Church Musician Fired: Refused Vow of Chastity

Rockford Register-Star ^ | 6/25/02 | Edith Webster

[ninenot]

ROCKFORD — The music director at Rockford’s largest Catholic church had a choice: give up his gay partner of 10 years or lose his job.

When Bill Stein refused to take a vow of chastity Tuesday, he was fired from his position at Holy Family.

[ninenot]

Looks as though Rockford has it figured out, but you have to really dig into the article to find the substance: not only "Partnered," but wanting to ADOPT!!!

[Loyalist]

PING

[RosieCotton]

One of many problems with the article - it doesn't sound like the author understands what a vow is. There's a difference between leading a chaste life (which all of us should be doing, regardless of our state in life) and taking a vow.

If, as a Catholic, you aren't married (and these guys certainly aren't and never can be), you live a celibate life until you are, or try to. But no one forces you to take a vow!

[Antoninus]

“Everybody I talked to was shocked that someone with this much talent, who did so much for the church, would be pinpointed for his personal lifestyle.”

The Church ain't about "talent" sister. Sorry, but the homo-inclined have already done too much damage to the Church.

Either live according to Church teaching or get out.

[ventana]

The most disturbing thing is that these fellow parishoners would show any form of support for a homosexual couple, and, moreover, their intent to adopt a child. Breathtaking and shocking. V's wife

[Antoninus]

If, as a Catholic, you aren't married (and these guys certainly aren't and never can be), you live a celibate life until you are, or try to. But no one forces you to take a vow!

Exactly. It would have been a scandal if the church knew he was living an active sodomite lifestyle and kept him on. To teach one thing and then make exceptions based on "musical talent" would be sheer hypocrisy.

Good for Msgr. Kagan!

[RosieCotton]

The most disturbing thing is that these fellow parishoners would show any form of support for a homosexual couple, and, moreover, their intent to adopt a child.

No kidding.

The article is obviously biased, but it certainly doesn't sound like this guy has made any secret of his lifestyle. And people just patted him on the back and told him what a swell guy he was?

[JohnnyZ]

In a further development, the church will begin singing hymns at Mass rather than the customary show tunes.

[Antoninus]

If you're so inclined, send your words of encouragement to this parish at:

teresaatholyfamily@yahoo.com

This address is for Teresa Lanz, the Administrative Assistant for the parish. A whole list of other contacts may be found here:

Holy Family Parish Staff

[Hermann the Cherusker]

The incident is shameful, said Mary Zuba, a member of St. James Church on Second Street in Rockford and half of the first same-sex couple to adopt a nonrelated child in Illinois.

And I'm sure her pastor gives her communion every time this "family" comes to Church, without blinking an eye. For shame!

[Onelifetogive]

“I was honest. I walked out of the office without a job, but I had my dignity,”

A rump-rangering sort of dignity, that is!

[Desdemona]

A gay music director who doesn't have an ego...oh, wait, he wants "dignity" with his lifestyle.

Nevermind.

[B-Chan]

Chief Archangel Cast Out Over Refusal to Bow

Some agree with the decision to cast out Archangel who wouldn’t promise obedience; others don’t.

HEAVEN — The Bringer of Light at the Throne of God had a choice: give up his desire to be like God or lose his job.

When Archangel Lucifer Morningstar refused to bow before the Throne last eon, he was cast down from his position at the top of the Angelic Hierarchy. “I was honest. I walked out of Heaven without a job, but I had my dignity,” Lucifer said. “This shouldn’t happen to anybody. Maybe Michael and the rest of them have no problem with all that grovelling, but I am the most beautiful and powerful of all the Angels, and I refuse to bow down to anybody. Non serviam -- I will not serve."

[Desdemona]

LOL bump

[SMEDLEYBUTLER]

Monsignor David Kagan bump!

Bill Stein and his CINO supporters need to read the following and if they don't like it, leave the Church.

Chastity and homosexuality

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

[BlackElk]

Whoever Mary Zuba may be who is described as a member of St. James Parish in Rockford (the former cathedral about fifty years ago, and also described as half of trhe first same-sex couple to adopt a non-related child in Illinois, she may live to see the lack of wisdom in so shooting off her mouth in the local newspaper, known here as the Rockford Red Star, at least if she wants to continue playing make-believe Catholic in the newspapers in this diocese. We can hope.

[B Knotts]

I don't know why anyone who considers themselves Catholic would be the least bit puzzled by the idea that practicing homosexuals may not be employed by the Church. It's very clear, as you have shown, in the Catechism.

