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Where Have All the FR Protestants Gone? [A Month Later]
drstevej

Posted on 05/19/2003 6:31:16 AM PDT by drstevej

Thread from last month...

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Where Have All the FR Protestants Gone?
drstevej

Posted on 04/08/2003 12:29 PM CDT by drstevej

OBSERVATIONS:

[1] There seems to be a significantly reduced number of Protestant Threads (KJV Only being the exception for sure) in the FR Religion Forum.

[2] There seems to be a reduced number of FR Protestant posts in the Religion Forum.

This thread is a place to discuss these observations.

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Now the transformation to a Catholic Religion Forum is almost complete. Must be a Marian miracle or an answer to Jim Robinson's prayer, "Can't we all just get along?" Now all the dissent is within the RC fold ... NO Mass vs. Tridentine Mass. Boredom has descended, the moderators are free to nap without fear of an **** awakening them.

Could someone arrange for a funeral mass? (a clown mass in this case might be in order).

 

-- Pope Piel  I (thinking of abdicating prior to even assuming the Chair of Peter)


TOPICS: General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: catholiclist
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Non-RC comments are also welcome, but not expected.
1 posted on 05/19/2003 6:31:16 AM PDT by drstevej
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To: Jim Robinson
Courtesy Ping
2 posted on 05/19/2003 6:49:10 AM PDT by drstevej
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To: drstevej
There's a bunch of Protestants here

SD

3 posted on 05/19/2003 7:05:43 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: drstevej
Didn't you get the "memo"? Oh, maybe you were left out of the loop.

Time to turn out the lights. The party's over.

Our evil conspiracy has succeeded beyond our wildest dreams! (Insert evil maniacal laughter here...)

4 posted on 05/19/2003 7:05:48 AM PDT by Polycarp (the homo issue could be the albatross that "Read my lips" was for Bush's papa -- CKCA'ers, UNITE!!!)
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To: drstevej; RnMomof7
"Non-RC comments are also welcome, but not expected."

Just to prove you right, I couldn't resist the temptation to post!! ;)

BTW I haven't heard from Mom in months - is she OK?
5 posted on 05/19/2003 7:06:38 AM PDT by Tantumergo
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To: drstevej
Actually, there is no debate on the RC forum either.

Knowledgeable posters like sitetest and patent have all but vanished from FR, and these two were major proponents of the NO.

The RC forum now consists of the far right: schismatics, integrists, ultra-traditionalists, and even the odd sedevacantist.

There is NO advocacy for the Novus Ordo, and the rare poster who attempts a defense is slapped down by having his faith questioned or is called a "modernist."

So, drstevej, the religion forum is now the Traditionalist Forum, and those few RCs who remain on it will shortly be talking to themselves.

6 posted on 05/19/2003 7:11:14 AM PDT by sinkspur
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To: SoothingDave; drstevej
So it seems the protestants have not left so much as everything has been said by the individual Catholics and Protestants active on the Religion Forum, and a natural progression to a segregation of threads has occurred.

(Plus the Protestants whose sole purpose in life was to attack Catholicism, not spread the Gospel, have either left the Forum or rightly been banned.)

7 posted on 05/19/2003 7:13:10 AM PDT by Polycarp (the homo issue could be the albatross that "Read my lips" was for Bush's papa -- CKCA'ers, UNITE!!!)
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To: drstevej
It's time to let it go Steve.
8 posted on 05/19/2003 7:15:56 AM PDT by Corin Stormhands (http://wardsmythe.crimsonblog.com)
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To: sinkspur
Are you kidding me?? You may be one of only ones who truly advocates for the NO, but there are plently of people who don't belong to the groups who are, as you put it, "schismatics, integrists, ultra-traditionalists, and even the odd sedevcantist." I grew up with the NO. If it doesn't turn to the a frolicking of litrugical dancers, guys with guitars, and irreverance to Blessed Sacrament, I'm ok with it, for the most part. My preference, however, is for the Latin Mass.
9 posted on 05/19/2003 7:17:14 AM PDT by Pyro7480 (+ Vive Jesus! (Live Jesus!) +)
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To: sinkspur; .45MAN; AKA Elena; al_c; american colleen; Angelus Errare; Antoninus; aposiopetic; ...
The RC forum now consists of the far right: schismatics, integrists, ultra-traditionalists, and even the odd sedevacantist.

