It’s not your mother’s Catholic Church

Catholic Chronicle ^ | July 4, 2003 | PAT TODAK

[NYer]

  “On more than one occasion I recall having worn toilet paper, Kleenex, a paper towel, and even a waist-long stocking cap when I’d forgotten my chapel cap,” recalls Anne Kwiatkowski of Perrysburg. She remembers fasting before Masses and how her brothers would pack both breakfast and lunch to eat at school after Mass on the days they were serving.
  “I think today’s Catholic Church is much more user-friendly,” says Mrs. Kwiatkowski. “The shortage of priests mandates more involvement from lay people, especially women.” She finds that being more involved makes her want to be at Mass more. And she sees that in her daughters as well. “I don’t know that I’ve ever heard them say, ‘Do we have to go to church today?’ When they were younger they loved the children’s liturgies. Now they enjoy being able to serve — something I wasn’t allowed to do.”
  
  At a recent bridge game, Anne’s mom, Barb Vanderkelen, and some of her friends reflected on the many changes they have witnessed in the church through the years. They remembered 40-Hour Devotions; praying when the Angelus Bells rang at noon and 6; and an endless stream of processions. “It seemed like we wore out our First Communion dresses with all the processions we were in,” says Mrs. Vanderkelen.
  The women also recalled Rogation Day, which was one of the three days of prayer preceding Ascension Day, and Ember Days, which were days reserved for prayer and fasting.
  Mrs. Vanderkelen also remembers her grandparents paying pew rental. “I think it was 25 cents,” she says adding, “They always sat in the same pew.”
  Although Mrs. Vanderkelen believes the Catholic Church is better since Vatican II, she misses some of the processions and other ceremonies that filled the church year. “I think 40-Hours was a nice thing,” she says. “It seems like we’ve cut back on a lot of meaningful services.”
  
  Ann Studer thinks her children miss out by not having sisters teach at their Catholic school. “Our school had Franciscan nuns,” she says. “They were so nice — so kind. I wish my kids could have the opportunity to have nuns for teachers.”
  Mrs. Studer remembers her mom telling how she had to go to confession every Saturday before Mass the next day. As a student at Alter School in Rossford, she and her classmates attended Mass twice during the school week and never missed a Sunday. “It’s too bad, but it seems like less and less time is devoted to church in many families’ schedules today.”
  On the plus side she believes that she and her children have a greater opportunity to learn more about their faith than her mom’s generation did. “My mom said she never studied the Bible in school, but I did and my children do now. It’s more of a two-way street now — learning process rather than just memorization. My kids understand more about what happened in the Bible and why.”
  
  When reflecting on how the church has changed since her mother’s day, Jan Nicholas of Sylvania recalled a conversation she had with her mom shortly before she passed away. “I remember talking with her about how differently people dressed for Mass,” she says. “When I was younger I would not go to church without a dress or skirt on. Today, you see so many jeans.”
  Although Mrs. Nicholas enjoys the relaxed attire, she says she wouldn’t mind going back to the more formal ways of the past, even wearing hats. “I remember how nice it was wearing chapel veils,” she says. Unlike Mrs. Kwiatkowski, Mrs. Nicholas never had to put a Kleenex on her head. “Oh some of my friends did,” she laughed, noting that she frequently carried extra chapel veils in her pocket to loan to friends.
  There are many parts of the Mass that Mrs. Nicholas really enjoys today. “I love the Sign of Peace and holding hands during the Our Father,” she says. “It gives the Mass more meaning for me.”
  