Do they think the Catechism is not binding?

[sinkspur]

The controversy over his homosexuality began three months ago,

Why didn't it begin five years ago?

Indeed, why was the guy even hired in the first place, if he had a partner?

It apparently was no secret to the parishioners that he was gay.

Is it just now embarrassing to the diocese that an openly gay man was a music director?

Is it the sin that is the problem, or the fact that he drew attention to himself with his adoption plans?

These are honest questions. Sounds like somebody was looking the other way until they got caught.

[sinkspur]

I don't know why anyone who considers themselves Catholic would be the least bit puzzled by the idea that practicing homosexuals may not be employed by the Church.

He was employed by the Church for five years and apparently made no secret of his partner.

[BlackElk]

I live in the vicinity of Rockford and sometimes attend the mercifully brief and conveniently timed NO Masses at Holy Family. This week, we learned that the pastor, Monsignor Thomas Bales who has personally expressed his displeasure with my eight-year-old kneeling to receive on the tongue, as do her siblings, was apparently on some health-related leave. Fr. Grady, a considerably younger priest of apparent orthodoxy was saying Mass and may have been dealing with the culture shock of being assigned to what has been a rather materialist Kumbaya congregation. He noted that there was no musical director and that we should encourage each other to sing (even though the only hymnals are full of the usual chalk on the blackboard modernist stuff).

Perhaps, Monsignor Bales can retire now and leave Fr. Grady and the quite saintly and orthodox Nigerian priest to, ummmm, counterreform Holy Family all the way back to Catholicism despite its naked warehouse architecture. I did notice on Sunday that what I believe to be the tabernacle despite its avante-garde style, was visible to everyone in the Church and I had not noticed that before Fr. Grady's arrival.

Regrettably, those who are terribly concerned about the beastly behavior of the CHURCH OF ROME towards Lance and Bruce and their ambitions to "adopt" would still be able to find a few friendly priests and pastors.

St. Edward's is also mentioned in the article. That parish has a very elderly Monsignor as pastor who ran diocesan schools 45 years ago and an absolutely wonderful young priest and they unfortunately allow an elderly and dottily liberal former pastor use of the premises to brag about his personal charities in homilies otherwise dedicated to berating the parishioners for insufficient attenmtion to his dead dreams of ecclesiastical revolution from within. The parishioners are too kind to tell him what they think.

[sinkspur]

Thanks for the explanation. Apparently, Bales hired this music director, and the interim pastor used the occasion of his absence to fire the guy.

[sitetest]

Dear sinkspur,

You're right to ask why he got to have his job for five years, assuming that it was known at the time he was hired that he was an active homosexual.

But whatever the reasons are for his being dismissed now, we ought to be grateful for his dismissal, anyway.


sitetest

[eastsider]

From writing that Stein was fired because he "refused to take a vow of chastity" (BS, Edith, and you know it, you freepin' looney tune) to quoting Stein using that buzzward of "gay" Catholics, "dignity," this is nothing but a dissident hit piece.

[B Knotts]

The interim pastor had an obligation to do so.

[Thorondir]

He wants dignity with his deathstyle.

These sodomites are hellbent on destroying the Church, and their apologists, whether ignorant or cognizant, are in perfect league with them.

They all need to be ruthlessly kicked out.

[BlackElk]

When this diocese finds them, they are history as ought to be the case. From what do you conclude that this guy made no secret of his perversions. When he and his "husband" sought to acquire someone else's child to play make-believe family, he outed himself.

Trust, since I have attended Masses at Holy Family (to meet the Sunday obligation and to do penance) as you have not, that nothing about the music there is so memorable as to make anyone other than the choir bother to become acquainted with Stein. Those who are complaining are the usual gang of Kumbaya chronic malcontented suspects who think that Holy Family should be Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood. It's the usual case of too much money and a vacuum where the common sense and the IQ points used to be. Wait until Fr., Grady mentions sin, hell or reverence. Then the used food will really hit the air-conditioning supply.

Ohhhhh, it was just soooooo terrible and all the weeping and the sniffles and the hugs, ohhhh the hugs, and Stein, so noble, so martyred, sniffling that he would get a job somewhere and that those who sniffle should keep whatever faith they might think they have. Stein expressed so generously his concern that their "faith" might be "shaken" by the diocese putting an end to the scandal. He kept his "dignity" if not his job. Was this a play on words? I don't think that any actual Catholic's faith would be shaken by common sense.