I still post a bit on the Religion Forum. Does that make me a schismatic, an integrist, an ultra-traditionalist, or the odd sedevacantist?

I agree that sitetest and patent and siobhan are sorely missed, but I think you have gravely insulted the majority of us non-integrist orthodox Catholics who remain.

10 posted on 05/19/2003 7:19:13 AM PDT by Polycarp (the homo issue could be the albatross that "Read my lips" was for Bush's papa -- CKCA'ers, UNITE!!!)
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To: drstevej
NO ONE EXPECTS THE INQUISITION!!

11 posted on 05/19/2003 7:20:04 AM PDT by american colleen
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To: Polycarp
Pardon my ignorance, but what is an integrist? I've seen the other terms, but what is their view?
12 posted on 05/19/2003 7:22:54 AM PDT by Pyro7480 (+ Vive Jesus! (Live Jesus!) +)
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To: Polycarp
sitetest and patent and siobhan

What happened?

13 posted on 05/19/2003 7:26:04 AM PDT by Petronski (I'm not always cranky.)
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To: drstevej
I have not seen anything recently that warrants posting and "discussion." I, for one, have been very busy studying for the three Bible classes I teach each week. I enjoy reading, and occasionally responding, but beyond that I really have a lot of other things to do.
14 posted on 05/19/2003 7:29:06 AM PDT by LiteKeeper
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To: Pyro7480
My preference, however, is for the Latin Mass.

You're a traditionalist.

As far as I can tell, St. Chuck and I are the only ones who argue consistently for the vernacular Novus Ordo, celebrated according to the GIRM.

Ultima ratio and his crowd have been so successful that there are actually Catholics on this board who would attend a schismatic SSPX mass over a Novus Ordo mass.

Imagine that! Attend an illicit mass over a licit one!

Even worse, the Novus Ordo is demonized to the point that it is actually blamed (through linkage) for the sexual abuse crisis in the Church!

Take a look around the religion forum. There are fewer Catholics on it, and those that remain all seem to be singing from the same pre-Vatican II hymnbook.

When I leave for the sanity of the news/activism threads, you'll have no one to argue against and savage.

15 posted on 05/19/2003 7:29:38 AM PDT by sinkspur
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To: Polycarp; sinkspur; drstevej
I think you have gravely insulted the majority of us non-integrist orthodox Catholics who remain

Hear hear! I have never been to a Latin Mass, am a post-VII kid. The fact is that my parish and diocese do the NO reverently, with little unauthorized "innovation."

Of coruse, this discussion is now proving steve's point.

SD

16 posted on 05/19/2003 7:30:44 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: sinkspur
I'm a traditionlist, though I've never been to a Latin Mass in my life??? The only Latin I've heard in Church so far is at Eucharistic Benediction and Adoration.
17 posted on 05/19/2003 7:32:03 AM PDT by Pyro7480 (+ Vive Jesus! (Live Jesus!) +)
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To: Polycarp
I agree that sitetest and patent and siobhan are sorely missed, but I think you have gravely insulted the majority of us non-integrist orthodox Catholics who remain.

"Gravely insulted?"

Brian, you are gravely insulted by any number of things, not the least of which is my very presence on this forum. You've questioned by faith, you've said you were ashamed of my presence here, and your lame apology was so qualified as to be meaningless.

You're a traditionalist, Doctor. You will attend a Tridentine Mass over a Novus Ordo, if given the choice. That's what I'm saying.

You really ought to stop playing the victim. It doesn't become you, and nobody believes it anyway.

18 posted on 05/19/2003 7:34:36 AM PDT by sinkspur
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To: sinkspur
As far as I can tell, St. Chuck and I are the only ones who argue consistently for the vernacular Novus Ordo, celebrated according to the GIRM.

