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HaSheeloosh HaKadosh: The Holy Trinity
Shema.com ^ | Congregation Shema Yisrael, A.W. Tozer, Dr.

Posted on 06/10/2003 2:31:07 PM PDT by Salvation

HaSheeloosh HaKadosh: The Holy Trinity

It is crucial to know who God really is. If we would have true spiritual power, if we would experience God's blessing, and if we would have eternal life, we must think of God as He is, not as we think He is. Idolatry does not consist only in bowing before statues. The essence of idolatry is having thoughts about God that are untrue and unworthy of Him.

The knowledge of the HaSheeloosh HaKadosh (the Holy Trinity) does not come from nature, but from divine revelation. Reason may lead us to believe in the oneness of God, but it takes God's self-disclosure to reveal His Tri-unity, His Three-in-Oneness. It took special revelation, God's self disclosure in His Word, to reveal that His nature is one of Plurality-in-Singleness, Trinity-in-Unity, Three-in-Oneness. Since God has revealed His unique Tri-une nature, it is essential that we think of God as He is or suffer the most dire consequences.

There are many people who reject everything that they cannot understand or explain. They toss out anything that does not make sense to them, or does not seem reasonable. Applying this principle to Almighty God (for whom nothing is impossible), they conclude that it is impossible that He can be Three and yet One. They deny the Trinity on the grounds that it doesn't make sense to them.

These people forget that their whole life is surrounded by mysteries they do not understand. They fail to consider that any real explanation of even the simplest phenomenon in nature lies in hidden obscurity, beyond their comprehension. Despite the great advancements in science over the past five hundred years we still can't answer most of the questions that the Almighty posed to Job: Have you ever commanded the morning, and caused the dawn to know its place? Have you walked in the recesses of the deep? Can you bind the chains of the Pleiades, or loose the cords of Orion? Can you lead forth a constellation in its season, and guide the Bear with her satellites? Do you know the ordinances of the heavens, or fix their rule over the earth? Do you give the horse his might? Is it by your understanding that the hawk soars, stretching his wings? Is it at your command that the eagle mounts up?

Do you know why your nose appreciates the smell of a rose but is repulsed by the odor of rotting garbage? Do you understand how your eye can see? Do you understand why electrons spinning around the nucleus of an atom don't go flying off into space? Do you understand the zoo of subatomic particles like protons, neutrons, electrons, leptons, baryons, gluons, muons, taus, neutrinos, mesons, and the various quarks that are the basic building blocks of energy and matter? We don't fully understand the workings of a simple cell in our bodies, or how a seed grows. We don't understand why a baby takes its first breath. Most of us don't know why a rainbow forms the way does, or how a beautiful sunset takes shape, or how a computer computes, or how a fax faxes. This universe, even after all our advances in science, is still an inscrutable mystery.

Since we can't understand the fall of a leaf from a tree, the hatching of a robin's egg in our front yard, the mystery of a caterpillar spinning a cocoon and emerging as a spectacular butterfly, how a spider knows to spin a complex, strong and beautiful web, how a salmon returns to the exact spot in the river where it was born three years earlier, why should we expect to fathom the greatest mystery of all, the eternal, all powerful, all knowing and all wise Three-in-One? No finite being is capable of understanding an infinite God.

The fact that the Trinity cannot be satisfactorily explained is actually a strong argument in its favor, because the Uncreated is ultimately unknowable by any created thing. One wise man observed this: We think more loftily of God by knowing that He is incomprehensible and above our understanding than by conceiving Him according to our crude understanding. God cannot be fully known by man, unless the unknowable could be known, and the invisible seen, and the inaccessible attained, and the incomprehensible understood. If we could understand God, then He would have to be less than God.

In fact God's divine revelation, the Bible, affirms the total inability of the human mind to come to know the mystery of the Holy Trinity. He dwells in unapproachable light whom no man has seen or can see (1 Tim. 6:16). The Lord can never be comprehended as He is in Himself. Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is too high, I cannot attain to it wise King David admitted (Psalm 139:6). Our best efforts to grasp the mystery of the Trinity will always be futile. Only by faith, by trusting and believing God's special revelation, the Bible, can we come anywhere close to knowing Him.

The Trinity was first hinted at in the Tenach (the Hebrew Scriptures): In the first verse of the Jewish Bible, God is revealed as a unity with a plurality.

Plural Name: "Elohim" is the third word of the Hebrew Scriptures: In the beginning "Elohim" - "God" (Genesis 1:1). Elohim comes from a root that means "strength, might, or power." "Elohim" is the most common word for "God" and is used over 2300 times in the Scriptures. "Elohim" is plural and can be literally translated as "gods." Exodus 12:12 refers to "all the elohim (gods) of Egypt." "Eloah" is the singular form of "Elohim," but it is used much less frequently - only 250 times. This plural name that is applied to the One God is a hint of the plural/singular nature of God that is more fully revealed in the rest of the Scriptures.

Plural Verbs: Normally the plural name "Elohim" is followed by a singular verb. But there are several fascinating instances when "Elohim" is accompanied by a plural verb. Genesis 20:13 literally says in Hebrew that Elohim (God) they caused me to wander from my father's house... And in Genesis 35:7 Elohim (God) they appeared to him. 2 Samuel 7:23 says: What nation on the earth is like Your people Israel, whom Elohim they went to redeem for Himself. Psalm 58:11 declares that surely there is a God they judge the earth.

Plural Pronouns: There are times when plural pronouns are used to describe the One God. The Lord God, speaking in Genesis 1:26 says: Let Us make man in Our image according to Our likeness. (See also Genesis 3:22, 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8 for other instances of plural pronouns that refer to God).

Plural Nouns: There are several intriguing occurrences where plural nouns refer to the one God: The LORD... He is a holy God [literally holy Gods] (Joshua 24:19). Remember your Creator [literally Creators] in the days of your youth (Ec. 12:1). Let Israel rejoice in his Maker [literally Makers] (Psalm 149:2). For your Maker [literally Makers] is your husband [literally husbands] (Isaiah 54:5).

Plural Descriptions: In the Tenach there are mysterious plural descriptions of the Three-in-One God. King David writes: The Lord (Adonai) says to my Lord: sit at my right hand until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet (Psalm 110:1). Psalm 45:6-7 records this: Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; a scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness, therefore God, Your God has anointed You with the oil of joy more than Your fellows. The apostle to the Messianic Jews applies this passage to Messiah, declaring that Yeshua is God, and that His Father is God (see Hebrews 1:8-9).

