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Ash Wednesday
EWTN ^ | 1996 | James Akin

Posted on 03/03/2003 5:35:48 PM PST by Salvation

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1 posted on 03/03/2003 5:35:48 PM PST by Salvation
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To: *Catholic_list; father_elijah; nickcarraway; SMEDLEYBUTLER; Siobhan; Lady In Blue; attagirl; ...
Catholic Discussion Ping!

Please notify me via Freepmail if you would like to be added to or removed from the Catholic Discussion Ping list.

2 posted on 03/03/2003 5:38:35 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: ponyespresso
I don't think you are on my ping list. YET! Ha!
3 posted on 03/03/2003 5:40:36 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation
As Mother Angelica would say, "You are awesome!!!" Thank you, Salvation, for posting this.
4 posted on 03/03/2003 8:30:53 PM PST by Siobhan (+Pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet.+)
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To: oceanperch; sneakers; Cap'n Crunch; WaveThatFlag; perform_to_strangers
Ash Wednesday ping.
5 posted on 03/03/2003 8:32:32 PM PST by Siobhan (+Pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet.+)
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To: Salvation
Thanks, Salvation. This is interesting enough for my kids to read and understand.
6 posted on 03/03/2003 8:37:49 PM PST by american colleen (Christe Eleison!)
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To: Siobhan
**As Mother Angelica would say, "You are awesome!!!"**

And so are you! LOL!
7 posted on 03/03/2003 11:27:16 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: american colleen
I really liked one of his answers: Heck, NO!
8 posted on 03/03/2003 11:27:54 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation
BUMP
9 posted on 03/03/2003 11:57:38 PM PST by nickcarraway
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To: Salvation
Have I thanked you lately for your pings? I will now. Thanks.
10 posted on 03/04/2003 5:59:53 AM PST by My back yard
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To: Siobhan
Please solve this dispute I have with a Catholic co-worker: Mass is not said on Good Friday, but Catholics are expected to at least vist the Church on that day. Correct?
11 posted on 03/04/2003 6:16:50 AM PST by WaveThatFlag
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To: My back yard
No, but you are welcome! LOL!
12 posted on 03/04/2003 6:17:00 AM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation; All
Question: can a non-Catholic baptized Christian (born again) receive the ashes on Ash Wednesday? (I was going to ask a friend of mine to mass tomorrow.)

Also, what is a polite way of telling her she can't receive communion in the Catholic Church?

Thanks, and God bless!

13 posted on 03/04/2003 6:20:44 AM PST by Gophack
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To: Gophack
As far as I know there is no reason that she cannot receive the ashes tomorrow.

On the Communion item however, I would be tempted to use the inside cover of our missalette that has the guidelines for receiving Communion. Maybe someone else can put it into more delcate words than I am able at this moment.

She is always welcome to go up for a blessing, indicating no communion by placing her arms across her chest, hand to opposite shoulders.

14 posted on 03/04/2003 6:25:55 AM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: All
Lent and Fasting
15 posted on 03/04/2003 6:42:31 AM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation
Another excellent post!

By using palms from Palm Sunday, it is a reminder that we must not only rejoice of Jesus' coming but also regret the fact that our sins made it necessary for him to die for us in order to save us from hell.

This is most interesting and lends greater significance to the ashes. For those of us who can't make it to church during lunch tomorrow, a chaplain will be coming to the capitol to distribute ashes to the catholics. It is one of those rare moments when faith transcends political affiliations.

16 posted on 03/04/2003 7:47:23 AM PST by NYer (Kyrie Eleison)
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To: WaveThatFlag
Please solve this dispute I have with a Catholic co-worker: Mass is not said on Good Friday, but Catholics are expected to at least vist the Church on that day. Correct?

Good Friday is not a day of obligation.

SD

17 posted on 03/04/2003 9:04:39 AM PST by SoothingDave
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To: Gophack
Also, what is a polite way of telling her she can't receive communion in the Catholic Church?

