Catholic award withdrawn from lesbian

Minneapolis Star Tribune ^ | May 22, 2003 | Martha Sawyer Allen

[nickcarraway]

A Catholic religious education coordinator was denied an award from the Archdiocese of St. Paul and Minneapolis Wednesday evening because she is a lesbian, prompting a protest at the dinner honoring the other 17 recipients.

About 200 members of St. Joan of Arc Catholic Church demonstrated Wednesday night in support of Kathy Itzin, the church's religious education coordinator. Itzin, a member of St. Joan's, was to be one of 18 archdiocesan workers honored for their work in teaching young people about the faith. She is in a relationship with a partner, and they have four children, ages 10 to 16.

[nickcarraway]

ping

[GirlShortstop]

"The Catholic Church requests chastity of all of its members, including within a marriage with only the couple.  With sex outside a marriage relationship, whether heterosexual or homosexual, the same standard applies."

I am glad to see this point raised.  I have very little patience for the activist mentality whereby a favorite tactic in essence is to "throw a hissy fit", to convey that they're singled out, and such "victims".  

Any guesses on how quickly the NY Slimes will pick-up this story?

[JNB]

Ah my favorite parish, St Joan of Arc. In case anyone wants to look up thge web site, its www.stjoan.com please again, everyone, take a close look at it, it is so full of unintentional irony.

[Antoninus]

Matt Woodling, a member of St. Joan's, sent a public letter to Catholic Parents in which he said the organization "attacked a person I respect as much as anyone I know. Your statements serve a consistent purpose -- to cause pain, fear and suffering. Attacks such as this are against Jesus' teachings and are sinful in my eyes. I will not let you do this again without a fight."

Cry me a river, pal. Who exactly are you to decide what is sinful and what isn't.

[Antoninus]

Itzin said, "I've tried to live a life of integrity. It's nice to be recognized, but the award is not the issue. The issue is how the church is treating gay and lesbian people and how we respond to that."

I'll tell you how to respond to it. "Go forth, and sin no more."

If Archbishop Flynn really wanted to hammer his point home, he could have given this woman her award, but directly afterward, given a public talk on how those with same sex attractions are called to live chaste lives, etc.

[narses]

Ping.

[HatSteel]

I doubt that I'll see the US Army bestowing many medals on the Baathist troops in Iraq, either.

You don't get a medal if you're on the wrong side.

[dsc]

"the church's religious education coordinator"

How in the world could this situation exist? Isn't *anybody* minding the store?

[dsc]

"I've tried to live a life of integrity."

Well, you failed, sweetie.

[JNB]

more details

http://www.stjoan.com/itzinfr.htm

[Salvation]

**Archbishop Harry Flynn withdrew the award for Itzin after Catholic Parents Online, a Twin Cities group that supports orthodox teachings of the church, sent him a letter pointing out that Itzin is a lesbian.**

This is the third Arch/bishop today who did the right thing! I am impressed!

[Salvation]

**Melissa Uzelac, archdiocesan spokeswoman, said, "The Catholic Church requests chastity of all of its members, including within a marriage with only the couple. With sex outside a marriage relationship, whether heterosexual or homosexual, the same standard applies."**

Yes! Getting the message out!

[dsc]

Oh, please, give me a barf-bag heads up.

Rrrrrrreeettttttcccccchhhhhh.

[ventana]

I am convinced that we need to pray fervantly for Archbishop Flynn, he is directly engaging the enemy in a way others of his rank don't care to or dare to. Pray to St. Michael for the Archbishop. V's wife.

[pegleg]

"What Catholic Parents OnLine upholds are not opinions or preferences. We uphold Sacred Catholic Tradition and Scripture -- which is not against people, but against any principles that conflict with natural order which is God's order."

This statement should come from the mouth of every Bishop in the Church. The fact that it took a Catholic lay organization to bring this to the attention of the Archdiocese is disturbing. But God Bless Archbishop Harry Flynn for doing what needed to be done.

Itzin said, "I've tried to live a life of integrity. It's nice to be recognized, but the award is not the issue. The issue is how the church is treating gay and lesbian people and how we respond to that."

“We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him.” (1 John 2:3-5).

[netmilsmom]

My lesbian sister found a Catholic priest in Cleveland to marry her to her lover. To her, she is married and not living in sin.
The problem is that the church is sending a mixed message by not curbing homosexual priests. I can't stand it.

[redhead]

Incidentally, this bishop was only able to ordain 6 priests this year. Are his numbers shrinking or growing? Inquiring minds want to know.

I do know this: When Human Life International held their international congress in St. Paul a few years ago, The Mighty Harry Flynn was coerced by the queers in the area not to participate, after he had already agreed to celebrate the main Mass and to present a keynote speech. I really have to wonder which side of this fence Mighty Harry is on.

