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ZERO-TOLERANCE POLICY STILL BASICALLY INTACT, SAY 2 U.S. BISHOPS
EWTN.com/Zenit.org ^ | 11-12-02 | Zenit.org

Posted on 11/12/2002 7:45:51 AM PST by Salvation

ZERO-TOLERANCE POLICY STILL BASICALLY INTACT, SAY 2 U.S. BISHOPS

Revised Proposal on Clergy Abuse Builds on Dallas Norms, They Contend

WASHINGTON, D.C., NOV. 7, 2002 (Zenit.org).- The president of the U.S. bishops' conference contradicted widespread media reports alleging that the Holy See had rejected the policy suggested by the American bishops last June.

"Contrary to many news reports," Bishop Wilton Gregory said in a statement, "the Holy See did not reject or even 'soften' this work. In fact, it [remains] the foundation for what will become particular law in the United States."

In a letter dated Oct. 14 to Bishop Gregory, Cardinal Giovanni Battista Re, prefect of the Congregation for Bishops, said the norms approved in Dallas, Texas, last June "can be the source of confusion and ambiguity."

Yet, Bishop William Lori of Bridgeport, one of the four American bishops who participated in discussions of the proposed policy in Rome, agreed the revised proposal -- the product of a mixed U.S.-Vatican commission -- is not a retreat from the zero-tolerance position which came out of Dallas.

"No one remains in ministry who is a threat to children and young people," Bishop Lori said during a press conference Nov. 2.

Bishop Gregory summarized the effects of the law as follows: "This particular law will provide every diocese in the country with standards in canon law for protecting children and young people, reaching out to victims, assessing allegations against clergy, with the benefit of the advice of competent lay persons, and for keeping from ministry anyone who would harm children."

The updated policy calls for tribunals to hear the cases of accused priests and mandates that guilty clerics -- including those who committed offenses years ago -- be removed from Church work.

"Anyone who has committed even a single act of sexual abuse of children is permanently banned from ministry," Bishop Lori said.

Responding to criticisms from some quarters that the new policy would curtail the involvement of lay people in the disciplinary process, Bishop Lori said that lay sexual-abuse review boards would still participate in preliminary investigations of allegations of sexual abuse in an advisory capacity.

Furthermore, he said that the Church tribunals which in most instances would wield the ultimate decision-making power are made up of judges -- usually priests, canon lawyers and assessors -- who may or may not be lay people.

Bishop Lori characterized the revisions to the Dallas policy as a response to concerns from the Holy See about the lack of clear juridical procedure for handling allegations of sexual abuse by a priest.

Saying that the charter approved in Dallas had been drafted "rather hastily," Bishop Lori continued: "If you're going to go forward and deal with this, it's better to have clarity. And I think we now have a much greater degree of clarity. The zero-tolerance policy very much survives."

The revised norms will be presented to the U.S. bishops at their meeting next week.


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; General Discusssion; History; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: bernadin; catholiclist; ewtn; freemasonry; knights; priests; sexualabuse; war
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To: Coleus
http://www.rcf.org/docs/beginningoftheend.htm

<>Cardinal Bernardin link<>
21 posted on 11/12/2002 10:46:29 AM PST by Catholicguy
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To: Salvation
Gosh, and insisting on lots of legalistic due process for clerics and a statute of limitations on defrockings strengthens the document sooooooooo much. Makes me wish that the Pope was our head of state, he's so strict with his people.

Yup, the statute of limitations and due process - those are sure scriptural principles to be applied to those who claim to have a calling from God.

22 posted on 11/12/2002 11:06:01 AM PST by Chancellor Palpatine
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To: Desdemona
They just tightened up the whole thing.

If you repeat it to yourself enough, you might even start believing it, and it will be less of a mischaracterization.

23 posted on 11/12/2002 11:08:35 AM PST by Chancellor Palpatine
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
If you repeat it to yourself enough, you might even start believing it, and it will be less of a mischaracterization.

You keep making snide comments and I'll ask the Blessed Mother to pray for you.
24 posted on 11/12/2002 11:12:18 AM PST by Desdemona
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To: Catholicguy
Thanks...There are two sides to every story; however, that article contains a lot of conjecture without any proof to back up most of their statements.

There is tangible evidence that the man made a false accusation against the Cardinal--his own words recorded in depositions, that's a fact that can be checked out and be documented.

I can say that Catholic Guy received an award from the masons and put in on a weblink too.

Zero tolerance doesn't work in the schools and it won't work in the church.
25 posted on 11/12/2002 1:05:56 PM PST by Coleus
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To: Coleus
I agree with you about zero tolerance,it was just a silly attempt to showboat and please the media.