Simply tell her, as the missalette does, that Communion is a sign of unity. It is sad that there is disunity in the Christian people, but that to share in Communion would be to express a falsehood about our unity.

SD

18 posted on 03/04/2003 9:06:18 AM PST by SoothingDave
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To: SoothingDave
I don't think you understand my question. It is certainly not a day of obligation, because there are no masses for required attendance. But aren't you expected to at least stop by and reflect?
19 posted on 03/04/2003 9:59:07 AM PST by WaveThatFlag
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Comment #20 Removed by Moderator

To: WaveThatFlag
But aren't you expected to at least stop by and reflect?

Expected? Yes. Required? No.

One should certainly be in quiet contemplation the entire day, certainly from 12-3. But there is no canonical requirement that I am aware of to attend any service or to "visit" the church.

SD

21 posted on 03/04/2003 10:39:22 AM PST by SoothingDave
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To: SoothingDave
Good Friday is not a day of obligation.

True, Good Friday is not listed as a Holy Day of Obligation but the obligation of fasting and abstinence applies. The importance of attending the solemn liturgies of the Easter triduum is, sadly, downplayed in most dioceses.

22 posted on 03/04/2003 11:15:32 AM PST by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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To: SMEDLEYBUTLER
True, Good Friday is not listed as a Holy Day of Obligation but the obligation of fasting and abstinence applies.

Certainly.

The importance of attending the solemn liturgies of the Easter triduum is, sadly, downplayed in most dioceses.

Is this true? That is sad.

Yes, people should attend as many liturgies that week as possible. Chrism Mass, Mass of the Lord's Supper, Good Friday service, Easter Vigil. Not because you "have to," but because you want to.

SD

23 posted on 03/04/2003 11:45:00 AM PST by SoothingDave
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To: WaveThatFlag
It isn't a holy day of obligation, but as a priest of blessed memory once said to me: "How are you going to explain not being there, when you are dead and facing Jesus....?"
24 posted on 03/04/2003 1:19:04 PM PST by Siobhan (+Pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet+ Saint Joseph, Terror of Demons, pray for us +)
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To: SMEDLEYBUTLER
**The importance of attending the solemn liturgies of the Easter triduum is, sadly, downplayed in most dioceses.**

I encourage everyone to attend the Holy Thursday, Good Friday and Holy Saturday services. They are life-changing!

25 posted on 03/04/2003 7:07:07 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation
Thank you for this comprehensive post.
26 posted on 03/04/2003 9:15:19 PM PST by Barnacle (I’m Catholic. Do you have a problem with that?)
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To: Salvation
Thanks,Salvation.
27 posted on 03/04/2003 9:40:01 PM PST by Lady In Blue
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To: ultima ratio; Loyalist; Maximilian; frozen section; traditionalist; Desdemona; ninenot; ...
Just wanted to relay a ghastly experience on this thread. I went to the N.O. church for noon Mass today because it was just a block from my work (my traditional Church is about 30 minutes away). I thought I would pop down there for a little Ash Wednesday thing and hope for the best.

Mistake. I hadn't been to an N.O. "Mass" for a very long time and as soon as I entered I knew it was a mistake. First, I felt like I was entering some kind of rock concert or something. Everyone was chatting as they found their seats. When they got to their seats they continued talking. Laughing, Joking. Out loud. Very loud. Cell phones went off. People chatted. A young boy in front of me had an earring. No one genuflected upon entering the pew. At most there was a half-hearted nod. People were laughing and chattering. I looked up at the barren altar and saw a jug of wine, in a carafe like I was in an Italian restaurant. Then there were several 1960s looking ceramic trays, which I assume were to hold the Body of Christ.

The chatter continued. Someone genuflected to get in to the pew in front of me and the young woman sitting at the end of the pew glared at him and spat "there are plenty of empty seats, why are you trying to sit here!"

