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To: RobbyS
<> A good question. The answer is that Rome, the Pope, the Magisterium decides what is and isn't Tradition. Ultima and his ilk think they define what is and isn't Traditon.

The Pope occupies the seat of Divinely-constituted authority and Ultima and his ilk are slaves of Satan in their opposition to Divinely-constituted authority. It really is that clear-cut and straightforward. It is mere Christianity. :)<>

10 posted on 11/25/2002 5:05:23 AM PST by Catholicguy
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To: Catholicguy
Your notion that the Pope decides what is Tradition is absurd. It places the pope above the Holy Spirit and makes him the master of Tradition, not its servant. If he had such authority, he would not have to take a solemn oath on ascending to the papacy to guard Tradition and not to change it. But he does take such an oath under pain of excommunication. This is Ratzinger's point when he reminds us Vatican I set clear limits on the papacy. The pope is not, he says, "an absolute monarch". His power is limited by Tradition which is something he receives and is obliged to pass on. Papal power exists precisely to protect Tradition, not to undermine it or even attack it as the post-conciliar popes have done.

Here is the exact wording of the papal oath: "I vow to change nothing of the received Tradition, and nothing thereof I have found before me guarded by my God-pleasing predecessors, to encroach upon, to alter, or to permit any innovation therein." And here is the Vatican I statement on the limits of papal power: "For the Holy Spirit was not promised to the Successors of Peter that by His revelation they might disclose new doctrine, but that by His help they might guard the revelation transmitted through the apostles and the deposit of faith." This is not done when a pope allows suppression of traditional doctrines out of an exaggerated ecumenism, or when he awards with the red hat apostates who question traditional doctrines or when he invents his own liturgy to replace one which had been divinely inspired.
13 posted on 11/25/2002 6:42:41 AM PST by ultima ratio
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To: Catholicguy
The Pope is a divinely constituted authority, yes. No one argues that. To call me a "Slave of Satan" is stupid, however, when I am merely pointing out that the Lord has set limits on the papacy. You do not recognize these--which is why you are essentially a pope-worshiper and choose the pope over tradition. You do not mind any radical change, so long as the Pope wills it. By choosing thus, you are placing the Pope before the faith. This is to your own discredit, not mine.
16 posted on 11/25/2002 6:56:54 AM PST by ultima ratio
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To: Catholicguy
Even Luther and the early Reformers took this route. They claimed to read tradition better than Rome. It was a while before they outright rejected tradition as a concept, or rather reduced it to what is contained in Scripture. Calvin made themost logical case for the Reformation, but of course many Protestants rejected him as their master and now he is generally ignored.
27 posted on 11/25/2002 10:04:08 AM PST by RobbyS
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