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To: Conservative til I die
"Which foolish statement?"

The statement that ALL protestants believed in perpetual virginity. Posting quotes from a few men and then claiming that all believed this shows the authors ignorance and agenda.

". Protestantism at it's core is anti-Catholicism. Now I don't mean anti- in the sense that we use it here, i.e., bigotry towards, although that usually is the case as well. I mean in terms of setting every belief against that of the Catholic Church"

You are right. Anti means against. We have anti-catholics and anti Protestants because of our beliefs.

"I gotta believe that there is some intentional setting of PRotestant belief against the Catholic Church. I refuse to believe that the Catholic Church has gotten everything wrong for the last 2000 years. "

No there are a lot of things we agree on. We part ways when you part from scripture. Placing tradition on a level with scripture is something we don't agree with. We have the words of Jesus to the Pharisees to back us on this.

They tried the same thing and it didn't work then just as it doesn't work now.

Jesus didn't care how holy their lineage was. They were not to put tradition on a level with scripture. Catholics would be smart to heed this warning.

18 posted on 04/14/2003 1:57:54 PM PDT by Joshua
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To: Joshua
"Which foolish statement?"

he statement that ALL protestants believed in perpetual virginity. Posting quotes from a few men and then claiming that all believed this shows the authors ignorance and agenda.

Learn to read. The author states in the first sentence of the article that "All of the early Protestant *Founders* accepted the truth of the Perpetual Virginity of Mary." Founders.
20 posted on 04/14/2003 3:44:48 PM PDT by Conservative til I die
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To: Joshua
I am not a Catholic, and don't have any plans to become one. However, it is quite unfair to say that they are following "traditions of men," at least in their understanding: which is based upon Scriptures, though perhaps in a manner different from Protestant thought. "Traditions of men" are those which are not inspired of God- such were the traditions of men that our Lord countered. The Tradition of Catholic and Orthodox tradition is not understood as such. Rather, the understanding is one of Holy Tradition, not simply made up, but inspired by the Holy Spirit acting within the Church. In particular, the Holy Spirit acts when the Church is gathered in council, what we know as the Ecunemical Councils. The basis for such a council is found in Acts, where the apostles and elders "with the whole church" declare a set of regulations which they drew up, giving authority by saying "it seemed good to us and the Holy Spirit". Rather presumptious? It would be if some guy had stood up and declared it, or ever groups of people (who the Council was countering in this case).

And such is the nature of the canonization of the Scriptures: the New Testament was accepted by the Church through the work of the Holy Spirit within the Church. Indeed, the New Testament is Tradition, canonical, written, infallible Tradition, handed down to us from the Apostles.

Also- and here I have some difficulty- the Church establishes Holy Tradition through the general workings and writings of the Church. In Orthodox thought, the Liturgy in particular expresses Church dogma, and is an expression of Holy Tradition- the Holy Spirit at work within the Church as a whole in this instance. The Fathers- in consensus- are also establishers of Holy Tradition, the Holy Spirit working through them together: not on their own but in consensus.

That is- sort of- the nature of Tradition as Catholics and Orthodox understand it (though Catholics would add the Pope's authority, at which Orthodox would of course cringe).

25 posted on 04/14/2003 8:02:59 PM PDT by Cleburne
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