My "Take" on the Current Rapture-of-the-Church Craze

IntellectualConservative.com ^ | December 4, 2002 | J. Grant Swank, Pastor

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

I know Neal Boortz has the Church of the Painful Truth; I can only imagine what the good pastor's church's nickname is.

Its gotta be "The church of whats happening now"

BigMack

[drstevej]

CHRISTMAS KINDNESSES

We were seated beneath the ... Yad, yada, Yada...

[Ex-Wretch]

LOL! Do da words clymer and big time ring a bell?

[drstevej]

***I can only imagine what the good pastor's church's nickname is.***

"The Church In A Box" according to Grant. Read the story...

===
Ousted? Start Your Own Church
by Grant Swank

So you have been ousted from your denomination? your church?

Is there a nucleus of believers who trust your integrity? Do they number half a dozen or more?

If so, start your own church. I did.

I started the New Hope Church the day after I was betrayed by the power clique of the system. Here's how it fell in place, thanks to God's mentoring:

The very next Sunday we met on the lawn of one of the new church's parishioners. It was in August--a gorgeous Lord's Day morn.

During worship, I was ordained into our evangelical, independent house-church by the newly formed church board. I was handed an ordination certificate by the board secretary. She crafted it via her computer.

The new church board was introduced and then prayed over.

From that Sunday till today, we are still the New Hope Church, gathering on Sunday mornings and evenings as well as Wednesday evenings in our homes.

After a year or so, we dissolved the church board. We retained a treasurer. We also have two laypersons as money counters. That's it.

We obviously have dissolved monthly board meetings since there is no board. We therefore have no annual meetings, no elections. No need for them any more.

We have also dissolved formal church membership with its usual membership roster. No need for them.

How then do we function?

Quite simply--purposefully. Something like the Early Church, actually.

If any worshiper has something to present to the gathering, he does so. There are no formalities.

What if someone wants to send an offering to a mission work? Then that someone presents the matter for discussion and prayer. If the consensus is to do so, we do it.

That is the format for anything seen through by our New Hope Church.

Over the years, we have dispensed with our usual Sunday service sometimes to attend a worship in a neighboring sanctuary--Christmas cantatas, gospel concerts, special speakers, seasonal occasions, and the like.

Once when a nearby new congregation was in its start-up stage, New Hope Church met with those worshipers on Sunday mornings as I preached to the two groups united in worship. That new congregation had yet to call a full-time pastor, so they needed a Sunday preacher. What a caring fellowship we enjoyed for that interim.

Every third Sunday morning or so, New Hope Church has a fellowship meal together after worship.

In summers, we may meet atop a mountain nearby on Sunday and Wednesday evenings. Or we may meet outside on a parishioner's lawn. What an expansive, outdoor sanctuary of grandeur with blue sky for ceiling and flowerbeds encircling us for walls.

From time to time, we observe communion and baptism. We regularly have prayers of healing for the sick.

Our worship style is simple: singing, testimonies / sharing, prayer, offering, sermon or Bible study, closing prayer. The gathering lasts an hour.

It has all worked quite comfortably.

What do we have for churchly furnishings? What we have can fit into a large box. In fact, we call ourselves "The Church In A Box." In that plastic container are a cross, offering basket, hymnals and chorus books. That's it. All other provisions--chairs, tables, heating, air conditioning, lighting, a dwelling, refreshments, rest room facilities, parking spaces--are right there at our own residences.

In addition, we have saved on money. No more expenses for a church building, lawn mowing, parking lot plowing, and more.

We also have no more ecclesiastical overseers telling us what to do, when to do it, how much to pay-up, what reports to fill out and mail in. We have no more church politics to contend with, no more under cuttings, no more organizational unfairness and anxieties to untie or tolerate.

In other words, we have been set free! The only one now in control "above us" is God--alone!

When visitors worship with us, they leave us with astounding remarks of commendation for our work of simple worship style. They find it refreshing--"something like the Early Church," they often comment.

And that is true. We feel a bonding with the first century believers in that we are indeed keeping alive their worship style.

Who could have ever dreamt that "doing church" could actually be so basic, so uncomplicated?

Well, we have not only dreamt it. We have lived it and would not give it up.

Source:

http://www.woundedshepherds.com/insightsarchives.htm

[grantswank]

CHRISTMAS IS GOD BIRTHING


Christmas is celebrating the conceiving and birthing of Jesus, the Christ.

Mary was His mother, the human channel. The Holy Spirit was His Father, the divine channel. Consequently, Jesus is the God-man, the only personage of His kind in all history.
Christmas' new life is the zenith of God's delight in birthing miraculously, such being both prelude and postlude to the virgin conception of Jesus Christ.