In Genesis 1:1-3 God (Elohim, which is a plural), the Spirit of God and the Word of God (and God said...), are all involved in the creation of the universe.

In Isaiah 48 One speaks who calls Himself the first and the last, and the One who founded the earth. He goes on to say that from the first I have not spoken in secret, from the time it took place I was there. And now the Lord God has sent Me, and His Spirit (Isaiah 48:12-16). The Creator who is speaking claims to have been sent by the Lord God and His Spirit!

In the Jewish Bible God is pictured sitting on His throne in Heaven, and at the same time He is present everywhere throughout the universe (where can I go from Your Spirit? Where can I flee from Your Presence? - Psalm 139:7), and at the same time the Spirit of God was dwelling in the prophets, and at the same time the Shechinah (God's Dwelling Presence, the Glory of God, the Holy Spirit) was manifested in the Jerusalem Temple (1 Kings 8:27)!

From time to time God manifested Himself as the enigmatic Angel of the Lord, a mysterious messenger being (angel means messenger) who appeared throughout our people's history. When He appeared this mysterious angel was treated as God Himself. He possessed divine prerogatives, He had divine authority, and He received divine worship. When Manoah, the father of Samson, finally realized that he was dealing with the Angel of the Lord, he said to his wife, we shall surely die, for we have seen God (Judges 13:21-22). In that same chapter, God is mentioned, the Angel of the Lord (who is called God), is mentioned, and the Spirit of God is mentioned. (See Genesis 16:7, 9, 11, Exodus 3:2-6, Judges 2:1-4, 6:11-22, for other appearances of this mysterious Angel of the Lord).

What about the Shema? Some have objected that the Shema (Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One - Deut. 6:4) reveals that God can only be a simple unity. But there are two Hebrew words for "one" - "echad" and "yachid." "Echad," which is used to describe the oneness of God in the Shema, connotes a composite oneness, as in the unity of a husband and wife, which are said to be "one" flesh (Genesis 2:24). "Yachid," which is not used in the Shema, connotes an absolute oneness, as that of an only son (Genesis 22:2). The Shema teaches the unity of God, based on a oneness that allows for a composite Three-In-Oneness.

HaSheeloosh HaKadosh was clearly revealed by Messiah Yeshua: God's singular/plural nature was hinted at, but not fully understood by the holy Jewish prophets and priests in the Tenach. It took the revelation of the Son of God to clearly and fully reveal God's Three-in-Oneness.

In many ways Messiah Yeshua claimed equality with God: Messiah Yeshua did not hesitate to use the plural when speaking of Himself along with the Father. We will come to Him and make Our abode with him (John 14:23). I and My Father are One (John 10:30). He stated that the person who had seen Him had seen God (John 14:8-9). He told us that we are to be immersed in the name (singular) of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit (Matt. 28:19). When Yeshua told a group of Jewish leaders, Before Abraham was, I Am (John 8:58), He claimed to be the same eternal "I Am" God that appeared to Moses at the burning bush (See Exodus 3:14). He claimed to be omnipresent, which is only applicable to God. He stated that wherever two or three are gathered in His name, He is there in their midst (Matt. 18:20). He promised to be with each one of His followers to the end of time (Matt. 28:20). He claimed the attribute of omnipotence when He said that all authority in heaven and on earth has been entrusted to Him, and that He has power over all things (Matt. 28:18). Even though honor and worship is something that only God can receive, Yeshua instructed us that He was to be equally worshipped along with the Father. All are to honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him (John 5:23). He claimed to be the proper object of our faith, and that if we believed in Him we would live forever but if we didn't we would miss eternal life (John 3:16, 8:24).

Yeshua claimed to do mighty works that only God can do: He claimed that He is the source of life (John 14:6), and that He gives eternal life to whom He wishes (John 5:2), when God alone is the Source and Giver of life. Even though God is the only one that prayer may be directed to, Yeshua claimed that He hears and answers prayers from all people at all times in all places. Whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If You ask Me anything in My name, I will do it (John 14:13-14). He claimed that He sends the Holy Spirit (John 15:26), something that only God can do. He claimed that He indwells all believers (John 14:23), something that only God can do. He claimed that He will be the One who raises the dead on the Last Day (John 10:37-38, 11:25), something that only God will do. He claimed that on the Day of Judgement all human beings will appear before Him for their judgement (John 5:22, 27), something that only God will do. He claimed to have authority to forgive sins, something that only God can do (Luke 5:17-26).

Messiah Yeshua made these claims about Himself. By doing so He was the first to clearly reveal these truths about the unique unity of nature and relationship between Him and His Father. Then He proved His claims by doing signs and wonders and mighty acts of power that demonstrated that He was supernaturally sent and empowered by God. Yeshua demonstrated His power to heal. He showed His power to raise the dead. He demonstrated His power over nature. He manifested His power over Satan and all the hosts of hell. He proved that He had authority over His own life, authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. Since God would never allow a liar or a deceiver to be raised from the dead, Yeshua's resurrection from the dead was the final demonstration that everything that He said and did and claimed was done with God's blessing and approval, and that what Messiah Yeshua said was the absolute truth. That is why a leading rabbi like Nicodemus could say to Him: Rabbi, we know that you come from God as a teacher, for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with Him (John 3:2). However, most of the Jewish leaders were not like good rabbi Nicodemus. Many were furious with Yeshua because they understood that He was a man who was making Himself out to be God (John 10:33). It was not Yeshua's claim to be the Messiah that led to His crucifixion; it was His claim to have equality with the Father, to be God in the flesh, that outraged the religious leaders of His day. They rejected His claim of oneness with God, which led to the most dire consequences in their own lives and the life of the entire nation of Israel that has lasted to this day.

Knowing that the Trinity was hinted at in the Tenach and made clear by Messiah Yeshua demonstrates that the Old and New Testaments are in perfect agreement, and that the New Testament is the true spiritual heir of the Old Testament.