Then a horrid cow of a lady grabbed the microphone on the altar and began announcing the Mass as if it were a sporting event. "First we will be singing the blah blah and then we will blah blah, your server this afternoon will be blah blah."

The priest sauntered out and began going on about the meaning of Ash Wednesday. One problem: there was no mention whatsoever of the main point: pennance, self-denial, focus on Christ's death. Instead we were told that "this is a great opportunity to improve our personal relationship with Jesus."

And oh sweet Lord, I have forgotten the banality of the new "Mass." The hollow responses, as the masses bark out "and also with you" "thanks be to God" blah blah blah. It is like some kind of revival meeting.

And the "readings"? Good Lord! Some old dude with long hair slunk up to the podium to read the first reading. Talk about dramatics...Someone looking to break into showbiz? Then the maitre d'host lady waddled up to the microphone to sing out the "responsorial psalm." Something trite and banal.

Finally Father bothered to get up and do something. Reading the Gospel, only to have the crowd call out "praise to you Lord Jesus Christ!!!" as if we are in some kind of baseball stadium. "Batter UP!"

I completely missed the consecration. I wonder whether it even happened. All of a sudden he was thrusting the jug of wine in the air and saying the dreaded "for all men." I did not get a feeling of the moment of consecration and wondered if I had lost my place at Mass. Anyone who has ever been to a real Mass knows exactly what I am talking about: you know when the consecration has taken place. Also you can hear a pin drop. Not even a cell phone, if one can imagine that.

Then came the Vegas-style glad-handing. The roar of "peace be with you" rose above the crowd. I closed my eyes and folded my hands in prayer. I am not at a used car dealership, I am in the Presence of our Lord (or at least am supposed to be). It is not about welcoming my neighbor -- it's all about God.

Then, to my horror, an old dude with grey hair to his shoulders and that lesbian-looking maitre d' lady waddled around to the priest as the priest dug his hand into the chalice and pulled out a handful of hosts. Some spilled all over the altar. He snatched them up in a non-chalant manner as if one had dropped a cookie or something. Then he handed he funky ceramic dishes to the hippie and the maitre d' lady who proceded to pass them out. A few other "extraordinary ministers" held cups of wine. They were singing "taste and see the goodness of the Lord, taste and see." It sounded like an advert for communion: hey, come on up! Taste it and see! This wine is good! When I saw the hippie digging his hands into the platter of hosts I turned and left. It was absolutely DEPRESSING.

My opposition to the new Church became even stronger, if that is possible. Simply put: it is not Catholic. End of story. Thank God my chapel is having Ash Wednesday tonight. What on earth was I thinking!!!

28 posted on 03/05/2003 12:05:39 PM PST by Zviadist
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To: Zviadist
Well, I went to Mass at our Cathedral. The archbishop said Mass. It was very crowded.

No women on the altar.

Only priests distributed Communion.

Much of the music was chanted. Only the organ and a cantor was used.

Except for the under 3 year olds and the hard of hearing seniors, all was quiet.

Eucharistic Adoration before and after Mass.

Everyone genuflected. No climbing over pews for the Sign of peace. No holding hands that I could see at the Our Father, either.

Homily on renewing and enriching prayer life this Lent, the Rosary, and on the beauty of Confession.

Maybe you need to shop around for a N.O. church that more suits your tastes.
29 posted on 03/05/2003 12:16:03 PM PST by Desdemona (Catholic and not appologizing for it.)
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To: Zviadist
I'm giving up responding to flame bait for the holy season of Lent. Try me again in about 6 weeks.

Rather than trashing each other's Masses, let's focus on responding to the Holy Father's call for prayer and penance to avoid more bloodshed and war in the world, particularly the Middle East.