B-Chan: Thanks for reminding us (#14) that it is still possible to be Catholic in your diocese. You have hit the proverbial nail on the head.

This Stein fellow probably did not approach even Monsignor Bales for approval of his, ummmm, amorous relationship and the ambition of Stein and his husband to "share their love" with a child, whatever that may mean.

Of course, the music director at the local Unitarian Universalist whatever they have that poses as a church also shot her mouth off in support of Stein and in attacking the Church upon her discovery that Catholicism is not the church of the swinging single of whatever inclination or perversion.

In any event, Bishop Doran proves once again that a bishop CAN deal with these problems and do so effectively. For those kinder than I, the point ought to be made that the diocese loved Stein without liking or embracing his sins. He could keep his job, as Lucifer could have, if he made the standard acceptance of the obligation to sin no more and backed it up by waving a fond and permanent farewell to his, ummmm, partner. If he would refuse, as he did, then it is not love to say, "Hey, no big deal, I'm OK, you're OK", but rather it is the corrosive evil of low expectations.

[BlackElk]

Drawing public attention to himself as a "partnered" lavender queen trying to adopt a child while living off the Church's nickel has a name: the sin of scandal. You think this queen walked in off the street, filled out a job application, notified the diocese or parish that he had a "husband" and that they just sat back, kicked off their shoes and said: "Doesn't everyone?" You don't know us very well. This is Doran's turf and AmChurch he is not.

[ninenot]

Yeah--but the key phrase regarding your intelligent questions is "temporary Administrator"--Mgr. Kagan, who evidently had a mission to 'clean house.'

[BlackElk]

It would appear to have been a firing by the diocese. I am not certain but I believe that Bales is very ill. He is not all that old. I would suspect no older than 60. While he is not my particular cup of tea, he gave no obvious evidence of being troubled for whatever that is worth. Fr. Grady seems to be feeling his way around in this parish. He arrived late last week. He will want for nothing that the collection plate can purchase but he does have some challenge ahead. Holy Family is a Church which has bled off several families to St. Mary's Oratory in Rockford (the Tridentine Mass facility).

The Masses at Holy Family have been somnething of a mixed bag. The Nigerian priest may be one of the very best. He has an evident sense of the sacred, preaches memorably, says a very reverent Novus Ordo. Monsignor Bales is 6 or 7 on a scale of 10 as to reverence but the sermons are like Chinese food and do not stick to the ribs. I think Father Grady is trying to get used to the idea that he has the opportunity to ignore monetary concerns. He gives a good sermon and says a good Mass.

My reservations are about the seventy-ish man who is an "Extraordinary Minister of the Eucharist" and stands behind the Monsignor during Mass flashing peace signs at the congregation. [Hi, I'm Abby Hoffman, and, if you don't strategize, I might be serving you the Wafer], and the female lector who raises first one arm and then the other on alternating petition prayers, emulating a Saturday Night Fever dance maneuver of John Travolta while bearing his current waistline and bugging her eyes out in imitation of the Hildebeast which I think is designed to make us think she has some sort of authority. These are two examples of the lay staff at Holy Family.

Monsignor Kagan is actually temporarily in charge of the parish itself. He is a major figure in the Chancery and I would be very surprised if Father Grady did this firing but find it much more likely that it was Bishop Doran or that the bishop designated Kagan so he could drop the axe. In matters potentially legal, it is best for the bishop to create buffers. Why talk to Stein directly and run the risk of being lied about later?

I suspect that you mean well here and that you are trying to apply the rules fairly to all but if anyone is going to be blamed or praised, I think the Chancery, the Bishop and Monsignor Kagan did the firing. Today's paper may have more.

The reporterette, Edith Webster, is the religion editor of the Rockford Red Star and a moron. We have had articles, for example, attributing the annual Life Chain demonstration (actually Protestant in origin) as solely Catholic although the Evangelical Free Church, the conservative Lutherans, Baptists and numerous independent churches probably contribute as many or more participants since we are only 25% Catholic in Illinois and hereabouts.

[ninenot]

Looks as though Doran is employing a 'hit squad' of orthodox priests (or at least one...) who have the terrible job of firing flagrant scandal-causers.

Nice technique. It takes a bit longer to get things done that way, but if the first-string can't do the job, you bring in the bench.

