What does John Piper believe about dispensationalism, covenant theology, and new covenant theology?

Desiring God Ministries ^ | Unk. | DGM Staff

[ksen]

It is a simple question: Who said that the Gentiles will receive an inheritance among those in Israel who are sanctified by faith in the Lord?

Could you make it simpler? I are a graduate of the publik skools.

Are you asking about an earthly inheritance? a heavenly inheritance? OT Israel? those Jewish people saved during the Church Age?

You are, of course, free to disagree with the statement if you wish.

I will when I figure out what exactly you are asking.

[CCWoody]

What do you think of CT? Do you think of it at all? ~ ksen

I don't know what to think about it. I need to figure out what it is first. Remember, my theology has been solely derived from the Bible. I don't read commentaries and I haven't read books about theology.

The Calvinists on this forum actually had to tell me that I was a Calvinist. I didn't know what they were, other than the butt of jokes from people in my church.

Woody.

[RnMomof7]

Yep (if yopu believe in Ezekiel Temple)

[CCWoody]

Who said that the Gentiles [who are sanctified by faith in the Lord] will receive an inheritance among those in Israel? The audience for this statement the first time it was uttered and then later repeated was Jewish Pharisees. The understanding of an inheritance would be the same as an OT Jew would think about the inheritance promised by the Lord.

[ksen]

Yep (if yopu believe in Ezekiel Temple)

Do you have the passage(s) handy?

[RnMomof7]

    Eze 42:13   Then said he unto me, The north chambers [and] the south chambers, which [are] before the separate place, they [be] holy chambers, where the priests that approach unto the LORD shall eat the most holy things: there shall they lay the most holy things, and the meat offering, and the sin offering, and the trespass offering; for the place [is] holy.

  Eze 43:18   And he said unto me, Son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; These [are] the ordinances of the altar in the day when they shall make it, to offer burnt offerings thereon, and to sprinkle blood thereon.

     Eze 43:19   And thou shalt give to the priests the Levites that be of the seed of Zadok, which approach unto me, to minister unto me, saith the Lord GOD, a young bullock for a sin offering.

     Eze 43:20   And thou shalt take of the blood thereof, and put [it] on the four horns of it, and on the four corners of the settle, and upon the border round about: thus shalt thou cleanse and purge it.

     Eze 43:21   Thou shalt take the bullock also of the sin offering, and he shall burn it in the appointed place of the house, without the sanctuary.   

  Eze 43:22   And on the second day thou shalt offer a kid of the goats without blemish f:or a sin offering; and they shall cleanse the altar, as they did cleanse [it] with the bullock.   

  Eze 43:23   When thou hast made an end of cleansing [it], thou shalt offer a young bullock without blemish, and a ram out of the flock without blemish.

     Eze 43:24  And thou shalt offer them before the LORD, and the priests shall cast salt upon them, and they shall offer them up [for] a burnt offering unto the LORD.

     Eze 43:25   Seven days shalt thou prepare every day a goat [for] a sin offering: they shall also prepare a young bullock, and a ram out of the flock, without blemish.

     Eze 43:26   Seven days shall they purge the altar and purify it; and they shall consecrate themselves.

     Eze 43:27   And when these days are expired, it shall be, [that] upon the eighth day, and [so] forward, the priests shall make your burnt offerings upon the altar, and your peace offerings; and I will accept you, saith the Lord GOD.  

All of this in clear opposition of the once for ALL sacrifice of the umblemished Lamb Jesus Christ on the cross

Hbr 10:10   By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all].

     Hbr 10:11   And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

     Hbr 10:12   But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

     Hbr 10:13   From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.      Hbr 10:14   For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Houston I ~think we have a problem:>)                                                

[LiteKeeper]

read later

[Jean Chauvin]

You've got mail!

[ksen]

("Het lot wordt weliswaar ongezien geworpen, maar de HERE bepaalt hoe het valt." (Proverbs 16:33))

Is that from the PWV? Prince William Version

[Jean Chauvin]

HTB-IBS

Jean

[ksen]

What's the problem? I read Ezekiel 40:1 onward and it SEEMS to me, I will be the first to say that I could be wrong, that Ezekiel is describing a vision of what happens after the captivity. The Israelites come back and rebuild their Temple and offer sacrifices for sin.

[Jean Chauvin]

I'm definately PWVOnlyist! LOL (I didn't catch it at first)

(Actually, I'm one step removed from the House of Prince Willem of Oranje. My father's cousin's father's last name is "Oranje")

Jean

[the_doc]

In regards to his views on the Mosaic Law, he seems closer to new covenant theology than covenant theology, although once again it would not work to say that he precisely falls within that category.

That describes where I was several years ago, when I first began to question the Puritan theology of Law. I quickly realized that the New Covenant theologians had some very, very important points to make.

The more I have studied New Covenant Theology, the more dogmatic I have become as a New Covenant theologian.

[irishtenor]

Hey, Mom, I think I have an answer for you. If you look at the dating of Ezekiel, it appears to be written BEFORE Nehemiah rebuilt the Temple. So, this could be a prophesy concerning the rebuilt Temple, not the new Jerusalem.

[RnMomof7]

The sacrifices are ordered by God..that they can be pleasing to him..and you do not see a conflict in that and the NT?

[RnMomof7]

Except a temple of that description has never been built ..and that is normally claimed as the Millenium temple..

[oldcodger]

Piper bump.

Is there a Piper bump list? If there is, please add me to it. I just finished reading Desiring God, and now want to read everything I can by him.

Thanks for this thread.

[ksen]

The more I have studied New Covenant Theology, the more dogmatic I have become as a New Covenant theologian.

So the NCT would say that the Christian is bound by the two commandments of loving God, and loving neighbor, and that the Mosaic Law is good for deriving general principles from?

What was it about NCT that drew you to it?

[ksen]

Is there a Piper bump list?

I don't know if there is an official Piper bump list. Maybe RnMom can help with that question.

[RnMomof7]

So the NCT would say that the Christian is bound by the two commandments of loving God, and loving neighbor, and that the Mosaic Law is good for deriving general principles from?

Don't you see this as the cumulative effect of the OT law? Does it not contain the principles of the law?

Kevin I have often asked the people that post on FR that believe that we can loose our salvation it they keep the NC law perfectly? They say yes..but as you and I would agree I think no one except Jesus could ever love God perfectly or love his neighbor as himself..impossible because of our sin nature..

But they think if they are faithful to their spouse , do not kill anyone and do not steal etc. they are living a "sinless life" what self deception that is..

Jesus did not lower the bar IMHO He raised it..