I don't think many would have a problem if this were the case. Usually, the rubrics are considered mere suggestions. It is this lax attitude and lack of discipline that begins to drive people into schismatic groups.

Personally, I think the NO should be celebrated according to the principles in the CSL of VII. Which includes the people retaining the ability to sing the ordinary parts of the Mass in Latin. Maybe not every Mass, but often enough to be proficient.

SD

19 posted on 05/19/2003 7:37:02 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: Pyro7480
My preference,however,is for the Latin Mass.

That's what you said in post #9.

How can you prefer the Latin Mass if you've never been to one?

20 posted on 05/19/2003 7:37:15 AM PDT by sinkspur
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To: Polycarp; BlackElk
Hi Doc! Hi General!

Been working alot of OT and off duty jobs lately so I'm just catching up on my day off.

I think I'm in the 'kook' category so I'm still here.

Learning quite a bit also, thanks to the great Catholic posters here on FR.

21 posted on 05/19/2003 7:40:06 AM PDT by Cap'n Crunch
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To: american colleen
LOL, it is good to be King. hahahahahaha
22 posted on 05/19/2003 7:43:34 AM PDT by Cap'n Crunch
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To: sinkspur
You really ought to stop playing the victim.

You really can be a malicious and manipulative little SOB sometimes, Sink. You insult the majority of Catholics posting on this Religion Forum, then turn it back upon me as if I were the aggressor.

You really can be a bitter and vindictive man when you want to, who holds a grudge even after reconciliation with your Christian brethren, even though at times you are truly virtuous and genuinely charitable here.

Knock off the former and work on the latter. Everyone sees through your petty manipulations and persecution complex.

23 posted on 05/19/2003 7:44:33 AM PDT by Polycarp (the homo issue could be the albatross that "Read my lips" was for Bush's papa -- CKCA'ers, UNITE!!!)
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To: Polycarp
Boy, I guess I'm really out of the loop, what happened to sitetest, patent and siobhan???
24 posted on 05/19/2003 7:45:58 AM PDT by Cap'n Crunch
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To: Petronski; Cap'n Crunch
Siobhan hasn't returned since she left for Lent. Patent rarely posts now, and sitestest apparently lurks but rarely posts. I do not know anything more than this.
25 posted on 05/19/2003 7:48:56 AM PDT by Polycarp (the homo issue could be the albatross that "Read my lips" was for Bush's papa -- CKCA'ers, UNITE!!!)
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To: sinkspur
and your lame apology was so qualified as to be meaningless

And when did you publicly apologize for ANY of the malice you have spewed forth here towards me (want me to list it?) or to any of the other fine Catholics who have been the recipient of you bitter vitriol and malice?

I had already forgotten and forgiven, Sink.

You have this need to continue picking open old wounds.

They never heal that way. Take it from a Doctor.

26 posted on 05/19/2003 7:53:18 AM PDT by Polycarp (the homo issue could be the albatross that "Read my lips" was for Bush's papa -- CKCA'ers, UNITE!!!)
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To: Polycarp
Hunh. A dozen donuts says they'll be back. Care to wager?
27 posted on 05/19/2003 7:53:32 AM PDT by Cap'n Crunch
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To: Siobhan
Let us know if you're still out there.
28 posted on 05/19/2003 7:54:21 AM PDT by Polycarp (the homo issue could be the albatross that "Read my lips" was for Bush's papa -- CKCA'ers, UNITE!!!)
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To: sinkspur
Yes, that is what I said in post #9. For me, it is not a matter of "having been to one." (Through reading, I have enough information to get an idea of what the Tridentine Mass is). It is an issue of universality (Catholicity) and history. Though the Tridentine Mass was codified with the Council of Trent, its basic form has existed for far longer, probably to around the time of Constantine. There was some local variation, as one poster said on another forum, but the basic form was the same. Before Vatican II, one could travel from Italy to the Phillipines to the U.S., and still feel "at home" with the Mass, since Latin was used in all of these places. Mass should be a place where feels the closest to all members of the Church, regardless if you're at home or not. A liturgy that is said in a common tongue helps this unity.
29 posted on 05/19/2003 7:54:36 AM PDT by Pyro7480 (+ Vive Jesus! (Live Jesus!) +)
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To: Polycarp
Siobhan was supposed to move to Australia. That could explain her absence.
30 posted on 05/19/2003 7:55:18 AM PDT by Pyro7480 (+ Vive Jesus! (Live Jesus!) +)
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To: Polycarp
You really can be a bitter and vindictive man when you want to, who holds a grudge even after reconciliation with your Christian brethren, even though at times you are truly virtuous and genuinely charitable here.