[Maximilian]

My lesbian sister found a Catholic priest in Cleveland to marry her to her lover.

Check out post #17.

That and the original article confirm my point about the lesbian DRE's. The fact that they are homosexuals means that they are living as homosexuals, one way or another. If they're not running "dyke farms" they're hanging out at gay bars or spending their time at Edgewater park. Whatever they're doing, it's something that would make you lose your lunch if you knew the details. That's part and parcel of being homosexual. Hopefully we haven't become so desensitized that we forget this reality.

I know a policeman who used to patrol the Edgewater neighborhood, and he said that their lives were anything but "gay." The sordidness was revolting.

[eastsider]

Wertin said both incidents show that "St. Joan's is certainly being hit." He added, "It seems" that Catholic Parents Online is "focusing on any parishes that are inclusive and supportive in any way of gay and lesbian communities."

If there's anyone from Catholic Parents Online listening, the list of "Gay Friendly Parishes" in the U.S. is maintained by St. Bernadette parish in the diocese of Baltimore (Cardinal Keeler).

God speed, CPO.

[Diamond]

the list of "Gay Friendly Parishes" in the U.S. is maintained by St. Bernadette parish in the diocese of Baltimore (Cardinal Keeler).

Hello, eastsider. I hope everything is going well with you.

Pardon the dumb question, but What in the hell is going ON here?!

Cordially,

[Loyalist]

Pingus ad orcae schismaticae et bumpus ad summum.

[conservonator]

Pardon the dumb question, but What in the hell is going ON here?!

The usual, the evil one is attempting to make life miserable for Christians.

[NYer]

please again, everyone, take a close look at it

Here's a real eye opener!!

Past Homilies

The homilies at St. Joan of Arc are often challenging and thought provoking. The website has received numerous requests for text versions of Sunday homilies. Despite the fact that we offer audio versions on our highlights page, sometimes it is helpful to read and re-read passages of the homily. Not all homilists work from a text version and some are just outlines. However, we offer here the homilies we have received for your perusal.

May 18th 2003	... Childrens Sunday, "The Hands of Peace”- Unavailable
Sunday, May 11th 2003	... tornados slam East Central states, high school hazing gets out of hand, Wild beat Vancouver in hockey playoffs and... Cheryl Thomas speaks on "Women, Mothers and Human Rights"
Sunday, May 4th 2003	... Iraq starts the rebuilding process, handgun bill passes in MN, Colorado climber amputates arm to save life and... Anne Garvey speaks on "Shared Ministry"
Sunday, April 27th 2003	... Tom Davis, Carol Fogarty and Mark Nolan, "Small Christian Communities”- Unavailable

[TradicalRC]

Lesbians being refused an award; I hate when that happens.

Why do homosexuals think their sin is NOT sin? Or that their sin is special? I have to wrestle with my sin constantly, but I don't pretend that my sin doesn't stink.

Christ said something about sins against the Holy Spirit being unforgivable. It seems that the sin was basically calling good evil and evil good. To call a sin good and Christian reproval evil fits this description.

[ninenot]

Well, old Harry has had his 'walk on the wild side,' and there's PLENTY of work left to do to bring the Church in the Twin Cities back around to some semblance of Catholicism--but give him credit--he found the first of the 12 steps, anyway...

[royalcello]

For more on Archbishop Harry Flynn, see this article:

What Ever Happened to the Counterrevolution?

[sneakers]

What hypocracy is this parish advocating when they allow a lesbian to teach Catholic Christian values to children?!

[Flying Circus]

I seems that most of the homilies at this place are not given by the priest. Here is just a sample of the bilge they spew at St. Joan of Arc Church from Jan 18 "Is St. Joan of Arc Too Political?"

Here at St. Joan’s our understanding of following Jesus comes to us by using the best theological tools available (we have a staff that is highly trained in contemporary theology). For the past 10 years our staff has been reading and discussing the best theological materials available. Many of you have used those same resources in your study groups and in your SCCs. From these activities a particular theology is being formed and is emerging. And sometimes this emerging theology is at odds with traditional Christian theology. Some of those components of this theology you have heard George, myself, and others talk about are: Moving from an ancient worldview, where God is out there; to an integrated worldview, where God is within. Moving from a fall-redemption theology to a creation-centered theology - from original sin to original blessing. Moving from a high Christology - Jesus as God, to a low Christology - Jesus as human. Moving from a dominator way of being in the world to a partnership way of being in the world. As emphasized here at SJA through collaborative ministry. Moving from a spirituality based in hierarchy, doctrine, obedience, and pietism, to a spirituality based in relationships, creating partnerships, personal growth, meditation, and a holistic way of life.

