirmation of the creeds - if not in fact, then at least in substance. Both the Anglican and the Primitive Baptist affirm belief in the Triune God - Father, Son and Holy Spirit, for instance. It is also false to baldly assert that Protestants reject Rome. Protestants maintain the witness against the abuses and corruptions in faith and practice which crept into the church by the beginning of the second millennium. With deference to my fundamentalist sistren and brethren, I would note that the PCUSA and many other denominations are engaged with Rome in ecumenical dialog. The Roman Church acknowledges Presbyterian baptism as valid, just as Presbyterians have always acknowledged Roman Catholic baptisms as valid. Protestants are united in the common faith of the catholic church down through the ages. They are united in many ways with our separated brethren (wink, wink) in the Roman Church - though on issues of ecclesial/papal authority, the definition of justification, the relationship of justification & sanctification, and a few other fundamental and substantive issues there are barriers yet to be overcome. However, at least in the Reformed tradition, even Calvin was willing to accept Papal authority, as adiaphora, if the substance of such issues as justification, worship and the sacraments were reformed according to Scripture and the patristic witness.

You are denigrating Protestants for the most invalid of reasons - reasons that in reality do not exist. As a postscript, I would note, as you are no doubt aware, that it is not only Protestants, but the entire Eastern Orthodox communion, that rejects the primacy of the bishop of Rome.

[PresbyRev]

As a follow-up, though, let me add that I do not believe Protestantism has been without sin relative to the issue of unity. Surely, many individual congregations and denominations have 'split' when they should not have; separated over secondary issues or non-issues. John Frame has a lovely book entitled, Evangelical Reunion (Frame is a member of the Presbyterian Church in America and no great friend of mainline Presbyterians). Nonetheless, Frame sets some excellent parameters toward reachieving organic unity on a wider basis than currently exists. I do think it would be better to have three or four "blocks" of Protestants, rather than thousands of denominations. Many Protestants do take ecumenism and organic unity quite seriously. Yet, the era of "denominations" is likely coming to a close and it is a paradigm shift that I suspect will even overtake the Roman communion globally to some degree, just as it is and will affect Protestants.

Folks are gravitating toward likeminded folks regardless of denominational labels or doctrinal peculiarities - by that, I mean orthodox Methodists and Presbyterians have far more in common with orthodox Roman Catholics - even when they debate issues that are leftover from the 1600's, than with 'liberals' or 'fundamentalists' or 'New Age/Mystic' types within their own traditions. So, you find the boundaries of 'denominations' or 'congregations' becoming fuzzier; brand-loyalty becoming weaker and a true spiritual, if not always organic, unity developing between those who confess faith in the triune God and can affirm the Apostle's Creed without crossing their fingers.

[saradippity]

S/he is a little c,catholic,pro-choice hypocrite.No one except other lying,deceiving,dirt bag,hypocrites should vote for this person.After all clearly this person has signaled that they are not what they claim,so why would any one in their right mind vote for a person who has already told you they lie?

It would be like me running for office saying:I am sara dippity,a burly macho guy that wants to do good for you.It wouldn't take long before people would learn I was an older woman that lied about her sex.I bet I wouldn't get any votes and either should that person.We could bring politics as usual,to to a halt.

This article is as goofy as my post,but I am sending it off anyway.

[Notwithstanding]

First, you chose to read what I wrote in the least favorable light. For instance, clearly my comment about "feelings" when read in context is about one's feelings about what is scriptural - not just about one's feelings.

Second, I agree that those of like mind regardless of their confession are gravitating toward one another.

The author is trying to claim that Catholics have lots of denominations (when in fact we are one united faith with no denominations), and that there are not endless variations of bible Christianity and Protestantism which are not at all united. The author is dead wrong.

Reminder of the obvious for another poster: those who claim to be Catholic and who reject her doctrines are in fact not Catholic.

[Theresa]

"and for (7) Roman Catholic, there are sixteen traditions, including Latin-rite local, Latin-rite catholic, Latin/Eastern-rite local, Latin/Eastern-rite catholic, Syro-Malabarese, Ukrainian, Romanian, Maronite, Melkite, Chaldean, Ruthenian, Hungarian, plural Oriental rites, Syro-Malankarese, Slovak, and Coptic. It is important to note here that Barrett places these sixteen Roman Catholic traditions (i.e., true denominations) on the very same level as the twenty-one Protestant traditions (i.e., true denominations). "

Uh uh! Nope. I don't think so. These are rites. Rites means ritual not belief. They wear different vestments and have different practices but it's really not a denomination. Its not like they ever split off from Rome, they just developed organically as rites in their own cultures, with the Church of Rome as their head. But no these are not denominations IMHO. I am a Catholic of the Roman rite. Another may be a Catholic of the Coptic rite. We are both of the same Catholic Church that is based in Rome. Somebody correct me if I am wrong here.