Not only was the Three-in-Oneness of God hinted at in the Tenach (the Hebrew Scriptures), and made clear by Messiah Yeshua, but His Jewish Apostles taught that Yeshua is God in human form, and therefore the Trinity is true: Even though these Jewish men were trained in the Shema (Deut. 6:4 - Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one) and the first and second commandments, they state as absolute fact that Yeshua is the source of all life (something that is only true of God - see John 1:4, 5:21, 14:6). They claim that He created all things (see John 1:3). They taught that He preceded all things; that all things were created by Him and for Him; that He upholds all things, and in Him all things hold together (Col. 1:16-17, Hebrews 1:3). They claim that in the future Yeshua will first dissolve and then remake the entire universe (something that only God can do - see Heb. 1:10-12, Phil. 3:21, Rev. 21:5). They claim that like God, Messiah Yeshua is immutable - He never changes - He is the same yesterday, today and forever (see Heb. 13:8). They taught that Yeshua has the very form of God, which means He has God's essential attributes. He possesses inwardly and displays outwardly the very essence and nature of God; Messiah Yeshua is God's equal, and possesses complete equality with God (Phil. 2:6-8). They taught that Messiah Yeshua radiates God's glory and exactly represents God's nature (Heb. 1:3). They claim that the Lord God was pleased for all His fullness to dwell in Yeshua (Col. 1:19), and that in Yeshua all the fullness of God dwells in bodily form (Col. 2:9).

These Jewish apostles taught the Tri-une nature of God by the worship Messiah Yeshua receives: It is very clear from Holy Scripture that God alone is to be worshipped. No man, woman, saint, angel, or any created being is ever to be worshipped. But these Jewish emissaries testify that since He is equal to God, Messiah Yeshua is to be worshipped by both angels and men: Let all the angels of God worship Him (Heb. 1:6). Those who were with Him in the boat worshiped Him saying, You are certainly God's Son! (Matt. 14:33). These apostles declare that throughout eternity Messiah Yeshua will be worshipped by all created beings: At the name of Yeshua every knee will bow of those who are in heaven, and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Yeshua the Messiah is Lord, to the glory of God the Father (Phil. 2:10-11). To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever (Rev. 5:13).

The Tri-unity of God is seen by the titles these Jewish apostles call Him: They called Him the Savior (a title which can only apply to God - see Is. 45:21, Acts 4:12, 2 Peter 2:20). They refer to Him as the Redeemer (which properly applies to the God of Israel - see Is. 41:14, Col. 1:14, Titus 2:13-14). Like the God of Israel, Yeshua is called the First and the Last (see Isaiah 44:6, Rev. 1:17). Like Israel's God, Yeshua is the Holy One of Israel (see Isaiah 43:14, Acts 3:14). They recognized that Yeshua is the unique Son of God, the One who bears the same divine nature as His Father (see Psalm 2:7-12, Matt. 16:16, 26:61-64).

These Jewish emissaries called Yeshua "Lord" in the Brit Chadasha (New Testament) with the same frequency and regularity that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is called "Lord" in the Tenach (Hebrew Scriptures). Yes Lord, you know that I love you. Yes, Lord, I have believed that you are the Messiah, the Son of God. Lord Yeshua receive my spirit. Believe in the Lord Yeshua and you shall be saved. And the Lord said "I am Yeshua." The grace of our Lord Yeshua the Messiah be with you. He is the King of kings and the Lord of lords, the Lord of all, the Lord of the living and the dead, the Lord of all who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth. These Jewish apostles are in complete agreement with the prophet Jeremiah who said that the Messiah's name ("name" means nature, essential characteristics) is "Adonai Tzidkaynu," "the Lord our Righteousness" (Jeremiah 23:5-6).

Perhaps strongest of all, these Jewish apostles claimed that Messiah Yeshua was "God": These Jewish men sent by the Master of the Universe claimed that Yeshua was eternally with God (In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God), and that He is completely, totally, and fully identified as God, and that He is in fact God (and the Word was God - see John 1:1-2). My Lord and my God declared Thomas when he saw the resurrected Yeshua (John 20:28). The apostle to the Messianic Jews writes: But of the Son He (God) says, Thy throne O God is forever and ever (Heb 1:8). In other words, God the Father acknowledged that His Son was truly God.

The apostles looked forward to the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Messiah Yeshua (Titus 2:13). These Jewish apostles are in perfect harmony with the prophet Isaiah, who wrote that the Messiah will be the son that is born to us and "El Gibor," the "Mighty God" (Isaiah 9:6-7).

One modern rabbi made this observation: "Is your master God? For now I realize only God can demand of me what Yeshua is asking. (A Rabbi Talks With Jesus, Doubleday, 1993, pp. 53-54).

The attack on the doctrine of the Trinity in the fourth century by Arius and others was aimed at this claim to Messiah Yeshua's deity and therefore the doctrine of the Trinity. During the Arian controversy many of leaders of the Church met at Nicea and adopted a statement of faith dealing with the Three-in-One nature of God. I believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And I believe in one Lord, Yeshua the Messiah, the only begotten Son of God. Born of the Father before all ages, God of God, Light of Light, true God of true God. Begotten, not made, of one substance with the Father. By whom all things were made.

The Nicene Creed also declares that the Ruach HaKodesh, the Holy Spirit, is fully God, and equal to the Father and the Son: And I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. Who together with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified. For more than 1600 years this statement has stood as the final test of orthodoxy and genuine Biblical faith, for it condenses and expresses in theological language the teaching of both the Tenach and the New Testament, concerning Yeshua's divinity and the truth of God's Three-in-One nature.

How does the truth of the Trinity harmonize with the statement of Yeshua: My Father is greater than I (John 14:28)? The old theologians knew, and wrote in another creed: He is equal to His Father as touching His Godhead; He is less than the Father as touching His manhood. Since God can never become less than Himself, it was impossible for Yeshua to surrender anything of His essential deity. When God took upon Himself the nature of man, Yeshua did not become less than God. In the incarnation the Son of God added humanity (which was already made in God's image), but He did not diminish His essential deity. When Yeshua became a man He veiled His deity, but He did not void it.

God the Father, Messiah Yeshua, and the Spirit have a single will: A popular belief among some Christians divides the work of God between the Three, assigning a specific part to each One. For instance, creation is attributed to the Father, redemption to the Son, and regeneration to the Holy Spirit. But God cannot divide Himself so that the Father works while the Son doesn't. The Tri-une God always works together. The smallest act is never done by One without the instant agreement of the other Two. Every act of God is done by the Trinity in perfect unity. Don't think of the Father, the Son and the Spirit conferring with one another, huddling together like some football team. Think rather of a perfect sharing of mind, a complete oneness of will, a total unity of purpose, an infinite unified wisdom, perfect mutual understanding, taking place instantaneously and eternally.