But,Bernardin is another story.Despite the fact that one of my very favorite priests,Father Niehaus defends him,I can connect Bernardin with just about every homosexual appeasing bishop in this country.

He headed up the bishops'Conferences during the years that they lied to the Vatican,stonewalled all Catholic pleas for teaching Truth and stopping liturgical abuse,wrecking churches,and destroying tradition. He was a schmoozer and duplicitous.He steamrolled over the orthodox bishops and supported every piece of nonCatholic catholicism introduced.

I have personally attended seminars and classes where bishops praised him to the heavens,Gumbleton was one I particularly remember and all of the Call To Action people were there remembering "our brother Joseph".If I hadn't already suspected his involvement with things unCatholic that particular evening would have convinced me without any other knowledge.I know I cannot convince you,and I would not even want to but be cautious when you use him to exemplify the the possibility of the innocence of some accused priests.We who believe that truth telling is imperative have a much more difficult time when we find information we have used is incorrect than do those,who believe that truth is just one more thing subject to opinion and change according to the way the wind blows.

26 posted on 11/12/2002 1:34:44 PM PST by saradippity
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To: saradippity; Coleus
sara, I'm somewhat glad you got the same vibes I did...

Something with the whole Bernardine situation always seemed off. I'm not sure what it was, but what we got was not the whole story.

One Sunday the in-residence priest at my parents' parish, who was a close friend of Bernardine (and a flamer himself, but I'm sure not active) used the pulpit for catharsis. He was absolutely sincere, but I still think there was to Bernardine than met the eye.

We probably will never know the whole story either with both of them gone.
27 posted on 11/12/2002 1:42:26 PM PST by Desdemona
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To: Desdemona; saradippity; Salvation; Catholicguy
Remember the subject of the thread is, zero tolerance. The Bernadin post was an example of why I don't like zero tolerance policies-- his liberalism, Masonic ties or being a queer had nothing to do with the subject matter. Let's face it, he was inappropriately charged by a guy who just didn't like priests or the Catholic Church. I always thought the masons wore funny hats and ran spaghetti dinners, when did they become satanic and anti Catholic?

About 5 yrs' ago, I picked up my local paper and much to my astonishment was the name of a high school classmate of mine on the top headline. He, a school teacher, had been charged with sexual abuse of a girl while working at a summer camp. Guess what happened? After having his reputation besmirched and no job for a year, it turns out the girl made it up. And of course, since she was a minor and a special ed. student, she was never charged with making false claims and perjury. So much for zero tolerance. At least he was able to get his job back.

Also, a priest I know gave tuition assistance to a single mom and her daughter at the parish school, after the tuition assistance stopped, the girl graduated 8th grade, mom wanted to send her daughter to a Catholic High School, guess what happened? Sex abuse allegations. It's so easy to do.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/745870/posts
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/695054/posts
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/682754/posts
28 posted on 11/12/2002 4:02:18 PM PST by Coleus
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To: Coleus
I agreed with you about the dangers of zero toletance. I also said what I was writing re Bernardin was only to give you a "heads up".

Have you read all of the many Papal Bulls and Encyclicals and other papal documents about the men with funny hats? The latest canon law about them used "secret societies" rather than calling them by name when saying that membership was forbidden to Catholics. When some priests in this country said there was no longer a proscription against joining them the Vatican responded to the direct question by saying it was still forbidden.

Can you tell me where to confirm that the accuser exonerated Cardinal Bernardin by more than "I can't really remember what happened"?

29 posted on 11/12/2002 5:08:20 PM PST by saradippity
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To: saradippity
Can you tell me where to confirm that the accuser exonerated Cardinal Bernardin by more than "I can't really remember what happened"?>>>

Nope, I'll have to read the deposition. The charges were dropped so that must mean there was no evidence. This guy probably had many psychological problems and hated the church.
30 posted on 11/12/2002 5:23:22 PM PST by Coleus
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To: Coleus
Remeber that their meeting tomorrow will deal with this issue. So you are right.......what we have now is conjecture.
31 posted on 11/12/2002 6:28:15 PM PST by Salvation
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Comment #32 Removed by Moderator

To: Desdemona
As I read it, canon law is tougher than our civil law. What galls me is that it wasn't being applied by the bishops. They failed to use the power that the Church put in their hands.
33 posted on 11/12/2002 6:57:35 PM PST by RobbyS
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To: saradippity
Cardinal Bernardin perplexes me, really.

I have heard so many people I respect (RJNeuhaus is one) say that Bernardin was a wonderful man and loved the church and did so much good.