As for the charismatics, or evanglical Catholics and the like, those are "movements" that are IN the Catholic Church. They just emphasize certain things. They are not spilt from the Catholic Church and not split from all other Catholics.

[Theresa]

I think I am right about rites: From the Catholic Encyclopedia

"But, supposing uniformity in essentials and in faith, the authority of the Church has never insisted on uniformity of rile; Rome has never resented the fact that other people have their own expressions of the same truths. The Roman Rite is the most, venerable, the most archaic, and immeasurably the most important of all, but our fellow Catholics in the East have the same right to their traditional liturgies as we have to ours. Nor can we doubt that other rites too have many beautiful prayers and ceremonies which add to the richness of Catholic liturgical inheritance.

A list of Catholic rites:

The liturgical languages used by Catholics are:

1. Latin in the Roman, Milanese, and Mozarabic Rites (except in parts of Dalmatia).

2. Greek in the Byzantine Rite (not exclusively).

3. Syriac in the Syrian, Maronite, Chaldean, and Malabar Rites.

4. Coptic in the Coptic Rite.

5. Armenian by all the Churches of that rite.

6. Arabic by the Melchites (Byzantine Rite).

7. Slavonic by Slavs of the Byzantine Rite and (in Glagolitic letters) in the Roman Rite in Dalmatia.

8. Georgian (Byzantine Rite).

9. Rumanian (Byzantine Rite).

All are Catholic!

[Theresa]

Let's just put it this way. If a census was taken and one of the questions was: Are you a Christian? the Christians answer would be YES. Then if asked what denomination the Catholic would answer, Catholic. The Protestant would say, Presbyterian, Methodist, Lutheran, Seventh Day Adventist, Bible Christian, Church of Christ, Baptist, Nazerine, Episcopal and any number of denominations starting with the word REFORMED.

[Salvation]

Thanks for that list, Theresa!

[Theresa]

" There are various ways to follow Christ under the leadership of the pope - but there is a unity of leadership, belief, morality, doctrine and the essentials of worship (sacraments). These are not denominations at all. "

Right. I would like to see the collective Protestant churches try to write a Universal Catechism like the one the RCC has. They could NOT do it because one denomination does not believe in water baptism, another goes to church on Saturday a third won't sing in church, some are Armenians, some Calvinists, some are pre-trib some post trib. The RCC has ONE Catechism, it is the NORM for of all Catholic beliefs about the Bible and Tradition.

[exnavy]

One reason that so many variaties exist is the input of human interpetation of the bible into the church.

Many of us christians fail to detect the "morality" of the roman catholic faith.

[A.J.Armitage]

He is, as far as I know, a communicant in good standing with his parish. In other words, he is in communion with the Pope, which I think has more bearing on the question than your opinions.

[Catholicguy]

<> To be Catholic, one must be Baptised and maintain the Bonds of Unity in Worship, Doctrine, Authority. Sever one of those Bonds and one is CINO, like your rep

As to the number of Protestant denominations, what number should we use? 10,000, 20,000, 30,000...suggestions?<>

[dadwags]

"My state representative is a pro-choice Catholic "

___________________________________________________________

"pro-choice" (pro-abortion) Catholic is, IMHO, an oxymoron .

[biblewonk]

It's almost as if they think all Catholic churches are the same. I know a Catholic lady whose 'priest' said it is ok to think of God as female if she wants to.

[IGNATIUS]

The differences separating major Protestant denominations are not trivial.

Am a "cradle" Methodist whose parents left this church in the 50's when it became infiltrated with top communist clergy promoting a vacuous so-called social gospel.Five years of Southern Baptist "once saved--always saved" plus endoftheworld datesetting Rapture nonsense was enough.Church of Christ really tried to get it right with weekly communion,accapella singing,and acceptance of reality one can lose salvation ie works/behavior matters.However Christianity "started" in the 1700's with the Alexander Campbell.

Have been Eastern Orthodox for fifteen years.I am welcomed at any ethnic parish as we share doctrine and all utilize the stirring 1600 year old Liturgy of St.John Chrysostom.Eucharist is served at each liturgy.The overwhelming beauty and mystery of the ancient sacraments,feasts,iconography,fasts,scripture readings,services and music are but thinly sketched in Protestantism.The subtle yet strong emphasis upon the remembrance of death and judgement gives strength to bear life's cross with courage and to constantly temper one's behaviour.

Please come,visit and worship with us next years Pascha service typically 2-4 wks after Western Easter---or anytime for that matter.