The Tri-une God works in perfect unity in all the mighty works that are done throughout the universe. The work of creation is attributed to the Father (Gen. 1:1), and to the Son (Col. 1:16), and to the Spirit (Gen. 1:2, Psalm 33:6). The Incarnation is shown to have been accomplished by the Father and the Son and the Spirit working in one accord, although only the Messiah became flesh to dwell among us (Luke 1:35). At Messiah's tevilah (baptism) the Son came up out of the water, the Spirit descended on Him, and the Father's voice spoke from heaven (Mt. 3:16-17). The resurrection of Messiah is likewise attributed to the Father (Acts 2:32), and to the Son (John 10:17-18), and to the Holy Spirit (Rom. 1:4). One of the most beautiful descriptions of the work of atonement is found in Hebrews 9:14, where it is stated that Messiah Yeshua, through the eternal Spirit, offered Himself without blemish to God. The salvation of each individual is shown by Simon Peter to be the work of the Holy Trinity. Peter informs us that we are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for the purpose that we may obey Messiah Yeshua (1 Pet. 1:2). Each child of God is said to be indwelt by the Three-in-One God. Messiah Yeshua promised us: I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He (the Spirit) may be with you forever... I will come to you... We (Yeshua and His Father) will come to you and make Our abode with you (John 14:15-23).

The true Messianic Community has not hesitated to teach the Tri-unity of God. Without pretending to understand this mystery, the community of saints has given its witness to this revealed truth and repeated what the Holy Scriptures teach. Just as the presence of God was in the pillar of fire by night and the cloud by day leading the people of Israel, declaring to all the world, "These are My people," so belief in the Trinity has since the days of the Apostles, shone above the true Messianic Community as she journeyed through the years. Purity and power have followed this faith. Under this banner have gone forth Jewish apostles and prophets, pastors and teachers, martyrs and songwriters, reformers and evangelists. God's approval and blessing has rested on their lives and labors. However they may have differed on minor matters, the knowledge of the Trinity bound them together. But error, heresy, apostasy and destruction have come to those who deny this Biblical truth. The mystery of the Holy Trinity. Understand it? Never! So humble your limited, finite human understanding, become like a child and simply believe what God has revealed in His Holy Scriptures about His Three-In-Oneness.

[I am indebted to The Knowledge of the Holy by A.W. Tozer, and Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum for much of this article]



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Interesting article about the Holy Trinity!
1 posted on 06/10/2003 2:31:08 PM PDT by Salvation
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To: *Catholic_list; father_elijah; nickcarraway; SMEDLEYBUTLER; Siobhan; Lady In Blue; attagirl; ...
Catholic Discussion Ping!

Please notify me via Freepmail if you would like to be added to or removed from the Catholic Discussion Ping list.

Trinity Ping!

2 posted on 06/10/2003 2:33:36 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation
BTTT
3 posted on 06/10/2003 2:36:06 PM PDT by TotusTuus (Ordinary Time: The season of our vocation in the world)
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To: Salvation
read later
4 posted on 06/10/2003 2:57:30 PM PDT by LiteKeeper
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To: Salvation; Japedo
Can you ping your friends please.
5 posted on 06/10/2003 3:19:49 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation
The apostles looked forward to the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Messiah Yeshua (Titus 2:13). These Jewish apostles are in perfect harmony with the prophet Isaiah, who wrote that the Messiah will be the son that is born to us and "El Gibor," the "Mighty God" (Isaiah 9:6-7).

Great article! Thank you for posting it, Salvation.

From Marty Barrack's Second Exodus site:

Jesus, all His apostles, three of the four evangelists, and many of the disciples, had been Jewish. Since Jewish law provides that a child born to a Jewish mother remains a Jew all his life, the early Christians considered themselves completed Jews (because the messianic prophecies had been fulfilled) and continued to pray in the synagogues. After the Temple fell, more Jews converted to Christianity. The Pharisee rabbis, seeing Judaism become increasingly Christian, resolved to purge it. About 80 A.D. Rabbi Gamaliel, then head of the house of study at Jamnia, inserted into the Shemone Esre prayer the Birkat ha minim (Benediction of the Minim.) It reads:

May apostates have no hope and the kingdom of impertinence be uprooted in our day. May the Nozrim and Minim disappear in the twinkling of an eye. May they be removed from the book of the living and not be inscribed among the just. Bless you, Lord, you who cast down the proud.

The Jewish converts, hearing themselves cursed into eternal fire, withdrew from the synagogues and continued with Holy Mass as their primary worship.

 

6 posted on 06/10/2003 3:38:27 PM PDT by NYer (Laudate Dominum)
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To: NYer
Jews for Jesus
7 posted on 06/10/2003 3:44:06 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: NYer
SO: are we Nozrim or Minim??
8 posted on 06/10/2003 3:53:51 PM PDT by ninenot (Joe McCarthy was RIGHT, but Drank Too Much)
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To: Salvation
Association of Hebrew Catholics

9 posted on 06/10/2003 3:54:05 PM PDT by NYer (Laudate Dominum)
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To: Salvation
B'shem haAv, v'haBen, v'Ruach haKodesh, Elohim echod. Amen.

In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, one God. Amen.

Another good site to visit:
The Association of Hebrew Catholics

10 posted on 06/10/2003 4:04:17 PM PDT by Dajjal
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To: NYer
Ha! Beat me to it!
11 posted on 06/10/2003 4:05:07 PM PDT by Dajjal
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To: Dajjal; Salvation
B'shem haAv, v'haBen, v'Ruach haKodesh, Elohim echod. Amen.

The Prayer To Our Father
(in the original Aramaic)

Abwûn
"Oh Thou, from whom the breath of life comes,

d'bwaschmâja
who fills all realms of sound, light and vibration.

Nethkâdasch schmach
May Your light be experienced in my utmost holiest.

Têtê malkuthach.
Your Heavenly Domain approaches.

Nehwê tzevjânach aikâna d'bwaschmâja af b'arha.
Let Your will come true - in the universe (all that vibrates)
just as on earth (that is material and dense).