A few months ago I was in a store located within the world headquarters for Father Patrick Peyton's rosary crusade... now this place is pretty orthodox and the priests are Holy Cross priests and seem fine. I noticed Bernardin's book on the shelf and remarked that Bernardin seems to generate a lot of controversy. The priest was perplexed and said that he has only heard good things about Bernardin... go figure?

34 posted on 11/12/2002 7:16:08 PM PST by american colleen
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
1. Zero tolerance upon proof is not extreme.

2. Priests more tollerant than lawyers? If you are a lawyer and you steal money out of a trust account, there is ZERO statute of limitations. A lawyer's license is always subject to being pulled for any misconduct whenever.

If a priest molests a child there should be no problem in pulling him out of dealing with the public at the very minimum.

3. "Queer" priests have no place in the church. It is w amazing the denial of the homosexual crowd who argue an adult male priest placing his genitals in another male (minor or not) is not a homosexual act.

--to borrow from another thread on FR. "geneder roles are taught and subjective but homosexual behavior is nature"?

4. The American Bishops better not make this a show boating exercise. This had better be real and they had better get some religion. The irony will be that the american branch of the church will be destroyed from within by the very forces the church has preached as a danger. They will become the ultimate proof of the evil corruption by the left on morals.
35 posted on 11/12/2002 7:37:29 PM PST by longtermmemmory
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To: longtermmemmory
"Being homosexual means you can't be a priest"

Yes, I can understand if he were a practicing homosexual. But, what about the one who recognizes he has that tendency but with the grace of God he is trying to overcome it. Remaining devout to his calling, he sruggles inwardly daily to overcome certain desires. Do we not give this priest an opportunity that he may, again with the grace of God, to overcome his tendency to and become a productive individual. I think compassion should be shown towards these priests and those who openly flaunt their lifestyles should be gone forever, zero tolerance would be the credo. I'm afraid a kind of 'witch hunt' will ensue and any priest who doesn't exhibit a 'certain manner' would be labeled and falsely accused. Yes, do 'tiptoe' for you no not what you are doing. Peace

36 posted on 11/12/2002 9:48:22 PM PST by ejo
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To: sandyeggo
You're welcome.
37 posted on 11/12/2002 10:22:28 PM PST by Salvation
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To: ejo
"Being homosexual means you can't be a priest"


"Yes, I can understand if he were a practicing homosexual. ..."


__________________

Hogwash. This is the weak leftist psychobable. Homosexual behavior is learned. Your pop-psychology falls into the homosexual propaganda. This is the same wrong thinking that removed homosexual conduct as an illness in the DSM-III and pedophilia from phychological disorders in DSM-IV. (at least until internal uproar cause the revision to uncerimoniously put in back in DSM-IV-RV).

There is ZERO hard science to support your "tendencies" argument. The nature vs nurture argument has been adressed in other threads in FR.

No homosexual priests. period. No maried priests period. No convicted child molesters. period.
38 posted on 11/13/2002 4:26:50 AM PST by longtermmemmory
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To: Coleus
There is tangible evidence that the man made a false accusation against the Cardinal--his own words recorded in depositions, that's a fact that can be checked out and be documented.

<> Do you have access to the deposition? I heard it reported as I mentioned - that the gentleman did not say his accusations were lies, rather, he said his memory had been so damaged by his AIDS that he wasn't able to be certain the charges were true.

The other things mentioned in the piece about Card Bernardin are very disturbing. I gues one can just blow them all off and say they are unproven....no pattern heree...just move along.....nothing to see.

I will just speak for myself. I have always opposed the Masons. I do not plan to schedule a homosexual glee club to sing at my funeral. I don not think "listening sessions" with proabortionists are helpful. I do not think encouraging homosexuals to become priests and Bishops is helpful...Call me crazy....<>

39 posted on 11/13/2002 5:42:00 AM PST by Catholicguy
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To: longtermmemmory
Priest, etc,etc,etc,

Then what have we left?Somewhere, somehow some compassion has to be exercised. What would Jesus do? When he Himself sat with the sinners and the so-called intelligansia of that era riduculed Him for just doing what a lot of us are doing at this moment. I am not defending the militant homosexual, they will have to answer to the Almighty when their time comes. But I'm addressing that small percentage, why not extend that bit of compassion and not bitterness as they struggle to be chaste in their calling. You may think of me as naive when it comes to homosexuality, BUT I am trying to walk in their shoes for the moment and to experience their pain in their personal struggles. At this time prayer would help immensely instead of beratement to these lost souls.

40 posted on 11/13/2002 8:22:02 AM PST by ejo
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