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He's An Only Child -- A response to a Protestant argument against Mary's perpetual virginity
Envoy Magazine ^ | Ronald K. Tacelli, S.J.

Posted on 06/23/2003 2:36:07 PM PDT by Patrick Madrid

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1 posted on 06/23/2003 2:36:08 PM PDT by Patrick Madrid
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To: Patrick Madrid
As I'm sure some folks will be interested in his background, Fr. Ron Tacelli's curiculum vitae is posted at the Boston College website here: http://fmwww.bc.edu/pl/fac/tacelli.cv.html.
He's an *orthodox* young Jesuit, a friend, and very keen on Catholic apologetics. In his spare time he's a professor of philosophy at Boston College.
2 posted on 06/23/2003 2:45:59 PM PDT by Patrick Madrid
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To: Polycarp; ultima ratio; Siobhan; NYer; Salvation; Aquinasfan; Lady In Blue; fatima
Patrick Madrid (the new FReeper) PING!
3 posted on 06/23/2003 2:46:54 PM PDT by Pyro7480 (+ Vive Jesus! (Live Jesus!) +)
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Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

To: sandyeggo
Time to get some popcorn...
5 posted on 06/23/2003 2:53:35 PM PDT by B Knotts
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To: Patrick Madrid
You are really diving into it. I am going to enjoy the next week or so. Loved the Frances de Sales article by the way, truly inspiring. My initial reaction was the standard one your article addresses. Thanks a lot. God Bless
6 posted on 06/23/2003 2:54:58 PM PDT by StAthanasiustheGreat (Vocatus Atque Non Vocatus Deus Aderit)
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To: NWU Army ROTC
Thanks for the kind words, NWU.
7 posted on 06/23/2003 2:58:14 PM PDT by Patrick Madrid
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To: Patrick Madrid
Patrick!

Now you've gone and done it -- I'll be subscribing to "Envoy" this week. I'm sure it will be a nice addition to my subscriptions to "Columbia" and "The Wanderer".

Welcome aboard.



8 posted on 06/23/2003 2:58:55 PM PDT by el_chupacabra (AMDG)
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To: Patrick Madrid
Very inciteful, excellent response to a Protestant argument and good use of both scripture and literary examples to disprove their contention. Must admit I am a little shocked to see that the author is a Jesuit. I attended a Jesuit High School and know many excellent Jesuits, the overall theology of the Jesuits today is at times suspect (possible understatement). God Bless
9 posted on 06/23/2003 3:00:11 PM PDT by StAthanasiustheGreat (Vocatus Atque Non Vocatus Deus Aderit)
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To: Patrick Madrid; drstevej; CCWoody; Calvinist_Dark_Lord
Something's been bugging me about this Perpetual Virginity thing, and I finally think I put my finger on the crus of the issue. Thus, I have a stupid question.:

Why was it neccessary for Mary to remain a virgin after the birth of Jesus? Is there something inherently less-than-Godly in becoming one flesh with a lawful spouse, i.e. sexuality is detrimental to righteousness?

10 posted on 06/23/2003 3:00:17 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (Athanasius contra mundum!)
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To: el_chupacabra
Let me recommend New Oxford Review. Excellent monthly (11 issues, July and August are condensed), very conservative, orginially Anglo-Catholic and it crossed the line to Orthodox Catholic (ala Newman) a couple of years back. Excellent monthly, and Crisis hates it, so it has to be good.
11 posted on 06/23/2003 3:01:35 PM PDT by StAthanasiustheGreat (Vocatus Atque Non Vocatus Deus Aderit)
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To: Patrick Madrid
Another Example of the Nonsensical nature of the "Trinity"

There are LOTS of examples showing how ridiculous and unscriptural the doctrine of a "God in the flesh" Messiah is. This is just one brief example among the many that could have been chosen. I invite you to read through my New Testament commentary proofs AGAINST the Trinity to find more.

Mt 12:32

32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. Parallel passages Mark 3:28-30 Luke 12:10

Mark 3:28-30 - 28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: 29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: 30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

Luke 12:10 - 10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven. If Yahshua and YHVH (God) are one in the same, why is speaking against Yahshua (Son of man) something for which one can be forgiven but speaking against the Holy Spirit (God, since "God is a Spirit" - John 4:24) never forgivable?

This is yet another case of a clear distinction shown between the "son of man" (Yahshua) and God. The weakness of the Trinity argument once again is exposed since, by saying Yahshua is God Christian pastors would have us believe that if we blaspheme God it is forgivable, but if we blaspheme God it is not forgivable. (DUH?!?!) Yes. Rememeber, Christian and counterfeit Messianic leaders say Yahshua IS God; therefore, the contradiction in the sentence you just read IS what they are attemping to have you accept! You read the sentence correctly, and the apparent mistake in the sentence is actually one of numerous illustrations that highlights the problems of the Trinity position. The sentence is as senseless as any doctrine that promotes Yahshua is God. Like all such doctrines, the sentence defies common sense.