Hawvlân lachma d'sûnkanân jaomâna.
Give us bread (understanding, assistance) for our daily need,

Waschboklân chaubên wachtahên aikâna
daf chnân schwoken l'chaijabên.

detach the ropes of faults that bind us, (Karma)
like we let go the guilt of others.

Wela tachlân l'nesjuna
Let us not be lost in superficial things (materialism, common temptations),

ela patzân min bischa.
but let us be freed from that what keeps us off from our true purpose.

Metol dilachie malkutha wahaila wateschbuchta l'ahlâm almîn.
From You comes the all-working will, the lively strength to act,
the song that beautifies all and renews itself from age to age.

Amên.
Sealed in trust, faith and truth.
(I confirm with my entire being)


12 posted on 06/10/2003 4:12:51 PM PDT by NYer (Laudate Dominum)
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To: Salvation; JesseShurun
Can you ping your friends, too!
13 posted on 06/10/2003 5:05:11 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: NYer
Beautiful!
14 posted on 06/10/2003 5:06:16 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation
Good article. Thanks for the ping.
15 posted on 06/10/2003 5:17:33 PM PDT by Bigg Red (Bush/Cheney in '04 and Tommy Daschole out the door)
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To: Salvation
God is ONE. Not that difficult really. Just as you are one. You can have different facets, yet you are ONE.

One light shining through a prism, creates MANY colors, but their source is from the ONE light.

16 posted on 06/10/2003 5:26:21 PM PDT by ET(end tyranny) (Deut. 32:37 -- And he shall say, Where are their gods, their rock in whom they trusted,)
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To: ET(end tyranny); Dajjal; Salvation; drstevej
God is ONE.

The following is also from Marty Barrack's web site, Second Exodus and most interesting. Who knew?

Liturgy

We find our Jewish heritage in the church as well. The priest's vestments at Mass have ancient origins. His outer garment, the chasuble, a large cone-shaped cloth with a hole for the head, was often worn in Palestine during the Greek and Roman occupations. Its beauty and adornments go all the way back to Aaron. God had told Moses, Ex 28:2, 4 "You shall make holy garments for Aaron your brother, for glory and for beauty … These are the garments which they shall make: a breastpiece, an ephod, a robe, a coat of checker work, a turban, and a girdle; they shall make holy garments for Aaron your brother and his sons to serve Me as priests. They shall receive gold, blue and purple and scarlet stuff, and fine twined linen." Ex 39:1 "Of the blue and purple and scarlet stuff they made finely wrought garments, for ministering in the holy place; they made the holy garments for Aaron, as the Lord had commanded Moses."

Every Catholic church has a tabernacle, where lives the Word Made Flesh. In the synagogues, the tabernacle holds the Word of God in ancient Torah scrolls. Beside the Catholic tabernacle, and beside the synagogue tabernacle, is a candle. Both go back to the time of Moses. Ex 40:35 "The glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle … For throughout all their journeys the cloud of the LORD was upon the tabernacle by day, and fire was in it by night, in the sight of all the house of Israel." Today we still see that fire, now a steady candle, and know as then that God is inside.

That blood-red tabernacle candle, reminding us that Jesus who died to redeem us is present, reminds Jews as well of the yahrzeit or memorial candles they light each year to remember the departed.

As the Mass begins, the priest processes down the center aisle as rabbis from time immemorial have also processed. Our entrance antiphon continues an ancient Jewish tradition of singing from one of the 150 psalms.

When the priest arrives at the altar he kisses it. Altar is a Hebrew word that means, "place of sacrifice."

On solemn occasions, the priest or deacon will spread incense around the altar. The rising smoke symbolizes our prayers ascending heavenward in God's sight. Ps 141:2 "Let my prayer be counted as incense before Thee, and the lifting up of my hands as an evening sacrifice." The evening sacrifice, of course, was the Passover sacrifice, Ex 12:6 when every Jewish family was instructed to sacrifice a paschal lamb in the evening twilight.

The priest's greeting, "The Lord be with you" comes from the Book of Ruth. 2:4 "Boaz came from Bethlehem; and he said to the reapers, 'The Lord be with you.'"

The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass uses three words in their original Hebrew. Amen comes from the Hebrew word emunah, faith, and means, "Yes, it's true!" Alleluia means "Praise God!" Hosanna means "God saves!" These three words remind us at every Mass of our Jewish origins.

During our Shepherd's time, synagogue worship consisted of prayers, psalms, and Torah readings. The Torah readings were based on a three-year cycle, starting on the Sabbath after the Feast of Tabernacles and reading a portion each week until the end three years later on the last day of the same feast. In that way the entire Torah was read aloud to be sure every Jew was exposed to it. Holy Mother Church continues the Jewish tradition with Sunday Gospel readings on a three year cycle. Year A relies on Matthew's Gospel, Year B on Mark's, and Year C on Luke's Gospel. These readings cover over 7,000 verses, including nearly all of the New Testament, to help us know our sacred Scripture.

The deacon's, or priest's, homily continues the Jewish synagogue tradition that the rabbi offer a sermon. In the old villages, the rabbi was often the only educated man in town. While everyone was gathered together it was a good opportunity for a little teaching. In the church as in the synagogue, the idea is to explain to this particular congregation the Word of God that has just been proclaimed.

The ancient Jews brought offerings to their priests for sacrifice. Lv 7:29 "He that offers the sacrifice of his peace offerings to the Lord shall bring his offering … The priest shall burn the fat on the altar, but the breast shall be for Aaron and his sons." The early Christians continued this tradition by bringing up gifts of food as thank offerings in a procession very much like the one we have today.

Jews for thousands of years have prayed over bread, "Blessed are you, Lord our God, king of the universe, Who brings forth bread from the earth." As he begins the Preparation of the Gifts, the priest prays: "Blessed are you, Lord, God of all creation. Through your goodness we have this bread to offer, which earth has given and human hands have made. It will become for us the bread of life." Jews have prayed over wine for thousands of years and still do today. "Blessed are you, Lord our God, king of the universe, who creates the fruit of the vine." The priest prepares the wine for consecration by saying, "Blessed are you, Lord, God of all creation. Through your goodness we have this wine to offer, fruit of the vine and work of human hands. It will become our spiritual drink."

After the priest says, "Lord God, we ask you to receive us and be pleased with the sacrifice we offer you with humble and contrite hearts," he washes his hands, continuing the Jewish tradition, Ps 26:6 "I wash my hands in innocence, and go about thy altar, O Lord."