[Flying Circus]

I seems that most of the homilies at this place are not given by the priest. Here is just a sample of the bilge they spew at St. Joan of Arc Church from Jan 18 "Is St. Joan of Arc Too Political?"

Here at St. Joan’s our understanding of following Jesus comes to us by using the best theological tools available (we have a staff that is highly trained in contemporary theology). For the past 10 years our staff has been reading and discussing the best theological materials available. Many of you have used those same resources in your study groups and in your SCCs. From these activities a particular theology is being formed and is emerging. And sometimes this emerging theology is at odds with traditional Christian theology. Some of those components of this theology you have heard George, myself, and others talk about are:

Moving from an ancient worldview, where God is out there; to an integrated worldview, where God is within.
Moving from a fall-redemption theology to a creation-centered theology - from original sin to original blessing.
Moving from a high Christology - Jesus as God, to a low Christology - Jesus as human.
Moving from a dominator way of being in the world to a partnership way of being in the world. As emphasized here at SJA through collaborative ministry.
Moving from a spirituality based in hierarchy, doctrine, obedience, and pietism, to a spirituality based in relationships, creating partnerships, personal growth, meditation, and a holistic way of life.

[drstevej]

BTW, I listened to a mass on ETWN last night ....until the homilee.

The priest said, "God the Father Loves God the Son, God the Son loves God the Father. And the love they have for each other is the Holy Spirit."

-- sounded like Herbert W. Armstrong. At that point, I moved on to another channel.

[Flying Circus]

Ouch. That is not an idea that I would defend, nor do I think it is supported by Catholic orthodoxy. We recognize the HS as a separate person of the trinity, God the Holy Spirit, not simply and effect or attribute of God the Father or God the Son.

[drstevej]

I was stunned that that EWTN would broadcast that!

[Flying Circus]

I've not had much opportunity to see EWTN, but what I have seen and very much of what I have heard is excellent. That an idea like that would be promulgated through them is sad and hopefully just an aberration that escaped management notice.

[southern_living]

They abandoned the fall/redemption theology?? "Low" Christology?? These people are not Christians by any stretch of the imagination. They openly admit to centering their worship on the created instead of the Creator. Talk about going to hell in a handbasket.

[NYer]

the list of "Gay Friendly Parishes" in the U.S. is maintained by St. Bernadette parish in the diocese of Baltimore (Cardinal Keeler).

Looks like California tips the scales! This one caught my eye ... Emmanuel Church of the Deaf - Rochester, NY

Is this parish set up for deaf gays??? Or, have the local gays mastered sign language in their effort to "fit in".

[Polycarp]

"God the Father Loves God the Son, God the Son loves God the Father. And the love they have for each other is the Holy Spirit."

This formula is ancient.

From the 1907 Catholic Encyclopedia:

Holy Ghost:

... It is likewise an article of faith that the Holy Ghost does not proceed, like the Second Person of the Trinity, by way of generation. Not only is the Second Person alone called Son in the Scriptures, not only is He alone said to be begotten, but He is also called the only Son of God; the ancient symbol that bears the name of Saint Athanasius states expressly that "the Holy Ghost comes from the Father and from the Son not made not created, not generated, but proceeding ". As we are utterly incapable of otherwise fixing the meaning of the mysterious mode affecting this relation of origin, we apply to it the name spiration, the signification of which is principally negative and by way of contrast, in the sense that it affirms a Procession peculiar to the Holy Ghost and exclusive of filiation. But though we distinguish absolutely and essentially between generation and spiration, it is a very delicate and difficult task to say what the difference is. St. Thomas (I, Q. xxvii), following St. Augustine (Do Trin., XV, xxvii), finds the explanation and, as it the were, the epitome, of the doctrine in principle that, in God, the Son proceeds through the Intellect and the Holy Ghost through the Will. The Son is, in the language of Scripture, the image of the Invisible God, His Word, His uncreated wisdom. God contemplates Himself and knows Himself from all eternity, and, knowing Himself, He forms within Himself a substantial idea of Himself, and this substantial thought is His Word. Now every act of knowledge is accomplished by the production in the intellect of a representation of the object known; from this head, then the process offers a certain analogy with generation, which is the production by a living being of a being partaking of the same nature; and the analogy is only so much the more striking when there is question of this act of Divine knowledge, the eternal term of which is a substantial being, consubstantial within the knowing subject. As to the Holy Ghost, according to the common doctrine of theologians, He proceeds through the will. The Holy Spirit, as His name indicates, is Holy in virtue of His origin, His spiration; He comes therefore from a holy principle; now holiness resides in the will, as wisdom is in the intellect. That is also the reason why He is so often called par excellence, in the writings of the Fathers, Love and Charity. The Father and the Son love one another from all eternity, with a perfect ineffable love; the term of this infinite fruitful mutual love is Their Spirit Who is co-eternal and con-substantial with Them. Only, the Holy Ghost is not indebted to the manner of His Procession precisely for this perfect resemblance to His principle, in other words for His consubstantiality; for to will or love an object does not formally imply the production of its immanent image in the soul that loves, but rather a tendency, a movement of the will towards the thing loved, to be united to it and enjoy it. So, making every allowance for the feebleness of our intellects in knowing, and the unsuitability of our words for expressing the mysteries of the Divine life, if we can grasp how the word generation, freed from all the imperfections of the material order may be applied by analogy to the Procession of the Word, so we may see that the term can in no way befittingly applied to the Procession of the Holy Ghost.

