Posted on 10/03/2002 9:31:15 AM PDT by patent
Edited on 04/13/2004 1:40:00 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
John Paul II is a saint machine.
The 82-year-old pontiff heads into his 24th year of papacy this month having named an astonishing 463 saints -- so far. On Sunday, he declares yet one more.
For Roman Catholics, who believe God makes saints and the pope discerns them, this is one eagle-eyed pope. He has recognized more saints than any pope in history -- more, in fact, than all the popes of the past four centuries combined.
(Excerpt) Read more at usatoday.com ...
patent
If I bumped you to this thread you are back on the list.
For anyone else, let me know if you want on or off the list. Click my screen name for a description.
patent +AMDG
God's continuing grace to you.
This one obviously doesn't believe in intercessory prayer.
It's funny, patent; there are so many unchurched in the world, and all these nut-cases have to do is complain about a busy and active old shepherd. JPII has been a thorn in their side for his entire pontificate. I hope he reigns another twenty years!
JPII has been a champion saintmaker, hasn't he? I've always thought he ties in a blamelss, holy life lived as Christ exhorted us to live, with his call to our own personal holiness. He shows us that personal holiness can be achieved by ordinary sinful people just like us, and he also shows us that more than just a couple of people are not afraid to live their lives following Jesus.
Reluctant to take issue out of respect for you,Oh, hey! Please, take issue with me. It does not bother me that you disagree with me, or argue with me. Frankly, I'm likely to enjoy the debate. As long as we are civil, I will rarely be bothered in the least by your disagreement. I am at least as disagreeable as anyone else, so I would hardly be the one to cast stones at you for that. ;-)
I would yet say, as we've exchanged on threads before, that I remain very disturbed at this Pope's sense of moral relativism.Moral relativism:
Moral relativism, as opposed to other forms of relativism, is the view that moral standards are grounded only in social custom. The most famous statement of relativism in general is by the ancient Greek sophist Protagoras (480-411 BCE.): "Man is the measure of all things," or in a more complete and contemporary translation, "A human being is the measure of all things - of things that are, that they are, and of things that are not that they are not."I don’t see the Pope as a moral relativist. It is clear that he has adhered to traditional bottom line morals, and views them as coming from God. At the same time, his theological framework is often set in a very modern set. That is, he approaches things with a newer way of thinking, without becoming a modern relativist.
What he has done is remain a strict traditionalist about what is right or wrong, and indicated that this is unchanging, but has done so within a very modern philosophical style. His genius or failing will be how successfully he incorporates that style into Traditional Catholic teachings. He is not the first to do something of this nature. Some of the Church’s greatest doctors radically changed the Church’s theological styles, without changing the bottom line, by incorporating the styles of others or of (then) modern times. They were often greatly criticized by others inside and outside the Church when they did so. On Aquinas, for example:
It is not possible to characterize the method of St. Thomas by one word, unless it can be called eclectic. It is Aristotelean, Platonic, and Socratic; it is inductive and deductive; it is analytic and synthetic. He chose the best that could he found in those who preceded him, [Patent's note: including from some prominent pagans.]carefully sifting the chaff from the wheat, approving what was true, rejecting the false. His powers of synthesis were extraordinary. No writer surpassed him in the faculty of expressing in a few well-chosen words the truth gathered from a multitude of varying and conflicting opinions; and in almost every instance the student sees the truth and is perfectly satisfied with St. Thomas's summary and statement. Not that he would have students swear by the words of a master. In philosophy, he says, arguments from authority are of secondary importance; philosophy does not consist in knowing what men have said, but in knowing the truth (In I lib. de Coelo, lect. xxii; II Sent., D. xiv, a. 2, ad 1um). He assigns its proper place to reason used in theology (see below: Influence of St. Thomas), but he keeps it within its own sphere. Against the Traditionalists the Holy See has declared that the method used by St. Thomas and St. Bonaventure does not lead to Rationalism (Denzinger-Bannwart, n. 1652). Not so bold or original in investigating nature as were Albertus Magnus and Roger Bacon, he was, nevertheless, abreast of his time in science, and many of his opinions are of scientific value in the twentieth century. Take, for instance, the following: "In the same plant there is the two-fold virtue, active and passive, though sometimes the active is found in one and the passive in another, so that one plant is said to be masculine and the other feminine" (3 Sent., D. III, Q. ii, a 1).History will judge JPII on his success with this. I think it is far to early to tell how well he has done, and I don’t know that I am capable of doing so by myself. I personally prefer a more old fashioned approach then he takes, and so he makes me uncomfortable at times. Though his approach makes me uncomfortable, I suspect that he has largely succeeded in this. He has not faired as well elsewhere, IMHO (such as Church discipline).
Hence I would certainly once again be interested in your take on this thread, #s 6, 10 & 11.I’ll stop over.
God's continuing grace to you.To you as well,
Dominus Vobiscum
patent +AMDG
Thanks for stopping by, objecting to the Pope’s canonizations, and with the likes of the more liberal dissenters quoted above, fully rounding out the proof of my point. I had a strange feeling I could count on you.Those who object are all wacky dissenters.It is not wacky to believe that a man who was short-tempered, dishonest and vain should not be canonized.
patent +AMDG
there are so many unchurched in the world, and all these nut-cases have to do is complain about a busy and active old shepherd.Says a lot, IMHO.
patent +AMDG
Mommy to one little princess (4) and one little prince (born 9/5/02)Hey! Congratulations! Wonderful news. I don’t know what your experience will be, but our boys are very different from out daughter, though they often like to play together.
patent +AMDG
I've always contended that extremism is a vice. Becoming an extremist places one on the slippery slope to heterodoxy! Here is yet another example of both left and right extremisms!
Damn. That lets me out.
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