30 posted on 03/05/2003 12:19:59 PM PST by marshmallow
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To: Desdemona
Don't get me wrong: this was no "clown mass" church. It was very tastefully done (although barren, like Protestant). The priest was no clown. The problem is deeper: the new mass is banal and devoid of meaning. There is no "God" there. It looks dated, a relic of the 1960s. The timless Mass is just that. Fresh as the day it was given to us by our Lord. The difference is remarkable! Even dressed up with some chant and incense and a bit of "Agnus dei" thrown in. The fact remains that the emperor has no clothes. I cannot believe I spent my entire youth in the New Church. No wonder I fell away for several years. Thank God I found the real Mass and the Faith of Ages.
31 posted on 03/05/2003 12:24:51 PM PST by Zviadist
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To: marshmallow
I'm giving up responding to flame bait for the holy season of Lent. Try me again in about 6 weeks.

That was not my intent. I flagged you personally based on several posts I noted where you made good arguments. I select each person I flag individually. That is why I take so much time deciding who to flag. I am sorry if I have annoyed you with the flag. I will heretofore cease to do so.

let's focus on responding to the Holy Father's call for prayer and penance to avoid more bloodshed and war in the world, particularly the Middle East.

I agree with you completely. Fast Thursday for peace.

32 posted on 03/05/2003 12:27:59 PM PST by Zviadist
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To: Zviadist
This is a new religion, it is not Catholicism. It has little in common with the old faith.
33 posted on 03/05/2003 12:41:21 PM PST by ultima ratio
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To: ultima ratio
This is a new religion, it is not Catholicism. It has little in common with the old faith.

It may be old hat to those who have been in the NO recently and who usually attend the Traditional Mass, but I hadn't been in years. It is not that it has changed. It is just that it in NO WAY resembles the Mass of Ages. I really felt myself in a protestant worship service. I also felt sorry for all the people there who are deprived of the glory and beauty of the Traditional Mass. If only they knew what they were missing...

What a gruesome afternoon! Can you imagine: a dykey looking lady and an aging hippie thrusting their grubby hands into the platter of Hosts? I groaned out loud. And then rushed the door.

34 posted on 03/05/2003 12:45:18 PM PST by Zviadist
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To: Zviadist
You can't appreciate the Novus Ordo Mass properly until you can look at it with fresh eyes after having been away for some months. Then all the things that you had somehow learned to tolerate when you still attended appear as truly intolerable as they really are.

Thank God my chapel is having Ash Wednesday tonight.

Unfortunately, we do not have ashes at any traditional church that I know of. We are planning to go to the NO at the parish where we attend the indult. This will be our first NO Mass since last October (which was a funeral).

35 posted on 03/05/2003 12:59:29 PM PST by Maximilian
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To: Maximilian
You can't appreciate the Novus Ordo Mass properly until you can look at it with fresh eyes after having been away for some months. Then all the things that you had somehow learned to tolerate when you still attended appear as truly intolerable as they really are.

You've said it all! I honestly -- and I am not just trying to rag on the N.O. -- felt that I was attending at a different religion. I went to a wedding in a protestant church a few years ago. It felt the same way strange. A previous poster commented that Lent was not the time to criticize other Catholics for going to N.O. I disagree. Now more than ever we must pray to our Lord for a restoration of the Catholic Faith and the Catholic Mass. I think all the ills in the world would begin to turn around if this happened. Sounds naive, but I am convinced.

36 posted on 03/05/2003 1:09:30 PM PST by Zviadist
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To: Zviadist
Fortunately, God will be the judge of people's hearts, not you.

I truly resent your categorizing all those who attend a Mass that does not meet "your" parameters. It is as if you are slapping your fellow Catholics in the face. And that does not sound like repentance and belief to me.

