Rapture Rumble: Catholic Author Debates "Left Behind" Author

Envoy Magazine ^ | 07-22-03 | Carl Olson

[Patrick Madrid]

Envoy Magazine's volume 7.1 features the article, "Rapture Rumble," a lengthy, written exchange between Envoy editor Carl Olson and Left Behind creator and co-author Dr. Tim LaHaye. Because of the length of that exchange in Envoy Magazine, some of it had to be cut. Here are the sections of the debate that were "left behind" on the editing floor, prefaced by Olson’s initial letter to LaHaye and concluding with a final exchange in which LaHaye tells Olson, "I do grieve for your soul" because of the latter’s entrance into the Catholic Church. (Olson is a convert to the Catholic Church from Fundamentalist Protestantism.)

[As you well know...]

40 million? Ha Ha Ha...It is hysterically funny but I know he believes it to be true.

[Tax-chick]

LaHaye promotes birth control, including pills, as a "gift" to married couples. When I saw that, I threw away the book I had (wouldn't even give it to the library) and refuse to touch anything else.

If you want science fiction with a curious religious twist and GREAT writing, try "Babylon 5."

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

As I've said before, don't waste your time on the LEFT BEHIND books. They are designed to put money in the author's pocket.
There are so many better books to read. You might start with the BIBLE!

[wideawake]

There's actually a couple of interesting books written on the humor in the Bible - humor that gets a bit lost in translation.

[wideawake]

Please document LaHaye's support for the culture of death. That info could prove very useful.

[wideawake]

There are so many better books to read. You might start with the BIBLE!

Thank you!

I'm at the point now in my Scripture study where I'm learning the Greek and Hebrew - it is a really good feeling to spend your leisure time sharpening your mind while learning more about God's Word.

I wouldn't trade a minute of it for trashy novels or TV sitcoms.

[MarMema]

"When you have a church that often throughout history used the power of the state to persecute others who loved Jesus Christ because they disagreed with them and destroyed their writings – it is only natural that church history will be presented from that churches’ position."

LaHaye - B+ - because he said "who loved Jesus Christ"
Catholic church - F - because the leadership has long denied their continual support of evil behavior among their clergy.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

GO FOR IT!

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

***What an embarassing jackass the LaHaye guy is***

Prophecy preachers have a tendency to build on the works of other prophecy preachers. Their errors are compounded and soon their failures begin to be exposed. If one looks at all the times Christ was supposed to return in the last 100 years and has failed to show up we must ask ourselves, do these people REALLY have a corner on some secret knowledge from the scriptures? I doubt it.

Salem Kirban, Hall Linsey, Van Impe, and La Haye, all in the same boat.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

Addendum to # 49.

Rub-a-dub-dub four men in a tub lost on the ocean blue...

[Tax-chick]

The book I threw away was "The Act of Marriage." It's in every Protestant book store, maybe even your library. It has a whole chapter on birth control, basically saying all artificial methods are morally acceptable, while NFP doesn't work. It's interesting that the Torodes (Protestant authors of "An Open Embrace") also single this book out as leading Christian couples astray.

Without meaning to insult Mr. and Mrs. LaHaye, I found their approach to marriage relations to be, well, basically pagan. I don't know how else to describe the seeking after physical, s*xual pleasure as an end in itself, rather than as only one facet of a life-giving act, and an even smaller part of a lifelong godly marriage. I found it very unpleasant, and it did not cause me to feel positively about marital relations, KWIM?

[Flying Circus]

Orthodox taking the side of Protestants just to take a cheap dig at the Catholics again. Especially gratuitous when the Catholics are defending against a Protestant advocating novel ideas that go completely against the Holy traditional deposit of faith shared with the Orthodox.

Why don't you add your voice to debunking the heresies of dispensationalism? Does your spite againt the Catholic Church so outwiegh your love for Christ and the gift He gives us in the orthodox faith?

[Conservative til I die]

I thought Olsen starting out by calling him a plagiarizer wasn't exactly trying to build rapport and gain a convert, would you?

He didn't come right out and call him a plagiarizer. And I wouldn't say he was trying to gain a convert. LaHaye, however, was outright obnoxious.

[Conservative til I die]

Do you have any idea of what a good book is?

[Conservative til I die]

Sad that in your hate for the Catholic Church you would get in bed with a trashy fundamentalist.

[Conservative til I die]

Why don't you add your voice to debunking the heresies of dispensationalism? Does your spite againt the Catholic Church so outwiegh your love for Christ and the gift He gives us in the orthodox faith?

The answer is yes. Religion to some of the Orthodox here is like gangsterism, with turf wars. Considering where Orthodoxy is most prevalent, I'm not surprised one bit.

[xzins]

Like I said. I didn't like the style of either one of them. And neither one convinced me of anything. I felt that they were trying to bloodlet throughout the whole "debate" (which wasn't, but was an argument in public.)

Shame on both of them.

However, just for the record, there is a biblical and a historic basis for both the amillennial position and the premillennial position. (Records of the premill are somewhat older. Those of the amill are more broadly represented.)

What seems to determine one's conclusion is the interpretive method one uses. The "spiritual" interpretive method generally arrives at an amillennial understanding. The "literal" interpretive method generally arrives at a premillennial understanding. BOTH groups are dedicated Christians.

Olson & LaHaye's public tiff with each other really shed a lot of heat and very, very little light.

[Conservative til I die]

Let me apologize for my choice of words to describe Marmema. Calling someone a gangster brings up visions of violent crime, which is not what I meant. I was referring to the provincial "Stay out! This is our turf" attitude and the general antagonism towards the Catholic Church as somer sort of rival (as opposed to just a group with different beliefs) I've seen here from certain posters.

[Salvation]

Will bookmark.

Someone just gave me Olson's book Will Catholics Be Left Behind? to read as my knee mends. Should be interesting.

I have found LaHaye and Jenkins' theories funny and yet sometimes fascinating --How in the heck did they draw that conclusion from the Bible?--

[fishtank]

Yes I do.

However, most of what I read is apologetic/worldview material, and not what would be called "literature".

I am part of a Christian book discussion group, and I have a book shelf with about 4 feet of the books we've read in the last several years.