Should I post your "apology" to me here and allow the forum to decide if you "reconciled"?

It was truly the first non-apology apology I've ever received, full of "conditions."

I will work on what I need to work on. You, Dr. Kopp, should count to ten before you shoot off your very talented mouth, questioning people's faith and allowing your emotions to get the best of you.

Calm down. I include you in the Traditionalists on FR if you prefer the Tridentine Mass to the Novus Ordo. I recall you saying you do.

I suppose it's a mistake to include the Trads with the SSPXers, so I should have made a further qualification. I tend to lump all the "prefer Latin" together, since I seem to get the same reaction to the Novus Ordo from all of them.

31 posted on 05/19/2003 7:56:38 AM PDT by sinkspur
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To: drstevej
I'm as amazed as anyone here at what's become of the Religion Forum.

Especially because my fellow integrists don't want anything more than a place to discuss what's become of our Church without being automatically dismissed as reactionary lunatics. We don't have too many places like that in our own Church.

We didn't set out to drive anybody else off the forum, yet it seems that's exactly what happened.

On the other hand, I do feel a little sinful schadenfreude at hearing some of the more liberal Catholics complaining that they don't have a voice here, no one listens to them anymore, and they're always being insulted, patronized and having their faith questioned.

Now they have some sense of what it's been like for us all this time in the Church.

32 posted on 05/19/2003 7:58:48 AM PDT by Loyalist (Keeper of the Schismatic Orc Ping List. Freepmail me if you want on or off it.)
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To: Polycarp
"In all things, charity."
33 posted on 05/19/2003 7:59:21 AM PDT by Pyro7480 (+ Vive Jesus! (Live Jesus!) +)
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To: SoothingDave
***There's a bunch of Protestants here***

Not really.
34 posted on 05/19/2003 8:00:20 AM PDT by drstevej
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To: Cap'n Crunch
I don't doubt they'll be back. I'll even admit Sink's point, that certain extreme trads/integrists have driven off some good faithful orthodox Catholic posters. But that wave has crested and passed, with the new hope from the Pope of a universal indult. Things are returning to a certain level of peace among the Catholic Caucus. But apparently Sink doesn't like the fact that this new equilibrium, like the entire Church at large, has settled farther to the right than is comfortable for his worldview.

The post-VII Spirit of VII "church" is vnishing, and orthodoxy and traditional forms of piety and liturgy are going to emerge victorious from the last 4 decades of darkness.

Some folks just need to deal with reality.

35 posted on 05/19/2003 8:00:23 AM PDT by Polycarp (the homo issue could be the albatross that "Read my lips" was for Bush's papa -- CKCA'ers, UNITE!!!)
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To: drstevej
Not really.

No? Are you arguing quantity or quality?

SD

36 posted on 05/19/2003 8:03:00 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: sinkspur
It was truly the first non-apology apology I've ever received, full of "conditions."

Sink, I am truly sorry I questioned your faith and said you were an embarassment to the Catholics here.

I know you are a good and decent man.

Please accept my public and sincere apologies for those remarks then and my further remarks on this Forum.

I do not desire to continue this feud with a man I honestly consider to be a friend.

Again, my apologies.