Were you judging?
37 posted on 03/05/2003 4:30:44 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Zviadist
ASH WEDNESDAY

" Dust thou art, and into dust thou shalt return."
                                                 Gn. 3:19

Rend your hearts, not your garments, and return to the Lord, your God. (Joel 2:13)


Reflection.
The liturgical use of ashes originated in the Old Testament times. Ashes symbolized mourning, mortality and penance. In the Book of Esther, Mordecai put on sackcloth and ashes when he heard of the decree of King Ahasuerus to kill all of the Jewish people in the Persian Empire (Esther 4:1). Job repented in sackcloth and ashes (Job 42:6). Prophesying the Babylonian captivity of Jerusalem, Daniel wrote, "I turned to the Lord God, pleading in earnest prayer, with fasting, sackcloth, and ashes" (Daniel 9:3).
Jesus  made reference to ashes, "If the miracles worked in you had taken place in Tyre and Sidon, they would have reformed in sackcloth and ashes long ago" (Matthew 11:21).
In the Middle Ages, the priest would bless the dying person with holy water, saying, "Remember that thou art dust and to dust thou shalt return."
The Church adapted the use of ashes to mark the beginning of the penitential season of Lent, when we remember our mortality and mourn for our sins. In our present liturgy for Ash Wednesday, we use ashes made from the burned palm branches distributed on the Palm Sunday of the previous year. The priest blesses the ashes and imposes them on the foreheads of the faithful, making the sign of the cross and saying, "Remember, man you are dust and to dust you shall return," or "Turn away from sin and be faithful to the Gospel." As we begin this holy season of Lent in preparation for Easter, we must remember the significance of the ashes we have received: We mourn and do penance for our sins. We again convert our hearts to the Lord, who suffered, died, and rose for our salvation. We renew the promises made at our baptism, when we died to an old life and rose to a new life with Christ. Finally, mindful that the kingdom of this world passes away, we strive to live the kingdom of God now and look forward to its fulfillment in heaven.


Lenten Question
Q: What is Lent?
A: Lent is the forty day period before Easter, excluding Sundays, which begins on Ash Wednesday and ends on Holy Saturday (the day before Easter Sunday). [This traditional ennumeration does not precisely coincide with the calendar according to the liturgical reform. In order to give special prominence to the Sacred Triduum (Mass of the Lord's Supper, Good Friday, Easter Vigil) the current calendar counts Lent as only from Ash Wednesday to Holy Thursday, up to the Mass of the Lord's Supper. Even so, Lenten practices are properly maintained up to the Easter Vigil, excluding Sundays, as before.]

Lenten Action.
Invite a non-practicing friend to Mass with you.


Prayer
Almighty and everlasting God, you despise nothing you have made and forgive the sins of all who are penitent.
Create and make in us new and contrite hearts, that we, worthily lamenting our sins and acknowledging our brokenness, may obtain of you, the God of all mercy, perfect remission and forgiveness;
through Jesus Christ our Lord, who lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit, one God, for ever and ever.
Amen.

Ash Wednesday is a day of both fasting and abstinence.


38 posted on 03/05/2003 4:32:53 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Zviadist
Or did you already forget what the Gospel for today said?

Gospel
Mt 6:1-6, 16-18

Jesus said to his disciples:
"Take care not to perform righteous deeds
in order that people may see them;
otherwise, you will have no recompense from your heavenly Father.
When you give alms,
do not blow a trumpet before you,
as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets
to win the praise of others.
Amen, I say to you,
they have received their reward.
But when you give alms,
do not let your left hand know what your right is doing,
so that your almsgiving may be secret.
And your Father who sees in secret will repay you.

"When you pray,
do not be like the hypocrites,
who love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on street corners
so that others may see them.
Amen, I say to you,
they have received their reward.
But when you pray, go to your inner room,
close the door, and pray to your Father in secret.
And your Father who sees in secret will repay you.

"When you fast,
do not look gloomy like the hypocrites.
They neglect their appearance,
so that they may appear to others to be fasting.
Amen, I say to you, they have received their reward.
But when you fast,
anoint your head and wash your face,
so that you may not appear to be fasting,
except to your Father who is hidden.
And your Father who sees what is hidden will repay you."

39 posted on 03/05/2003 4:38:22 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Zviadist; Maximilian; ultima ratio
You've said it all! I honestly -- and I am not just trying to rag on the N.O. -- felt that I was attending at a different religion.

I can't disagree with you.


