The Theology of John Calvin

But the Catholic/Arminian believes that Christ's work was not complete; that you are perpetually in jeopardy of losing God's grace. Thus the intervention of extraneous, self-serving church hierarchy is "necessary" to help you keep upright.

Calvin merely pointed out that if one is saved in God's plan, that salvation cannot be lost.

We live our lives according to His will; not ours.

Naw Doc - I dont look to my church to keep me "upright" -I'd agree if you had left it at the RC.

I have an assurance of faith, but can admit that I am enough of a yutz to foul it up, calling my salvation into question.

....and while it doesnt fit into your paradigm, I pray continually His will is done on Earth, and that I am an agent of that will.

Sorry to be contrary, must be the fiber

does this make me a lukewarm calvinist (gasp)

Hows the weather?

lukewarm Calvinist?

Hi, Rev! Well, you're heading in the right direction.

The point is you might feel you could "foul up" your salvation, but God knows if you'll be with Him in heaven or not. So ultimately, if God holds you as His Elect, you can't "foul it up." And we live our lives knowing His presence is always with us, guiding us every step of the way.

Since we're human, we sometimes fail; sometimes sin. But we can't "lose" the salvation God already knows He's gifted us with since our sins have been washed away by Christ's sacrifice. That's eternally reassuring. I think it's just an added, logical measure of comfort the Reformed perspective gives the believer.

And it's not the church that "keeps us upright"; it's the Holy Spirit. We probably agree on that.

Weather's fine; always is. I like all weather. 8~)

Paul is not uncertain of his salvation. His works are replete with Paul's confidence that the Holy Spriit had worked a miracle through him> Not many have been as secure as Paul in knowing the assurance of God's sovereignty.

But "saved" doesn't mean you become God. Man is man, as God made him, human, fallible, weak and fallen. Once God's grace is made known to you via the sacrifice of the Cross, you are relieved of the burden of hell, but never relieved of your human nature to stray.

But Paul realized that God's plan trumps man's human nature. Paul's mention of "rejection" is his rejection by men and his fellow Christians, not rejection by God.

Hi again and thanks for your reply. While I agree with some of what you say, that last part doesn't seem to fit in light of the whole passage:

Verses 24-27 You know that while all the runners in the stadium take part in the race, the award goes to one man. In that case, run so as to win! Athletes deny themselves all sorts of things. They do this to win a crown of leaves that withers, but we a crown that is imperishable. I do not run like a man who loses sight of the finish line. I do not fight as if I were shadowboxing. What I do is discipline my body and master it for fear that after having preached to others I myself should be rejected."

The runners are the human race while the "athletes" are Christians in Paul's analogy. (One could also make a case that the runners are professed Christians while ones who make it to the finish line are truly saved Christians). The finish line is death/eternal life. I don't see where Paul has a concern whether people like him or not. In fact, Paul was preaching some pretty unpopular stuff to the Jews and non-believers. He told them the Old Covenant law was no longer relevant. He preached against the sinful practices and debauchery of the time. Paul wasn't a go along to get along type guy. Preaching the Gospel could and did get most people killed. If he wanted to be popular he would have chosen another line of work.

Then in 2 Corinthians 11 and 12 he goes so far as to embrace poor treatment, suffering and being thought a fool. It doesn't seem Paul cared what people thought of him as long as they believed in the Word he preached.

If you look at the whole metaphor, you can see, St. Paul is not worried about the rejection of other Christians. He compares himself to a runner in a race, and he doesn not want to be disqualified (i.e. from salvation)

Do you not know that in a race all the runners compete, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it. Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. Well, I do not run aimlessly, I do not box as one beating the air; but I pommel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified. [1 Corinthians 9:24-27 (RSV)]

St. Paul is even more explicit earlier in the chapter: In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel. But I have made no use of any of these rights, nor am I writing this to secure any such provision. For I would rather die than have any one deprive me of my ground for boasting.(1 Corinthians 9:14-15)

Paul would rather die than be deprived of his ground for boasting. Why else would he rather die, except, that he feared the future loss of his salvation. So Paul knows, he could lose salvation. It is a concern for him.

For if I preach the gospel, that gives me no ground for boasting. For necessity is laid upon me. Woe to me if I do not preach the gospel! For if I do this of my own will, I have a reward; but if not of my own will, I am entrusted with a commission.(1 Corinthians 9:16-17)

How much more explicit could he make it?

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