For instance, at the creation of the first human, Adam, God birthed this man from the earth. Granted, it was a secondary creation to underline the human's need for humility; nevertheless, it was a miraculous birthing--from dust to man. Only God could have done it.

From the womb of divine grace was born the original human being, the height of creation's journey.

Further in history, Abraham and Sarah were promised a son, the child of promise. God gospeled them this; therefore, it was mandated to come to pass.

However, as the couple grew older, they passed child-bearing ages. Nevertheless, while Abraham was l00 and Sarah was 90, they experienced a miracle conception in an elderly woman's womb. Birthing God miraculously sparked Isaac's life in a womb supposedly not able to carry a child. There is no other explanation possible than that: it was sheer miracle.

Adam and Abraham foreshadow Zechariah. This Jewish priest was informed by God's angel, Gabriel, that his elderly wife, Elizabeth, would become pregnant. For this to occur, a miracle would have to take place in her aged body. It did take place. Birthing God once again saw to it.

From Elizabeth's womb came John the Baptist, kinsman to Jesus. The conception / birthing was possible only because God oversaw it.

At the same time Elizabeth was overjoyed with her pregnancy, Mary was overawed by Gabriel's annunciation of the Messiah's conception in her womb. However, Mary was not confronting the barrenness of old age; she was dealing with never having had sex for she was a teen-aged virgin.

The GOSPELS inform us that Mary's conception occurred miraculously by way of the Holy Spirit--the birthing God.
Both Abraham and Sarah as well as Zechariah and Elizabeth realized God's miraculous energy set loose in conceiving power within wombs that were beyond childbearing.

However, Joseph and Mary realized God's miraculous energy set loose in conceiving power within a virgin's womb. Both the elderly and the young came upon God's conceiving and birthing graces--miraculously so.

No wonder then that this Messiah, when seeing through His public ministry for three years, informed already born Nicodemus that he had to be "born".

How? Nicodemus, Jewish religious leader, asked of the Nazareth rabbi.

Jesus answered by telling him that the birthing was to be in his soul, not his body. Further, it was to be miraculously conceived by none other than the same Holy Spirit who had conceived Jesus in Mary's young womb.

From that day till this, believers have thanked God for
the "born again experience"--a personal spiritual reality possible only because of God's gracious miracle energy.

All Christians then come into a child-to-Father relationship with God by being born in the soul--a personal Christmas, indeed. The Holy Spirit conceives in us His mercy by which we are adopted out of the family of satan into the family of God. There is no other explanation for this conversion happening than to state it as compassionate miracle.

Further, the wonder continues: each believer at some point in time dies. However, according to the gospel, he does not die, that is, he is not extinguished. Instead, the Holy Spirit conceives his soul into the birthing of heaven.

Just as an angel welcomed the conception of Jesus in Mary's womb--and later angelic hosts welcomed Jesus' birth--so the believer is welcomed into heaven's birthing by eternity's angels.

Just as shepherds welcomed the new-born Jesus in the manger, so those redeemed lambs who precede us to glory welcome believers birthed through heaven's gates.

It is an on-going message of wonder, grace and miracle: God is intent on conceiving and birthing life--from Adam till the end of earthly time.

Even eternal life is never-ending birthing goodness, holiness and love--that beyond human understanding and explanation. God sees to it.

Christmas, for this earth's stay, is then the apex of that marvelous story.

". . .glory to God in the highest. . ."

Such a blessing is Christmas!

[grantswank]

CHRISTMAS BLESSES SMALL


In an age of monster houses and humongous malls, it is a breath of fresh air to come upon Christmas.

In a time of church-growth-regardless and humans-turned-into-stats, it is such a break from the religious strain to come upon Christmas.

After all, Christmas offers nothing but small.

There is a loft at the end of a horse-parking lot outside a nondescript tourist home. Nothing impressive, really.

There are inside that loft a few roosters and chickens, some hay rats playing tag and a few donkeys ignoring it all. Not all that sheik.

There is alongside the donkey a cow's trough filled with sticky straw, scratchy-and-all-that to the human flesh. Not all that bed-n-breakfast variety, actually.

There is inside that cow's trough a tiny baby--making funny faces, sleeping on occasion, crying some, goo-gooing into His mother's kind eyes and then scanning this foster father's rough beard. Not really a royal Kodak moment.

There is nothing Trump Tower about this whole scene, let alone Crystal Cathedral nor St. Peter's in Rome.