Morning synagogue prayer always includes the Kedushah. Its first part comes from Isaiah's vision of the seraphim singing joyfully, 6:3 "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts! The whole earth is full of His glory!" The second is from Psalm 118, 26 "Blessed is He who enters in the name of the Lord." Our Sanctus comes directly from the Kedushah: "Holy, holy, holy Lord, God of power and might. Heaven and earth are full of your glory. Hosanna in the highest. Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord, Hosanna in the highest."

Jews end every prayer service with the Kaddish as a proclamation of God's greatness. It begins: "Raise high and glorify the name of God. Throughout the world He created by His will. May He build a kingdom in your life, during your days, and during the life of all the House of Israel. Soon, and in a time close at hand." We begin our Communion Rite with a very similar prayer: "Our Father, who art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name; Thy kingdom come; Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread; and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us; and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil."

 

17 posted on 06/10/2003 6:09:02 PM PDT by NYer (Laudate Dominum)
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To: ET(end tyranny)
**One light shining through a prism, creates MANY colors, but their source is from the ONE light.**

What a great analogy! I will remember that one.3

Thanks.
18 posted on 06/10/2003 6:09:20 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Bigg Red
You're so welcome! Glad you enjoyed it.

Not many people are aware of the Old Testment references cited.
19 posted on 06/10/2003 6:10:10 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: NYer
#17 is full outstanding references. Time to bookmark this thread!
20 posted on 06/10/2003 6:12:12 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation; NYer
Strange that the author should have omitted the OT's most explicit revelation of thr Trinity: when the Lord appeared to Abraham at the oak of Mamre, simultaneously both One and Three:

"Then the LORD appeared to him by the terebinth trees of Mamre, as he was sitting in the tent door in the heat of the day. So he lifted his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were standing by him; and when he saw [them,] he ran from the tent door to meet them, and bowed himself to the ground, and said, "My Lord, if I have now found favor in Your sight, do not pass on by Your servant. "Please let a little water be brought, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree. "And I will bring a morsel of bread, that you may refresh your hearts. After that you may pass by, inasmuch as you have come to your servant." They said, "Do as you have said." So Abraham hurried into the tent to Sarah and said, "Quickly, make ready three measures of fine meal; knead [it] and make cakes." And Abraham ran to the herd, took a tender and good calf, gave [it] to a young man, and he hastened to prepare it. So he took butter and milk and the calf which he had prepared, and set [it] before them; and he stood by them under the tree as they ate. Then they said to him, "Where [is] Sarah your wife?" So he said, "Here, in the tent." And He said, "I will certainly return to you according to the time of life, and behold, Sarah your wife shall have a son." (Sarah was listening in the tent door which [was] behind him.) Now Abraham and Sarah were old, well advanced in age; [and] Sarah had passed the age of childbearing. Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, "After I have grown old, shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?" And the LORD said to Abraham, "Why did Sarah laugh, saying, 'Shall I surely bear [a child,] since I am old?' "Is anything too hard for the LORD? At the appointed time I will return to you, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son." But Sarah denied [it,] saying, "I did not laugh," for she was afraid. And He said, "No, but you did laugh!" Then the men rose from there and looked toward Sodom, and Abraham went with them to send them on the way. And the LORD said, "Shall I hide from Abraham what I am doing, "since Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him? "For I have known him, in order that he may command his children and his household after him, that they keep the way of the LORD, to do righteousness and justice, that the LORD may bring to Abraham what He has spoken to him." And the LORD said, "Because the outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grave, "I will go down now and see whether they have done altogether according to the outcry against it that has come to Me; and if not, I will know." Then the men turned away from there and went toward Sodom, but Abraham still stood before the LORD. And Abraham came near and said, "Would You also destroy the righteous with the wicked? "Suppose there were fifty righteous within the city; would You also destroy the place and not spare [it] for the fifty righteous that were in it? "Far be it from You to do such a thing as this, to slay the righteous with the wicked, so that the righteous should be as the wicked; far be it from You! Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?" So the LORD said, "If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes." Then Abraham answered and said, "Indeed now, I who [am but] dust and ashes have taken it upon myself to speak to the Lord: "Suppose there were five less than the fifty righteous; would You destroy all of the city for [lack of] five?" So He said, "If I find there forty-five, I will not destroy [it."] And he spoke to Him yet again and said, "Suppose there should be forty found there?" So He said, "I will not do [it] for the sake of forty." Then he said, "Let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak: Suppose thirty shoul be found there?" So He said, "I will not do [it] if I find thirty there." And he said, "Indeed now, I have taken it upon myself to speak to the Lord: Suppose twenty should be found there?" So He said, "I will not destroy [it] for the sake of twenty." 32 Then he said, "Let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak but once more: Suppose ten should be found there?" And He said, "I will not destroy [it] for the sake of ten." So the LORD went His way as soon as He had finished speaking with Abraham; and Abraham returned to his place."

21 posted on 06/10/2003 9:01:47 PM PDT by Romulus
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To: Salvation; ET(end tyranny)
The Trinity was first hinted at in the Tenach (the Hebrew Scriptures): In the first verse of the Jewish Bible, God is revealed as a unity with a plurality.

This article is riddled with so many errors it is hard to even know where to begin. The arguments presented here are not new. On the contrary, they are circulated almost verbatim among various trinitarian sites. They betray an appalling dearth of understanding of Judaism, the Hebrew scriptures, and the Hebrew language. This is the sort of stuff that could only be persuasive to those who are already convinced.

I frankly am weary of pointing out the same errors over and over again. For those who are interested in the truth, I recommend Jews for Judaism, Outreach Judaism, and the numerous other counter-missionary websites which have sprung up to refute this sort of thing.

22 posted on 06/10/2003 9:31:38 PM PDT by malakhi
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To: malakhi
So how would you convince us otherwise?

23 posted on 06/10/2003 11:29:03 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: NYer
That's not in the original Aramaic. It is, at best, a retranslation from Greek back to Aramaic by someone with a serious New Age ax to grind.
24 posted on 06/10/2003 11:44:27 PM PDT by A.J.Armitage (Christ died for the ungodly.)
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To: dansangel
((((ping))))
25 posted on 06/11/2003 4:34:20 AM PDT by .45MAN (If you don't like it here try and find a better country, Please!!)
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To: Salvation
A little bit off the topic, but somebody disputed the version of the Lord's Prayer in Aramaic posted here, so I went onto the net to see what I could find.