What child would understand a parent saying, "If you talk back to me you are not going to get a spanking, but if you talk back to me you are going to get a spanking." (DUH?!?!) I think such odd parental instruction, if it became the norm, could result in a somewhat confused child. Similarly, most Christians have become somewhat confused children from listening to their Trinitarian theologian parents' twisted attempts to prove the doctrine that Messiah is God using "mystery", word games (ie. Hebrew - "echad" and "Elohim") and other similarly desperate means that all defy basic common sense and clear meaning of Scripture. The result is a "child" (Christians and/or counterfeit Messianics) that has lost the ability to discern and understand simple, direct, common sense verses of Scripture.

The Trinitarians may try to explain away this glaring contradiction in their argument by somehow trying to show how the different aspects of the Son and the Father's divine nature allows this. Well, would they please show me how we can blaspheme any aspect of YHVH? Do they have Scripture that permits us to blaspheme YHVH at all? Absurd. The Trinity argument, when placed along side Scripture, is shown to be absurd.

Harsh as it may sound, time after time the Trinity is shown to be an amazing effort at futility and an unsurpassed example of a lack of BASIC common sense; however, the most remarkable aspect of it is that so many people accept it, despite that fact they have a Bible, which if they truly read, proves the Trinity to be a false teaching!

12 posted on 06/23/2003 3:04:13 PM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Invincibly Ignorant
Harsh as it may sound, time after time the Trinity is shown to be an amazing effort at futility and an unsurpassed example of a lack of BASIC common sense; however, the most remarkable aspect of it is that so many people accept it, despite that fact they have a Bible, which if they truly read, proves the Trinity to be a false teaching!

Wow. How do you reconcile the early Church teaching the Trinity as a doctrine? Perhaps it was because the Bible wasn't yet formally placed into canons that they forgot to read the thing.

13 posted on 06/23/2003 3:08:52 PM PDT by jrherreid
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To: Invincibly Ignorant
I am a Catholic, a disciple of Jesus Christ, the Messiah. U believe with all my heart and strenth in the Blessed Trinity, One God in Three Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

If you'd like to read a book that may prove to be helpful to you in understanding why I and hundreds of millions of other Christians firmly believe in the Trinity, please read either or both of these books by Frank Sheed or the third book I'll mention, by Ronald Tacelli, SJ, and Peter Kreeft:

1) Theology and Sanity, Frank Sheed (Ignatius Press)
2) Theology for Beginners, Frank Sheed (Servant Press)
3) A Handbook of Christian Apologetics, Tacelli & Kreefy (InterVarsity Press)

The first two especially will help! God bless you.
14 posted on 06/23/2003 3:09:18 PM PDT by Patrick Madrid
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To: Patrick Madrid
Oh. I forgot to mention. Now that the trinity is disproven, this stuff about Mary's womb being compared to the "holy of holies" seems a bit silly.
15 posted on 06/23/2003 3:10:17 PM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: NWU Army ROTC
Let me recommend New Oxford Review

NWU! You are going to get me in BIG trouble with my family's finance committee (namely, my wife)!

16 posted on 06/23/2003 3:12:01 PM PDT by el_chupacabra (AMDG)
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To: Invincibly Ignorant
Read the books please, and then let us know what you think.
17 posted on 06/23/2003 3:12:11 PM PDT by Patrick Madrid
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To: Invincibly Ignorant
Now that the trinity is disproven...

Now what am I gonna do? Have you disproven anything else I should know about?

18 posted on 06/23/2003 3:14:33 PM PDT by jrherreid
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To: Patrick Madrid
I am a Catholic, a disciple of Jesus Christ, the Messiah. U believe with all my heart and strenth in the Blessed Trinity, One God in Three Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

I'm believer in the Messiah, a man sent by God his people to redeem. I believe with all my heart "Hear O' Israel, the Lord our God is ONE".

If you'd like to read a book that may prove helpful to you in understanding why I and a few more have left the idolatrous "Mother of all Harlots" Catholic Religion (Where wide is the road that leads to destruction) please read either one of these books written by Anthony F. Buzzard and Tom Harpur.

1) The Doctrine of the Trinity, Christianity's Self-Inflicted Wound by Anthony F. Buzzarrd and Charles F. Hunting.

2) For Christ's Sake by Tom Harpur.

Both of these should help you tremendously.

Thank you for your suggestions. Hope you don't mind mine. May Yeshua bless.

19 posted on 06/23/2003 3:22:36 PM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Invincibly Ignorant
Who gives a crap what a heretic thinks? Your opinion matters about as much as a Hindu's or a Jain's on the subject.
20 posted on 06/23/2003 3:22:40 PM PDT by Conservative til I die (They say anti-Catholicism is the thinking man's anti-Semitism; that's an insult to thinking men)
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