Nevertheless, there it is---plain and simple--and small small small.

Which brings to my memory a little church atop a village hill in Nova Scotia. Plus a suburban church outside Boston where a couple dozen gather faithfully. Still another typical New England sanctuary in hamlet Monson.

Not much on the charts. Not much to report for the figures. Not much to write up in the annals of numerical catalogs.

Just a humble spot here and there--small.

It is not that "small" is more holy than large. It is just that God has a particular liking for small. And humble. And out-of-the-way. And at times even downright scuttle-butt, like Nazareth.

Yet what marvel is wrapped up in small when God takes hold of the trimmings! From a manger comes the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. From the stable comes the name Mary, a Jewess remembered for all time for her lowliness. Plus a carpenter Joe who has been especially revered by men world-'round--generation upon generation.

It reminds me of people I've met in my own sojourn. They were usually the peasant types, poor and not that much into worldly power or prestige. You might call them "small."

Yet out of those broken, nobody-from-noplace lives have come such utter kindness, sacrifice and wisdom that would set any Bethlehem head aspinning.

That's why I tend to gravitate toward the border people, that is, those who are often lined up against the wall, sometimes even dumped out because they don't count.

I find them particularly jeweled inside, where it counts. I have discovered that God does, too.

So the next time that you are tempted to be enamored by the large, big, blown-out-of-proportions religious this-or-that, why not count yourself out for a change?

When you do, you may just find yourself all the way back to Bethlehem. And what a blessing you will come upon--roosters, shepherds, hay and all.

Please start this Christmas. In so doing, you will come upon God's real Christmas--your reason for breathing.

[drstevej]

What courses did you take at Harvard?

[grantswank]

somehow with 'dr' in front of your whatever, i had thought better of your intelligence.

but over and over and over again you have proven yourself to be exceptionally sophomoric. and one wonders how much there is your brain cavity when spending so many many hours at this particular site, day after day.

is your retort lineage on this site all that you can discover to give you ego fulfillment; appears to be so. sad.

the proof seems to be in the pudding, drstevej. not very tasty pudding at that. eh?

[grantswank]

when steve has no words of import left, he always resorts to the graphics of the local day care.

by the way, spam is quite delicious with mustard and white bread. you appear to have an oversupply of spam; thought you would want another way by which to utilize it. try it, you'll like it--between white bread, that is.

[grantswank]

your bible supply line-up is exceptionally lame.

go back to mt 24:29-31 for the short of it. god has revealed the truth there in simple form--children of very young age can get it. no need to do cartwheels with scripture that is lame exegesis in the end.

[grantswank]

IN CHRISTMAS GOD GAVE US HIS WORD


When God spoke Christmas, He gave us His Word.

“And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us”. John 1:14

What higher gift can be given a person that another person’s word—his integrity, his promise, his very personality presence?

God spoke. Word was created in Mary’s womb. That is the definition of the virgin birth. No mortal can explain it. It is not meant to be explained. It is meant to be received. But one can only receive it when one believes it.

Those who have academic difficulties with the virgin birth have yet to get hold of that divine premise. If there is ever a holy mystery that is not to be tampered with by human logic, it is the virgin birth. Mystery it is. Then leave it at that.

When God speaks, does one need any further implementation? Any further guarantee of truth? Any more than that—God speaks! He gives us His word.

In the case of Bethlehem, the word became baby boy laid in a bag of straw. How unique and beautiful. How tantalizing and warm. Therefore, don’t touch it with human reason. Believe it. Receive it.

When God speaks His Word, He shares with mere mortals His eternal mind. Can you believe that? What an awesome God to share His thought processes with damaged brains as ours.

But God goes further than that. He then invites us to take His mind into our own minds. “Have the mind of Christ.” Unfathomable!

How can the divine thought even wedge into the human brain cell? Mystery. If God says it, then don’t tamper with its whatevers. Believe it. Receive it. And it is yours. You can think the thoughts of the eternal mind.

The shepherds did and so they found Jesus. The magi did and so they found Jesus. Simeon and Anna did and so they caressed Jesus. Do you? And so do you find Jesus?

Jesus, the incarnate Word, missioned out the Father’s Word plan by speaking. He, Jesus, is the One who spoke the worlds into existence. “. . .God, who created all things by Jesus”. Ephesians 3:9

Jesus told others circled about Him that He spoke to them the words of salvation. If they believed, they were saved from their sins and the sufferings of hell.

Jesus declares to every soul at the judgment his and her eternal destinies.

The power of the Word! Words speak worlds into being. Words speaks saving grace to the repentant heart. Words speak souls into their everlasting abodes.