[WriteOn]

My reservations are about the seventy-ish man who is an "Extraordinary Minister of the Eucharist" and stands behind the Monsignor during Mass flashing peace signs at the congregation. [Hi, I'm Abby Hoffman, and, if you don't strategize, I might be serving you the Wafer], and the female lector who raises first one arm and then the other on alternating petition prayers, emulating a Saturday Night Fever dance maneuver of John Travolta while bearing his current waistline and bugging her eyes out in imitation of the Hildebeast which I think is designed to make us think she has some sort of authority. These are two examples of the lay staff at Holy Family.

ROFL!

[B-Chan]

B-Chan: Thanks for reminding us (#14) that it is still possible to be Catholic in your diocese. You have hit the proverbial nail on the head.

Thanks, but I can't take the credit for any of that. I myself am a pretty poor example of a Catholic, truth be told. Fortunately for me, our parish is full of pious, orthodox Anglican Use Catholics to take up the slack!

[Salvation]

**The most disturbing thing is that these fellow parishoners would show any form of support for a homosexual couple, and, moreover, their intent to adopt a child. Breathtaking and shocking. V's wife**

Exactly!

From The Catechism of the Catholic Church

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered." They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved

[Technogeeb]

When Archangel Lucifer Morningstar

Funny and appropriate; but Lucifer wasn't an archangel.

[John Beresford Tipton]

Perhaps he refused to bang an altar boy in a three-way?

[crazykatz]

Excellent and brillant!!

Thanks for making this comparison. It is absolutely, brillant!

[Barnacle]

?;^)

[dsc]

"stands behind the Monsignor during Mass flashing peace signs at the congregation."

I'm afraid I'd just have to do something about that, even if it came down to breaking his arm.

[GenXFreedomFighter]

Great to hear that some authorities are striving to keep the Church Catholic. I just wish our new bishop here in Lexington, KY would do something about the priest who recently baptized the four in-vitro fertilized children of a homosexual CINO couple here (surrogate mother and all) at our cathedral parish. It is clear that these guys have no intention to raise these children in anything remotely resembling the Catholic faith. That is an essential promise in order for the baptism to take place, if I am not mistaken. It was in the news a few weeks ago that they even want to do it all over again!

Our esteemed new mayor, also a CINO, proclaimed in the local bird cage liner that she has never been prouder to be a Catholic! We're in trouble here.

[kstewskis]

Do they think the Catechism is not binding?

They might think so, if they'd bother to read it.

[Jeff Chandler]

In a further development, the church will begin singing hymns at Mass rather than the customary show tunes.

LOL! Excellent, Smithers.

[saradippity]

As long as they continue to use the present system wherein the Board of Consultors,usually priests that the bishop trusts,sending a list of three recs (terna)to the Papal Nuncio,and the Papal Nuncio merges other ternas from the area,and passes it by some high level USCCB bishops we will continue to get dreck from dreck. Certainly your area headed by the archbishop of Loiusville has some strange birds.

Currently the USCCB is still governed by Bernardin cronies but we can pray that the tide is turning but until then I think your area is doomed to heretics or at best mediocrity.Sounds to me like you have a bad bishop. Yuk,baptizing in vitro children of a same sex couple.

If the Nuncio is of the saame mind as the leading bishops,he will just pass along three weak sisters to the Secretary of the Congregation of Bishops in Rome and he or his clerics usually send this along to the Pope. Poor Pope,he needs our prayers.

I reread your post,maybe we can pray that at this very minute your new bishop is planning action against that priest. Can you tell me anything about the priest who did the baptizing?

[ninenot]

Hate to tell you but Kentucky (both LEx. and Louisv.) Dioceses are real pits.

I assume you cut/pasted the story and forwarded to the USCC and the Papal Legate in DC, as well as to the Congregation for Bishops in Rome...

[ninenot]

Separating the issues on the Ky. story is important.

The babies are better off baptized, obviously. We recognize that the promises made by the "parents" will likely be broken--but that is the problem of the "parents."

It is, however, an interesting question as to whether the priest views baptizing the children as the 'primum bonum' adn thus proceeded.

Ping Sinky and ThomasMore for opinions

[Alex Murphy]

45 posts later, and no one has picked up on this yet. The day is mine!

Stein was hired five years ago to play organ

You can't make quotes like this up.

[ninenot]

Well, you took your opportunity to Carpe the Diem. Great.

However, as a (rusty former) church organist, I have heard such references a bunch of times....it has sort of lost its 'zing' for me...

[Terriergal]

Unbelieveable how brash and unashamed people are nowadays. Abominable.

[Terriergal]

Interesting article, o music director.

[Terriergal]

Bingo! Especially from someone in a leadership position. I'll heartily agree worship ain't about 'talent' - it's about obedience and one's relationship with God.