There sure do be a bunch of versions.

That sent me to the Bible (in English), and when I got to the end of the Lord's Prayer, I just kept reading because it was so wonderful.

I read until I got to something that bothers me.

There used to be more things that bothered me, but one by one they've been explained to me or I've otherwise come to understand them. This one, though, continues to bedevil me.

"10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come."

It's pretty clear that the disciples thought that Jesus would return during their lifetimes, and this looks like a promise to that effect.

Can anybody shed any light on this?
26 posted on 06/11/2003 5:34:47 AM PDT by dsc ("Holistic" is only part of a word.)
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To: Invincibly Ignorant
Ping!

Might be worth your read, Steven.

27 posted on 06/11/2003 5:59:39 AM PDT by al_c
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To: dsc
Can anybody shed any light on this?

The disciples did expect Christ to return "soon". It was St. Peter who reminded them:

"But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slow about his promise as some count slowness, but is forbearing toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. . . . Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of persons ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be kindled and dissolved, and the elements will melt with fire! But according to his promise we wait for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. Therefore, beloved, since you wait for these, be zealous to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace"
(2 Pet. 3:8–14).

28 posted on 06/11/2003 6:12:23 AM PDT by NYer (Laudate Dominum)
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To: NYer
Yes, but His words quoted above seem to be a promise to the effect that, "I'll be back before you even have time to visit every town in Israel." That would seem to mean he was counting time on a human scale.
29 posted on 06/11/2003 7:23:38 AM PDT by dsc
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To: Salvation
So how would you convince us otherwise?

Would you believe me if I posted the same arguments that I've posted many times before?

Don't take my word for it. You could send this article to an orthodox rabbi and ask for his opinion.

30 posted on 06/11/2003 8:20:22 AM PDT by malakhi
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To: dsc
That would seem to mean he was counting time on a human scale.

From the New American Bible ... perhaps this will explain it.

11 [23] Before the Son of Man comes: since the coming of the Son of Man at the end of the age had not taken place when this gospel was written, much less during the mission of the Twelve during Jesus' ministry, Matthew cannot have meant the coming to refer to the parousia. It is difficult to know what he understood it to be: perhaps the "proleptic parousia" of Matthew 28:16-20, or the destruction of the temple in A.D. 70, viewed as a coming of Jesus in judgment on unbelieving Israel.

31 posted on 06/11/2003 8:58:07 AM PDT by NYer (Laudate Dominum)
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To: dsc
He came right back--on the Day of Pentacost...
32 posted on 06/11/2003 9:48:46 AM PDT by Ff--150 (100-Fold Return)
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To: Salvation
The Holy Trinity, as I "understand" within limited human capacity:

Think of water. Water has three phases: vapor (gas), liquid, and solid (ice). All three phases are of one substance--the same molecule, which is H2O; however, each phase acts with distinctive properties, and each may exist apart from the others, or all at once in the same space and time. Oneness in substance, uniqness in character.

This is how I resolved the mystery in my very limited capacity as a creature of God.
33 posted on 06/11/2003 6:28:01 PM PDT by jt8d (War is better than terrorism.)
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To: jt8d
Your example of water
ice
vapor
liquid

is also a very good one.
34 posted on 06/11/2003 6:31:17 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation

35 posted on 06/11/2003 7:53:19 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: MarMema
Beautiful, thank you!
36 posted on 06/11/2003 9:23:16 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: NYer
Perhaps it's just over my head, but I don't see how that explains the passage I posted.
37 posted on 06/12/2003 12:30:07 AM PDT by dsc
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To: Ff--150
"He came right back--on the Day of Pentacost..."

I don't think that quite answers my problem. It was the Holy Ghost, the third person of the Trinity, that came on Pentecost.
38 posted on 06/12/2003 12:31:33 AM PDT by dsc
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To: Salvation
Some Problems With Christ As Messiah
39 posted on 06/12/2003 8:42:26 AM PDT by onedoug
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To: dsc
D'oh! Pentecost, not Pentacost! :-(

You're on the right track, FReeper. However, reading the Bible and translating from the actual Greek and Hebrew will tend to isolate one from other, uh, Christians. To get along, ya gotta go along...

40 posted on 06/12/2003 8:46:52 AM PDT by Ff--150 (100-Fold Return)
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To: dsc
Your #26: [Matthew] "10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come." It's pretty clear that the disciples thought that Jesus would return during their lifetimes, and this looks like a promise to that effect. Can anybody shed any light on this?

I don't think anyone can show that Jesus is definitely referring to His second coming here. This is not the Divine Commission of Matthew 28 -- "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations" -- just before His ascension into heaven. This is sending the apostles on an early mission to the house of Israel only, not to the Gentiles nor to the Samaritans (see verses 5-6). They would return while He was yet in mortality.

I think, therefore, that "the Son of man be come" refers to a future event in His mortal life such as His coming to Jerusalem on the back of a donkey (on the first Palm Sunday).

We will have to ask Jesus when we see Him to know for sure what He meant. ;-) May He come quickly!

41 posted on 06/14/2003 12:28:41 AM PDT by White Mountain
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To: White Mountain
"I think, therefore, that "the Son of man be come" refers to a future event in His mortal life such as His coming to Jerusalem on the back of a donkey (on the first Palm Sunday)."

Thank you very much. It seems a little vague, but your reading makes as much sense as the other, in context.
42 posted on 06/14/2003 5:28:59 AM PDT by dsc
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To: XeniaSt
bump for study
43 posted on 06/14/2003 9:59:54 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (chuck <truth@YeshuaHaMashiach>)
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To: malakhi; Salvation; ET(end tyranny)
malakhi;Salvation; ET(end tyranny)

S>The Trinity was first hinted at in the Tenach (the Hebrew Scriptures): In the first verse of the Jewish Bible, God is revealed as a unity with a plurality.
m>This article is riddled with so many errors it is hard to even know where to begin. The arguments presented here are not new. On the contrary, they are circulated almost verbatim among various trinitarian sites. They betray an appalling dearth of understanding of Judaism, the Hebrew scriptures, and the Hebrew language. This is the sort of stuff that could only be persuasive to those who are already convinced.
I frankly am weary of pointing out the same errors over and over again. For those who are interested in the truth, I recommend Jews for Judaism, Outreach Judaism, and the numerous other counter-missionary websites which have sprung up to refute this sort of thing.