No wonder then that the scribed Word of God—Holy Scriptures—contain words! God speaks so that the Spirit of the Eternal One creates a particular written record that is inspired, holy. By our reading, understanding, and obeying this Word we are cleansed, according to the Word.

Further, impregnated into this written Word is the living Word—Jesus, Author of our faith.

No wonder Jesus could proclaim that He pronounced the words of life!

So it was that miracles became reality by the spoken word of the Word. “Come out of him!”
Jesus exclaimed as the demons took flight.

So it was that Jesus the Word shouted to his beloved Bethany resident wrapped in grave bands: “Lazarus!” With that word, the Word brought that fellow from his tomb.

At the resurrection morning, God spoke the Word Jesus into resurrection body presence for Thomas to examine.

In other words, evidently words count a lot with the divine. He talks a lot.

So when He speaks, things happen—planets show up, souls are washed clean, dead rise from their graves, sick bodies mend, hell is created for the rebellious angels, and so on and so on and so on. It is an eternal Mind displaying Himself by words, the apex being the matchless Word fleshed out in Jesus born of Mary.

Therefore, think to yourself of the power of your own words. You say, “Shut up,” and the child cowers in the corner. You whisper, “I love you,” and another’s heart leaps into your trust.

Consequently, do not take your speaking lightly. It too can create heaven or hell. It can make a world or burst a dream. That is why on judgment day your every word is to be filtered through His holiness for its good and bad influence impacted here.

So it is that others count on your word. Therefore, when claiming yourself to be truthful, you don’t need to swear by any other authority than your word.

Now ask yourself: What more assuring present could God then give to us than His Word—eternal, holy, loving? Yet not only in written inspired speech scribed out as reading material, but just as intimately, speaking His Word onto the soft skin of a baby boy—Jesus.

Christmas is God’s Word—something precious told us and someone priceless given us.

“And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.”

[grantswank]

my studying at harvard does indeed seem to bug you much, doesn't it, drstevej? i wonder why.

it does not seem to twist anyone else out of shape.

but it appears to haunt your innards for some ego reason which is not all that unapparent.

the same with you going to all that homework to supply the specifics re: my bio. quite a profile it is; but why would you go to all that background study?

your innards are showing, drstevej. and they are not what you would want the world's mirror to show, at least not as i would size it all up. but then again. . .each to his own innards photo shot.

[drstevej]

I noticed you did not answer the question of what courses you took at Harvard. Was it more than one? Did you get a degree?

No background study was needed -- the bio was supplied by you to the site I cut and pasted from. I did notice you mentioned degrees at accredited schools but didn't say which degree was obtaioned at which school. My guess the Harvard stuff was continuing ed and not a degree, right?

Link the schools, program and the degree obtained. Example

BS Industrial Engineering Georgia Tech (1971)
ThM Historical Theology Dallas Seminary (1976)
Phd Reformation History and Theology (1988)

None of these can you match the degree and school. Example

High Point High School/ Beltsville MD
Eastern Nazarene College / Quincy MA
Harvard Divinity School / Cambridge MA
Nazarene Seminary / Kansas City MO

Earned Accredited Degrees:
BA with sociology major, literature minor
M Div in religion

[chance33_98]

go back to mt 24:29-31 for the short of it.

Let's have a look then:

Verse 31:And he shall sends his Angels with a great sound of a trumpet and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

Re 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

And this one before it:

Re 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound , the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Christ says he will send his angels who will gather his elect with the sound of the trump. We have the LAST trump in 11:5, before the reign of the beast on the earth. No more trumpets to sound.

Rev 11:15 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

So we have the last trump, rewards to the faithful, and then we proceed with the beast and the vials. In the sixth seal (well before the rise of the beast) the sun and the moon behave as Christ predicted in Matt 24:29.

It would then appear that a 'rapture' would happen before the rise of the beast and the vials of wrath are poured out - while the seals and such affected part of the earth, the vials of wrath affect the entire earth.

[Wrigley]

captalization is optional at Harvard.

[chance33_98]

As for me I have about as much college as Jesus and the apostles had.... ;)

[drstevej]

Fine by me. The school of Christ is what counts.

[malakhi]

Link the schools, program and the degree obtained.

Most people, even those who may be personally abrasive, can garner some support here from those who agree with them theologically. I must say that grantswank has earned the dubious distinction of alienating everyone on the religion forum.

[drstevej]

I think you have the same impression that the rest of us have of grantswank, except for az4vlad.

The question is whether az4vlad is really another person and not a grantswank alter ego.