37 posted on 05/19/2003 8:03:42 AM PDT by Polycarp (the homo issue could be the albatross that "Read my lips" was for Bush's papa -- CKCA'ers, UNITE!!!)
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To: Pyro7480
Thank you for that rebuke. I have more of a temper than I'm willing to admit to myself.
38 posted on 05/19/2003 8:05:00 AM PDT by Polycarp (the homo issue could be the albatross that "Read my lips" was for Bush's papa -- CKCA'ers, UNITE!!!)
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To: drstevej
Now the transformation to a Catholic Religion Forum is almost complete. Must be a Marian miracle

Prophetic.

39 posted on 05/19/2003 8:06:14 AM PDT by Polycarp (the homo issue could be the albatross that "Read my lips" was for Bush's papa -- CKCA'ers, UNITE!!!)
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To: Polycarp
And when did you publicly apologize for ANY of the malice you have spewed forth here towards me (want me to list it?)

List it if you wish. I apologize to you, unconditionally.

40 posted on 05/19/2003 8:06:48 AM PDT by sinkspur
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To: Polycarp
You have FReepmail. I don't see it as an rebuke. I saw it as a spiritual work of mercy, which we're all called to practice.
41 posted on 05/19/2003 8:09:28 AM PDT by Pyro7480 (+ Vive Jesus! (Live Jesus!) +)
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To: sinkspur
Even worse, the Novus Ordo is demonized to the point that it is actually blamed (through linkage) for the sexual abuse crisis in the Church!

The common link is modernism. Although one would have to start with modernism as the root problem, and then novus ordo and the priest scandal branch off into two different directions.

Know modernism, know crisis. No modernism, no crisis.

42 posted on 05/19/2003 8:10:09 AM PDT by huskyboy (Introibo ad altare Dei; non ad altare hominis!)
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To: SoothingDave
Quantity primarily. Review the past few weeks at eh threads and see how few non_RC threads there are and how few posts these receive.
43 posted on 05/19/2003 8:10:19 AM PDT by drstevej
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To: sinkspur
see post 37.
44 posted on 05/19/2003 8:11:53 AM PDT by Polycarp (the homo issue could be the albatross that "Read my lips" was for Bush's papa -- CKCA'ers, UNITE!!!)
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To: huskyboy
Know modernism, know crisis. No modernism, no crisis.

Is that your creative motification of the phrase, "No Jesus, No Peace. Know Jesus, Know Peace?" ;-) My mom has that as a bumper sticker on her car.

45 posted on 05/19/2003 8:11:55 AM PDT by Pyro7480 (+ Vive Jesus! (Live Jesus!) +)
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To: sinkspur
Would tend to agree with sinkspur here. I have been slapped down several times.
46 posted on 05/19/2003 8:11:55 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Polycarp
***Prophetic.***

You would expect less from your future Pope? This is the unfolding of the Fourth Secret of Fatima.
47 posted on 05/19/2003 8:12:12 AM PDT by drstevej
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To: drstevej
I'm certainly glad that, what our next Pope might lack in Catholic orthodoxy, he more than makes up for in the humor department ;-)

By the way, are you aware that in Catholic prophecy, the next Pope is to become known as the "Black Pope"?

48 posted on 05/19/2003 8:15:06 AM PDT by Polycarp (the homo issue could be the albatross that "Read my lips" was for Bush's papa -- CKCA'ers, UNITE!!!)
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To: Salvation; sinkspur
See sinkspur, you do have support here. I'm glad you clarified the differences between traditionalists vs. schismatics. I have an idea from where you're coming from.
49 posted on 05/19/2003 8:15:56 AM PDT by Pyro7480 (+ Vive Jesus! (Live Jesus!) +)
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To: drstevej
I'm glad you can be a bit humorous when you're dealing with "us Catholics." Though you've locked horns with many of us, I'm pretty sure you're not full of vitriol towards us. I'm glad you have the courage to post here, because you often generate discussion, which is the point of FR.
50 posted on 05/19/2003 8:18:13 AM PDT by Pyro7480 (+ Vive Jesus! (Live Jesus!) +)
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