A Baptist's Search For Historical Proof of St. Patrick Takes Her To Rome

CH Network ^ | Patty Patrick Bonds

[Saint Athanasius]

I can understand your concern.

But there was no attacks in the article, and no one made any so far.

I think it is good reading... and helpful to show a different perspective from the one they are use to.

[ArrogantBustard]

The real issue is whether the doctrine is true

Interesting you should say that. When the abuse scandal broke last year, we (Catholics) were often asked why we didn't just up and leave... the answer is, of course, that "the real issue is whether the doctrine is true", not whether some of the ministers are first-class dirtbags.

More to the point, here, finally understanding some truth (or Truth) can be a profound, emotional experience. In my former life as a teacher, I could always see, in their facial expressions, when my students finally understood what I was getting at. But the point was not to give them all a bunch of warm fuzzies; it was to impart understanding of a certain set of knowledge.

[ArrogantBustard]

Oh, and Hermann makes a very important point that understanding one simple fact can be key to understanding a huge body of knowledge. This applies whether the subject is physics or Christian doctrine.

[Hermann the Cherusker]

Yes. It was the culmination for the search of the true Church starting at 16 by reading the Bible and returning to practice in the Episcopal Church after a 5 year hiatus. It was also bothered by a constant nagging to become a Catholic during the entire search because of Acts 2.42 - the Apostles celebrated the Eucharist daily.

[nickcarraway]

Surpised by Truth 3: 10 More Converts Explain the Biblical and Historical Reason for Becoming Catholic : This book contains Patti Bonds' full story and nine other stories, including Dwight Longenecker.

[nickcarraway]

If you read the whole story that experience comes only after an in depth study of doctrine.

[NYer]

I certainly did not take this to be a conversion experience.

The woman is a staunch Baptist. She distrusts catholics, especially the ones wearing the "fish hats".

Being a five point Calvinist in an extremely Calvinist environment meant that I saw myself as being in the center God's revealed truth. I actually thanked him regularly for choosing me to be one of his children and blessing me with the truth that the vast majority of the world was deprived of.

The LAST THING she has on her mind as she plugs in the name 'St. Patrick' is catholicism - she even expresses her disdain over the fact that St. Patrick was a catholic.

So, what is it that changes her heart? NO, it was not the mass. She felt uneasy stepping into the catholic church - "the very thought of it gave her the creeps". The pivotal moment was this ...

What I discovered in St. Patrick's Confessions was a humble and Godly man who knew God the way I had come to know him. Now for some people this might not have been very eventful, but for me this discovery was seismic.

What was her reaction?

Giving even a passing thought to the Catholic faith was so frightening to me that I decided I should visit my brother's web site and remind myself of all the reasons that Catholics were wrong.

How did she handle it?

I would not have been caught dead buying a Catholic book or even entering a Catholic bookstore. I had a reputation to protect. In my family and in my circle of friends, to have even considered the Catholic faith would have been fatal to my reputation.

Like many protestants who believe in 'sola scriptura'

I remembered the web site I found with hundreds of verses that disagreed with my position on "once saved, always saved." I realized that with every church I saw along the streets of Phoenix, there was yet another interpretation of scripture. Who had the authority to determine what scripture really meant? Where was the unity Jesus prayed for?

So, what did she discover in her quest for truth?

What I discovered was not only were the Fathers not misquoted, but I had found a gold mine of spiritual wisdom from the first few generations of Christians. These people had passed the faith along in oral Tradition as meticulously as they had preserved sacred scripture. They had guarded the truth by the promise of Jesus Christ and in the power of the Holy Spirit and the gates of hell had not prevailed.

This story, Steve, mirrors so many other conversion stories, in that the innocent victim sets out to disprove the catholic faith and ends up embracing it in the end.

By all means, DO NOT PURCHASE Patrick Madrid's book "Surprised by the Truth", unless you can handle it. I posted this thread for the cradle catholics, like myself, who have never experienced a personal conversion from one faith to another. Many of us have experienced a conversion of heart. We take for granted that which we have inherited. Sometimes, we need to read these stories, as a reminder of the great gift bequeathed to us by our Lord, Jesus Christ, through His church.

P.S. - what is a 5 point Calvinist?

[NYer]

Sorry, Nick, meant to BUMP you on post #27. :-)

[NYer]

Bump! A heartwarming story!

[drstevej]

I'm gonna back off this thread tonight.

We found out this afternoon that my wife's brother passed away unexpectedly (he lives in another state -- and it is a sad story) so I am not really up to the debate.

***P.S. - what is a 5 point Calvinist?***

I'll ping wrigley, he'll be gentle with you as he explains

[nickcarraway]

Sorry for your loss.

[NYer]

My prayers for you, your wife and your brother-in-law and his family. May he rest in peace in the loving arms of our Lord.

[wideawake]

A 5 point Calvinist holds a theology of salvation acronymized by the mnemonic T.U.L.I.P.

This stands for

(1) Total Depravity (of man before Christ's grace);

(2) Unconditional Election;

(3) Limited Atonement;

(4) Irresistible Grace;

(5) Perseverance of the Saints.

[wideawake]

Sorry for your loss. My prayers go out to your family.

P.S. - I gave NYer the basics.

[ArrogantBustard]

wife's brother passed away unexpectedly

I am very sorry to read that, and can very well empathize with your distress. I shall certainly remember your family in my prayers this evening.

[Desdemona]

We found out this afternoon that my wife's brother passed away unexpectedly (he lives in another state -- and it is a sad story) so I am not really up to the debate.

That's awful. My condolences.

[drstevej]

Thanks!

[Patrick Madrid]

"Experience trumps doctrine."

Yes, the same way, for example, experience trumped doctrine for Saul of Tarsus in Acts 9:1-9. The Lord frequently works that way ;)

[dansangel]

What a beautiful story. How courageous this woman was to take the first step and how blessed that her immediate family followed.

[Patty Bonds]

Well, this is the one and only time that experience came before understanding of truth during my journey. God had to go this route to get my attention and direct my studies, but from this point on, it was all learning and understanding backed up and FOLLOWED by any experiences that happened. I was raised not trusting experiences. In fact, my family taught me to run from people who "had experiences." I guess I would have had to run from St. Pete and St. Paul. They were forever seeing angles and having visions. Ooops, and scrap that old book of Revelation. That was a mind blowing experience for St. John I am sure. The centuries have been full of Saints who had visions and mystical experiences. But I would put any of them up against any furndamentalist in their knowledge of Scriptures and Tradition. True Christianity is not limited to the brain. It's a total person experience. God created our whole person, and He intends to relate to our whole person. Thus the sacraments. So fuss all you want about my experiences. I would not be a Catholic today if it were not for the solid and undeniable evidence from scripture and history. Meanwhile, I pray that someday you too come to know Him up close and personal in the Eucharist.