Do babies go to Heaven?

[Jael]

unless of couse mans will is more powerful than Gods?

John 3:19  And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

[rwfromkansas]

for the wages of sin is death.

Babies are sinful.

[lockeliberty]

Dang, I was expecting a thorough thrashing.

But, then again, Church tradition always supercedes God's own word.

_{(If only they could agree which tradition is the correct one)}

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

I notice no free-willers have commented on Ezekiel 36 and 37. Cat got your tongue?

We can't, we are too busy laughing at you.

BigMack

[Cleburne]

Sure.

[xzins]

That's true, but it is another answer. NOT...the answer.

I think the ultimate answer (in my opinion) is because God allows it. God's will.

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

I think the same problem is present for the Calninist as it is the Catholic. You guys say that the elect babies are saved without being born again.

I see... Straw People!!

They don't even know that they're Straw Men!!

Calvinists do not believe that "elect babies are saved without being born again".

Wanna try again, in the Bonus Round?

[rwfromkansas]

Well then.....mind explaining how the people choose to do a dang thing in that passage? Enlighten me, Oh Great One.

[Jael]

Romans 10:16  But they have **not all** obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17  **So then faith cometh by hearing**, and hearing by the **word of God**.

John 5:39  Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

[Jael]

Well, one of your people posted that. Elect babies go to heaven.

A baby can't believe, a baby can't be elected without believing.

[rwfromkansas]

Is God so weak that he can convert adults and children but not an infant? And who are you to say a baby can't believe? Have you seen a baby's mind? Do you think God is so weak that he could not cause a baby to believe?

Checkmate.

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

Posted by Jael to OrthodoxPresbyterian On Religion 12/31/2002 1:58 PM PST #66 of 109 They have not observed the Creation, as the people spoken of in the quoted passage have.

Alright... and??

FWIW, I'll stipulate that I personally believe (with the vast majority of historical Calvinist commentary) that God graciously ordains to apply the infinite Merit of Christ's atonement to those whom He has ordained to die in infancy. That said, what we have here is a clear application of Grace in the absence of volitional human choice "in favor of" that Grace.

How exactly does this aid the Arminianist position?

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Well then.....mind explaining how the people choose to do a dang thing in that passage? Enlighten me, Oh Great One.

In a nutshell, the minute you turn to Christ, you are regenerated by the Holy Spirit; you are indwelt and baptized by the Holy Spirit; you are put in the body of believers. “In that day,” God says, “I’ll put My Spirit within you.”

Now why don't you run along and read the last few chaptures of JOB.

BigMack

[rwfromkansas]

I disagree with the idea that some Calvinist have....where election is for everybody.....EXCEPT infants. That doesn't make a lick of sense to me.

[rwfromkansas]

Again, God is doing it all.....

In that day refers to when God does what he is saying he will do.

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

Well, one of your people posted that. Elect babies go to heaven. A baby can't believe, a baby can't be elected without believing.

You are presuming that people Believe in order to be Born Again (i.e., regenerated).

If, on the other hand, people are Born Again (regenerated) by the Holy Spirit in order to Believe, then infants can certainly be regenerated by the Spirit whenever He is sent upon them with regenerating power -- even in their mother's womb.

And, in the absence of formal speech to communicate their belief... well, perhaps they'll just jump for joy in their mother's womb, at the Savior's approach.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

And who are you to say a baby can't believe? Have you seen a baby's mind? Do you think God is so weak that he could not cause a baby to believe?

LOL...I know its early for you to be drinking, but it is New Years Eve.

What was that you said? Checkmate, Oh yeah right. ROFLOL.

BigMack

[lockeliberty]

Now why don't you run along and read the last few chaptures of JOB.

I like this one.

Gird up thy loins now like a man:
I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.
Wilt thou even annul my judgment?
Wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be justified?
Or hast thou an arm like God?
And canst thou thunder with a voice like him?
Deck thyself now with excellency and dignity; And array thyself with honor and majesty.
Pour forth the overflowings of thine anger;
And look upon every one that is proud, and abase him.
Look on every one that is proud,
[and] bring him low;
And tread down the wicked where they stand.
Hide them in the dust together;
Bind their faces in the hidden [place].
Then will I also confess of thee That thine own right hand can save thee.

[xzins]

Do you think God is so weak that he could not cause a baby to believe?

What is the logic used by baptists to support believer's only baptism?