40 posted on 03/05/2003 4:51:48 PM PST by Land of the Irish
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To: Zviadist
Thanks for the ping.

Sorry to hear about your misadventure, but your recollection of it had me LOL!

The priests at my church warn against anyone having anything to do with the new church. (Although I say "my church", it's not actually correct. My wife, daughter and I are not yet baptized, but are waiting until Holy Saturday, which I understand is the traditional day for new converts. We have covered almost all of the basics in our catechism classes, and we're looking forward to April 19th.)

41 posted on 03/05/2003 5:20:36 PM PST by Possenti
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To: Salvation
I truly resent your categorizing all those who attend a Mass that does not meet "your" parameters.

Sorry buddy, I didn't create the Mass of All Time. That would be Christ and His disciples. I just follow it, as demanded by all popes prior to John XXIII.

Your "Mass" was concieved by Cardinal Bugnini.

If the choice is between the two, I think it is a pretty easy choice. Why do you attack people for adhering to the 2,000 year history of God's Own Church?

42 posted on 03/06/2003 9:35:07 AM PST by Zviadist
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To: Salvation
And that does not sound like repentance

Didn't you read my post? The priest at this N.O. "Mass" made no mention at all of Lent being a time of repentance. It is simply a time "to grow in our personal relationship with Jesus." That's it. That's Lent at the Mass I attended. So...do I listen to him or to my Traditional Priest, who spent the entire sermon last week on repentance and self-denial and the primacy of love for God over love for ourselves (which is the basis of sin)? You are making my argument for me: I should concentrate on repentance and ignore the polyanna nonsense eminating from the crumbling Novus Ordo establishment.

43 posted on 03/06/2003 9:38:38 AM PST by Zviadist
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To: Possenti
My wife, daughter and I are not yet baptized, but are waiting until Holy Saturday, which I understand is the traditional day for new converts.

What glorious and delightful news! How is it that you found the traditional Faith on the first try? Tell me more about your church... Is it indult, independent, or SSPX? Just curious.

Thank God for showing you the Faith!

44 posted on 03/06/2003 9:41:35 AM PST by Zviadist
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To: Zviadist
Please, don't paint the entire NO church with a broad brush like that. There are still people who use Lent as a time of atonement and repentance. There are still priests and bishops who stress prayer and penance and abstinence.

There are Catholics out there who don't want to hear about it, but there are still many left.
45 posted on 03/06/2003 9:55:59 AM PST by Desdemona (Catholic and not apologizing for it.)
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To: Desdemona
Please, don't paint the entire NO church with a broad brush like that.

The N.O. is not Catholic. That is a big big problem. This is important at Lent more than ever.

46 posted on 03/06/2003 9:59:07 AM PST by Zviadist
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To: Zviadist
**Why do you attack people for adhering to the 2,000 year history of God's Own Church?**

I am not attacking as you state here.

I was merely asking why you bottled up all attendees at a Novus Ordo Mass into nearly unbelievers. I don't think I fit that mold and as I stated, I resent your categorization of my character.

47 posted on 03/06/2003 7:06:05 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Zviadist
**And that does not sound like repentance**

I am talking about the tone of your posts. Just as in vocal communication, more is communicated via the tone of the message than sometimes the words.
48 posted on 03/06/2003 7:07:11 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Desdemona
**There are still people who use Lent as a time of atonement and repentance. There are still priests and bishops who stress prayer and penance and abstinence.**

You said it much better than I.
Thank you.



49 posted on 03/06/2003 7:09:04 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation
I don't think I fit that mold and as I stated, I resent your categorization of my character.

I mean no personal offense. I have great friends who are protestant. I don't hold that against them at all. I respect their different religious views. My point is not that the N.O. is bad or evil. Simply that it is not Catholic. Just like my Methodist friends are not bad or evil, it is just that they are not Catholic. No bigotry here, just an observation.

50 posted on 03/06/2003 7:12:03 PM PST by Zviadist
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