22 posted on 06/10/2003 10:31 PM MDT by malakhi


Do not let ritual lead you away from righteousness( Hosea 6:6 & Matthew 9:13 )

HSN-4383 Stumbling-block GSN-4625

Le. 19:14 ??Do not curse the deaf or put a stumbling-block in front of
the blind, but fear your God. I am the LORD.

Ps. 56:11 in God I trust; I will not be afraid. What can man do to me?
Ps. 56:12 I am under vows to you, O God; I will present my thankofferings to you.
Ps. 56:13 For you have delivered me [Or my soul] from death and my
feet from stumbling, that I may walk before God in the light
of life. [Or the land of the living]

Ps. 116:8 For you, O LORD, have delivered my soul from death, my
eyes from tears, my feet from stumbling,

Ez. 3:20 ?Again, when a righteous man turns from his righteousness
and does evil, and I put a stumbling-block before him, he will
die. Since you did not warn him, he will die for his sin. The
righteous things he did will not be remembered, and I will
hold you accountable for his blood.
Ez. 3:21 But if you do warn the righteous man not to sin and he does
not sin, he will surely live because he took warning, and you
will have saved yourself.?
Ez. 3:22 The hand of the LORD was upon me there, and he said to
me, ?Get up and go out to the plain, and there I will speak to
you.?

Ez. 14:2 Then the word of the LORD came to me:
Ez. 14:3 ?Son of man, these men have set up idols in their hearts and
put wicked stumbling-blocks before their faces. Should I let
them enquire of me at all?
Ez. 14:4 Therefore speak to them and tell them, ?This is what the
Sovereign LORD says: When any Israelite sets up idols in his
heart and puts a wicked stumbling-block before his face and
then goes to a prophet, I the LORD will answer him myself in
keeping with his great idolatry.
Ez. 14:5 I will do this to recapture the hearts of the people of Israel,
who have all deserted me for their idols.?
Ez. 14:6 ?Therefore say to the house of Israel, ?This is what the
Sovereign LORD says: Repent! Turn from your idols and
renounce all your detestable practices!

Ez. 14:7 ??When any Israelite or any alien living in Israel separates
himself from me and sets up idols in his heart and puts a
wicked stumbling-block before his face and then goes to a
prophet to enquire of me, I the LORD will answer him
myself.
Ez. 14:8 I will set my face against that man and make him an example
and a byword. I will cut him off from my people. Then you
will know that I am the LORD.


Mt. 16:22 Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. ?Never,
Lord!? he said. ?This shall never happen to you!?
Mt. 16:23 Jesus turned and said to Peter,
?Get behind me, Satan! You
are a stumbling-block to me; you do not have in mind the
things of God, but the things of men.?

Mt. 16:24 Then Jesus said to his disciples,
?If anyone would come after
me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.

Mt. 16:25
For whoever wants to save his life [The Greek word means
either life or soul; also in verse 26.] will lose it, but whoever
loses his life for me will find it.

Ro. 9:31 but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it.
Ro. 9:32 Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it
were by works. They stumbled over the ?stumbling-stone?.
Ro. 9:33 As it is written: ?See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to
stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who
trusts in him will never be put to shame.? [Isaiah 8:14; 28:16]

Ro. 11:9 And David says: ?May their table become a snare and a trap,
a stumbling-block and a retribution for them.
Ro. 11:10 May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see, and their
backs be bent for ever.? [Psalm 69:22,23]
Ro. 11:11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery?
Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation
has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious.
Ro. 11:12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and
their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their fulness bring!

Ro. 14:12 So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.
Ro. 14:13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another.
Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling-block
or obstacle in your brother's way.

1Co. 1:22 Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom,
1Co. 1:23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling-block to Jews and
foolishness to Gentiles,
1Co. 1:24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks,
Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
1Co. 1:25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and
the weakness of God is stronger than manes strength.

1Co. 8:8 But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if
we do not eat, and no better if we do.
1Co. 8:9 Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does
not become a stumbling-block to the weak.
1Co. 8:10 For if anyone with a weak conscience sees you who have this
knowledge eating in an idol's temple, wont he be
emboldened to eat what has been sacrificed to idols?

2Co. 6:1 As God's fellow-workers we urge you not to receive God's grace in vain.
2Co. 6:2 For he says, ?In the time of my favour I heard you, and in the
day of salvation I helped you.? [Isaiah 49:8] I tell you, now is
the time of God's favour, now is the day of salvation.
2Co. 6:3 We put no stumbling-block in anyone's path, so that our
ministry will not be discredited

Praise His Holy Name

chuck <truth@YeshuaHaMashiach>

44 posted on 06/14/2003 11:17:13 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (chuck <truth@YeshuaHaMashiach>)
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To: XeniaSt
Solemnity of the Most Holy Trinity, June 15, 2003.
45 posted on 06/14/2003 10:54:43 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation

BTTT for Most Holy Trinity Sunday!


46 posted on 05/21/2005 9:07:54 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: ninenot

Nozrim (pronounced notsREEM with a long 'o') is the plural of Nozri -- lit. Nazarene, still the modern Hebrew word for Christian. "And minim" here seems to be "and the like," but I'm open to correction.


47 posted on 05/21/2005 10:08:02 AM PDT by maryz
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To: NYer; BlackElk

Interesting.

The "Song" concept is echoed in the Davidic/Jesus analogies, the "Singers."

In fact, an old Austrian hymnal (c. 1625) shows David and the Pope, with a cithara (zither) and cross, on the cartouche. This representation is also found in the North Rose Window at Chartres Cathedral. (!)

Thus the connection between cross and cithara--cult and culture. Further note the oft-repeated connection between David and Melchisidek--the Singer and Priest...

JPII mentioned that 'cult' and 'culture' are absolutely inseparable


48 posted on 05/21/2005 10:52:39 AM PDT by ninenot (Minister of Membership, Tomas Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: NYer; Agrarian; Kolokotronis

Interesting stuff here.


49 posted on 05/21/2005 10:55:48 AM PDT by ninenot (Minister of Membership, Tomas Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: Desdemona; AnAmericanMother

Interesting post and thread.


50 posted on 05/21/2005 11:12:34 AM PDT by ninenot (Minister of Membership, Tomas Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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