Calvinism debate must be balanced

Baptist Standard ^ | A. J. Conyers

[RnMomof7]

**Calvinism has no place in Baptists Churches, it is antithesis to our heritage of "soul liberty"! **




Someone should have told the authors of the 1644 and 1689 confessions..both of which were calvinist..seems the Arminians stole the church and are whinning now that it seeks its historic roots

http://www.mtsbc.org/old_baptist_documents1.htm

[FreeRep]

That's good news about the 'Presbyterian Church of America'. I'm happy when I hear about church growth. According to the ‘2002 Yearbook of American and Canadian Churches’ the Presbyterian Church in America up 42 percent.

However, a online search shows that's not the trend. Pew Research Council, Adherents.com and World Book, shows that the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) with a 11.6 percent loss and the United Church of Christ, which dropped 14.8 percent.

Also, membership statistics from 'The National Council of Churches' show decline in memberships in reformed churches.
Acording to 'Religious Congregations and Membership, Glenmary Research Center and the 'Association of
Statisticians of American Religious Bodies, the growing Churches are those that are conservative. Those
that are declining, most were moderate or liberal churches. And the more liberal the denomination, the more they were losing.
The research findings indicate severe membership losses because they found that 74% of pastors and lay leaders do
not think evangelism should be on their congregation's agenda. Is that because of theological perspective? or denominational
heredity? or population trends?

The old adage--your viewpoint is determined by your point of viewing.

[FreeRep]

SORRY About My Double Post. Computer went down. You guys are exceptional.

<><

[FreeRep]

Hi, RnMomof7. I agree we need to get back SBC roots, and I am no Arminian, just worried about Church evangelism.

[Gamecock]

Hiya Mom! (BTW: RN=Reformed Nurse? ;-))

Two great "Calvinist" quotes by a guy that Baptists love to quote:

1. "I do not come into this pulpit hoping that perhaps somebody will of his own free will return to Christ. My hope lies in another quarter. I hope that my Master will lay hold of some of them and say, "You are mine, and you shall be mine. I claim you for myself." My hope arises from the freeness of grace, and not from the freedom of the will."

2. "The old truth that Calvin preached, that Augustine preached, that Paul preached, is the truth that I must preach to-day, or else be false to my conscience and my God. I cannot shape the truth; I know of no such thing as paring off the rough edges of a doctrine. John Knox's gospel is my gospel. That which thundered through Scotland must thunder through England again."

Charles Haddon Spurgeon

Peace unto you <><

[P-Marlowe]

Baptists should acknowledge and embrace their Calvinist heritage.

Calvin believed in infant baptism.

[Gamecock]

And Peter, the "first Pope" was married, what's your point?

[P-Marlowe]

The first Pope was Gregory. What's your point?

[Gamecock]

Note the Parenthesis. That reflects a quote. Many Catholics refer to Peter as the "first Pope." Even though he is often refered to as the Bishop of Jeruselum, He is just often listed in Catholic references as the first Pope ( http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12272b.htm ).

My point is why are you beating up someone when there are just as many seemingly contradictions in your denomination? (ie, why can Peter be married and priests can't?)

[Gamecock]

Parenthesis=Quotation make

[P-Marlowe]

My point is that Baptists don't believe in infant baptism, but baptism after repentance. Thus they cannot embrace their Calvinist Heritage as Calvin would have thought them heretics and vice versa.

[drstevej]

Marlowe is not Catholic.

[P-Marlowe]

My point is why are you beating up someone when there are just as many seemingly contradictions in your denomination?

What denomination to you assume that I am?

[P-Marlowe]

It's always a good idea to check someone's profile page before making any rash conclusions about them. Check mine out and then guess my denomination.

[Gamecock]

I've been to your home page before, even bookmarked some of your links. During this thread I confused you with someone else.

Mea Culpa.

[drstevej]

***What denomination to you assume that I am?***

Calminian Ex-Mo ???

[P-Marlowe]

Mea Culpa.

Its cool. There are worse things than being Catholic. You could always be a [FR 5th Amendment]. :-)

BTW did you push this button:

I found it on my son's website. It's pretty cool too.

[Gamecock]

There are worse things than being Catholic

I have a statement on my site: There will be some Catolics in Heaven, some Presbyterians in Hell.

Cool link

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Well-said. A joyous bump for God's total and unfettered sovereignty.

[jude24]

If you are referring to Calvinism, please allow me to gently set the record straight. We are often accused of not practicing evangelism. We take the Great Commission very seriously. Yes, we think that all events are predestined, but as far as the elect goes, we don't know who they are! It is out job as believers to spread the Word to all, so those who are meant to come to Christ hear the word through us. To us evangelism is actually very low stress, because the Holy Spirit does all the work, we just have to talk. I don't have to beat myself up if I don't "win" a soul. I've had people who I thought I've done a terrible job with, come to Christ. I've jokingly said that a room of circus chimps would have been just as effective, because the Holy Spirit was working on them. Conversely, I've done what I though was a great job, and not brought some to Christ, but if they watched the resurrection themselves, they would still not believe.

I speak as a Calvinist actively involved in evangelism through Campus Crusade.

Similarly, of the CCC staff I've gotten to know, there are three Calvinists, one Arminian, and two that I don't know.

So why would a Calvinist preach the gospel? Because if we don't, it doesn't hurt God, or the unbeliever. God can get someone else to do it. No, it harms only ourselves.

16 For if I preach the gospel, I have nothing to boast of, for I am under compulsion; for woe is me if I do not preach the gospel.
17 For if I do this voluntarily, I have a reward; but if against my will, I have a stewardship entrusted to me.
18 What then is my reward? That, when I preach the gospel, I may offer the gospel without charge, so as not to make full use of my right in the gospel.
-I Cor. 9:16-18 [NASB]

I've jokingly said that a room of circus chimps would have been just as effective, because the Holy Spirit was working on them. Conversely, I've done what I though was a great job, and not brought some to Christ, but if they watched the resurrection themselves, they would still not believe.

That's the attitude I try to pass on to those I've had the privilege to teach -- that it's not as high-stakes as they think.