At that point, I moved on to another channel.

What he said was a too simplistic explanation of the bold area above.

But from a Catholic perspective it is an ancient understanding of the Trinity.

[Polycarp]

That is not an idea that I would defend, nor do I think it is supported by Catholic orthodoxy

See the bold section above of the 1907 Catholic Encyclopedia entry for "Holy Ghost."

[NYer]

It seems that the sin was basically calling good evil and evil good. To call a sin good and Christian reproval evil fits this description.

An excellent article in this week's edition of The Wanderer by Frank Morriss. Here is his opening paragraph.

INSISTENCE ON EGALITE UNDERLIES OUR INSANITY

Life in modern America is becoming more and more like the theater of the absurd. Such Sartrean celebration of nothingness was popular after WWII in observance of Jean Paul Sartre's insistence that life is meaningless since it comes to us without our consent, and therefore is an imposition upon our freedom.

Consider the law in Oregon that demands taxpayers provide interpreters for the mentally disturbed who speak other languages. That is being interpreted by Multnomah County (Portland) to mean it must provide an interpreter knowledgeable in Klingon for some inmates of what used to be called asylums who insist on speaking only Klingon. The county is advertising for such interpreters, who undoubtedly will be well paid at taxpayers' expense. The rub, of course, is just how anyone who isn't from the Star Trek cosmos will be able to know whether the interpreter is really from the planet of the Klingons, or is just making it all up, the way the scriptwriter of Star Trek did for the space odyssey production.

Then there is the proposed (or perhaps by now enacted) California law that forbids employers from turning down job applicants on the grounds they are "cross-dressers". Never mind that it might destroy a business to have behind the counter a man who is wearing a dress and lipstick and mascara. Liberty and equality today mean protection for being openly and in-your-face peculiar and even weird to the point that everyone else is required to treat you as if you were perfectly normal. Thus we have to go along and play the game with transvestites or thos poor victims of unreality who think they are of the wrinkled-forehead race of Klingons who threatened Federation explorers in the TV fantasy. The joke is on normal folk, who have to pay for this nonsense with real hard cash.

* * *

It's too long to post but truly captures the spirit of the insanity that now prevails on this spinning planet.

[NYer]

Moving from a high Christology - Jesus as God, to a low Christology - Jesus as human.

And I'll bet the sheeples lap this bilge up each week!

And sometimes this emerging theology is at odds with traditional Christian theology.

Christian theology as in "catholic" theology or "all christian" theology? Why isn't this parish shut down by the bishop? Wait, I take that back. The bishop sanctions these folks because they're filling the pews and his coffers.

Each time I read stories like this one or the one about the neo-pagan liturgy at the San Antonio cathedral, or look at images from the most recently wreckovated cathedrals, the image of an angry Jesus turning over the money changers tables, rapidly comes to mind. "You will not defile my Father's house!".

[Kuksool]

A step in the right direction for the Catholic Church.

[drstevej]

I'm sure this is the source. It was stated overly simplistically by the priest. Nevertheless, eve the bold type you cite deemphasizes both the personality and the deity of the Holy Spirit.

[ultima ratio]

Why? Such Trinitarian concepts go back to the second century.

[Polycarp]

Nevertheless, eve the bold type you cite deemphasizes both the personality and the deity of the Holy Spirit.

If you follow the link I posted, you will find a wonderful explanation of the Holy Ghost wherein the context will make this excerpt seem less offending.

[TxBec]

Each time I read stories like this one or the one about the neo-pagan liturgy at the San Antonio cathedral,

haven't heard about that...got a link?

[NYer]

got a link?

Here you go ..... http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/915690/posts

[Flying Circus]

Thanks for the reference. As always, there is more for me to learn and understand, and this idea is one that I've not ever contemplated before. It makes me glad to be able to look to 20 centuries of orthodox Christian theological thinking- there are so many things I could not even conceive of on my own.

[iconoclast]

bump for later