Do babies go to Heaven?

[PFKEY]

Hope no one minds the vanity too much.

I was thinking last night about this idea and was trying to make it jive somewhat with the notion of predeterminationalism if that is the correct word.

Also was curious regarding what the various Christian denominations taught on this subject.

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

Unless of course you consider Romans, where Paul says without the knowledge of the law, sin is not imputed.

Hm. What do you suppose that Paul means by this?

Let's consider a pagan cannibal in New Guinea who dies in 40 AD.
Per Romans, your thoughts?

[Jael]

Romans 1:18  For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19  ¶Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20  For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21  Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

An infant however would not be in the same category, for obvious reason.

[Cleburne]

I Peter 1:1-2:-

1Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To God's elect, strangers in the world, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, 2who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance.

I Peter 2:9:-

But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.

Romans 8:28-33:-

28And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him,[10] who[11] have been called according to his purpose. 29For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. 31What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all--how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies.

[Luna]

I believe that babies who die go to heaven.

I do not believe in predestination. We each came to earth with the ability to choose good and evil, and will be judged according to those choices. This ties in with babies going to heaven. They cannot choose good or evil. They're completely clueless. Therefore, in their innonence, they go to heaven.

As for the rest of us...well, that's why we have a Savior.

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

Posted by Jael to OrthodoxPresbyterian On Religion 12/31/2002 10:18 AM PST #22 of 24 Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 ¶Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. An infant however would not be in the same category, for obvious reason.

What "category" would an infant be in, and for what reason?

[ReformedBeckite]

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Babies can clearly see what God has made, they just don't care about who made them or how the things they see got there, All they care about are themselves, they could care less about God. As they grow up they learn that the world doesn't revolve around them. Some adults never learn it though. Even most adults don't care how things God created God got there. I believe God treats them the all the same, he looks at their heart not their size, age or cuteness.

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

I do not believe in predestination.

Then you don't believe in the Bible.

Ephesians 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Predestination is a Bible word. Saying "I don't believe in Predestination" is like saying "I don't believe in Justification" or "I don't believe in Propitiation" or "I don't believe in Salvation".

Now, at this point, I expect you'll back-track and say, "Well, I really do believe in Predestination, just not what you believe about Predestination, etc. etc."

Do that, and you'll be lying to yourself. Stop. Don't be dishonest with yourself.
Re-read what you said. It is exactly what you meant to say, after all.

You don't believe in Predestination.

That means that you don't believe in Christianity.

That means that you've got some thinking (and praying) to do.

[ReformedBeckite]

Therefore, in their innonence, they go to heaven.

They might be innocent in their outward appearance, but their heart is still at war with God. They could care less about God or anyone else, all they care about is themselves. In fact they are at war with their parents, right off the bat they start telling their parents what to do with crying. Unfortunately we don't understand them. I know that a bad example. Oh well that life.

If it's true that babies are without sin, which I don't believe, the best thing we could for them would be to kill them before they reach that Arminianist age of accountability. Well that crue isn't it. Well the facts of life sometimes are crue. That fact are we inherit Adam's sinfulness. Basically said we are born sinners, no fancy footing around it. We are born sinners, and are condemned as sinners from the beginning. Well I like to stay have more fun, but I've got other things to attend to to the night rolls around. Take care and God bless.

[sinkspur]

The prevailing view is that these souls will enjoy perfect happiness even though they do not enjoy the beatific vision.

That is not the current prevailing view.

"Baptism of desire" and the "fundamental option" assume that a Just God will give all creatures the opportunity for salvation and the beatific vision.

Just exactly how that is accomplished is pure speculation on our part.

[sinkspur]

They might be innocent in their outward appearance, but their heart is still at war with God. They could care less about God or anyone else, all they care about is themselves. In fact they are at war with their parents, right off the bat they start telling their parents what to do with crying.

This is the silliest damn thing I've ever read on the religion forum. You have no credibility, as a Christian or as a human being.

[ventana]

Obviously you are a disruptor or deranged, which, in fact, is the same thing. V's wife.

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

To: ReformedBeckite This is the silliest damn thing I've ever read on the religion forum. You have no credibility, as a Christian or as a human being. 30 posted on 12/31/2002 11:55 AM PST by sinkspur

To: ReformedBeckite Obviously you are a disruptor or deranged, which, in fact, is the same thing. V's wife. 31 posted on 12/31/2002 11:59 AM PST by ventana

Query:

The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

True, or False?
Just curious....

[RnMomof7]

The question is not should babies be saved..but should ANY be saved??

Calvinist Bump

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

Do babies go to Heaven?

Rickshaw precedes Equine.

The first question to be asked, is:
Why do babies die?

[RnMomof7]

Matthew 18:1-5 The disciples approached Jesus and said, "Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?" He called a child over, placed it in their midst, and said, "Amen, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And whoever receives one child such as this in my name receives me.

Was Jesus speaking of age or spiritual condition?

[RnMomof7]

      "WHOSOEVER WILL ... may come!"

We would agree with that Jael..but would ask who will come? We say only those drawn by the Father

[RnMomof7]

Thanks RB, Great Post ..we agree..and I have bumped:>)

[JesseShurun]

Lying little rat babies. I save them up and then buy gas.

[RnMomof7]

Nice to meet you cle..do you want on the reform bump list?

[ventana]

For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.

True or false? V's wife.