  You would never find Carol Stoll’s mom whistling a happy tune. “My mother told me she was never allowed to whistle because it would make the Blessed Virgin Mary cry.”
  Ms. Stoll recalls that the Fatima experience occurred when her mom was young and made a profound impact on her mom’s life. “It was fairly common for the first-born girl to be named after the Blessed Virgin,” she says. “My mom was the oldest of five. Her name was Anna Maria.”
  “Girls were encouraged to be Mary-like and wear blue,” says Ms. Stoll. “After all, the best girls got chosen to be Mary in the Christmas pageant and to crown the Blessed Virgin Mary (statue) in May.”
  Nuns were a big part of both her and her mom’s church history. “The sisters staffed the Catholic schools and along with parents were the primary teachers of Catholicism,” she recalls. She remembers nuns wearing the signature habit with a large dangling rosary and usually a crucifix. “They lived next to the church in convents, didn’t drive, and seemed to be in abundance,” she says.
  Although her mother attended a public school in Glandorf, Ms. Stoll says that sisters comprised the entire teaching staff.
  She remembers when communion was received from the priest’s hand to your tongue while kneeling at the altar rail. “You never touched the host. Oh, the things that could happen to you if you did!”
  As a young Catholic, Ms. Stoll abstained from meat every Friday and fasted every day of Lent. “We would fast from midnight before receiving Communion. The nuns would often cover the drinking fountains to help in this endeavor.”
  She remembers adult Catholics being encouraged to carry a card with them that said, “In case of an accident, please call a priest.” She also remembers how families were encouraged to have holy water fonts on the wall of each bedroom in the home.
  And, as a youngster, she was frequently reminded that she was always surrounded by both a guardian angel and the devil.
  “I am a product of both pre- and post-Vatican II,” Ms. Stoll says. “Pondering this makes me realize that I have witnessed tremendous changes in the Church over time. I have seen the Church evolve from the serious, less accepting, fire and brimstone institution of my mother’s era to the embracing, forgiving, gentler, more lay-involved and inclusive environment of today. There is no question that I am very happy to be worshipping at this point on the Church’s timeline. I enjoyed hearing about the Church of the past at my mother’s knee, but much prefer worshipping in the Church of the present.
  “Truthfully, I’m certain my mother would too. To live her religion meant to nurture, guide, support, serve, forgive, and love unconditionally. These all describe the Catholic Church today. I’ll bet like her daughter, Mom would enjoy being a current member.”

[NYer]

She remembers adult Catholics being encouraged to carry a card with them that said, “In case of an accident, please call a priest.”

Here in New York, catholics will have to resume this practice. The new Privacy Act, prevents hospitals from asking patients their religious affiliation. It is up to the patient to request a priest.

For those who arrive unconscious, knocking at death's door, they should be equipped with a card with the above words.

[NYer]

“It was fairly common for the first-born girl to be named after the Blessed Virgin,” she says.

At my grandmother's baptism, the priest asked the parents what name they had chosen. They responded Rita Marie. He baptised her Marie Rita.

[Pyro7480]

I think you're inviting a lot of discussion with this article ;-)

[Coleus]

Oh, for the good old days, I wish I was a part of it...>>

Here in New York, catholics will have to resume this practice. The new Privacy Act, prevents hospitals from asking patients their religious affiliation. It is up to the patient to request a priest.

For those who arrive unconscious, knocking at death's door, they should be equipped with a card with the above words.>>>

Great idea, I will write my bishop about it and tell my pastor. A couple of weeks ago, I was standing next to my pastor when a hospital employee came up to him and said, "you know, so and so is in the hospital" he said thanks but he can't do anything unless the family calls and requests him to come.

What happens to the people who have no families in the area? Suppose you are on a trip or at college or anywhere in America on death's door and you need a priest? I'm surprised W supported such a law. Clinton wins again.

[katnip]

In our little neighborhood in Queens, there was a fish store that was only open on Fridays.

They sold raw fish or if you liked, the Italian lady who spoke no english would bread and fry the flounder and give you a bag of fried potatoes with it. Yummm....

[Dusty Rose]

Fish on Friday. We hear a lot nowdays about eating more fish for our health. Perhaps it would be a good idea for many of us to eat fish once a week, for our physical as well as our spiritual health.

[Loyalist]

PING.

Aren't you all happy that we can hold hands at the Our Father and sing Kumbaya?

You aren't?

Then what's wrong with you?

[Sneer]

I think you are right about the many responses that can be made to this post. I would like to make just one. In February of the year 1966, Pope Paul VI promulgated an Apostolic Constitution (17 Feb. 1966) entitled Paenitemini in which he said that the law of the Church still says to abstain from meat on every Friday throughout the year.
However, he gave permission to go against the letter of the law if the conference of bishops of a particular country petitioned the Holy See, the Pope, for permission for their people to do another penance on Friday in place of not eating meat. So, in those countries whose bishops have gone through the channels to petition the Pope for permission to substitute another penance instead of not eating meat on Friday, those individuals in those countries can substitute another penance.
But what you have not been told, and no one seems to know, is that you still have the obligation to do another penance on that Friday and you are still bound under pain of mortal sin.

[Thorondir]

Right! After all, we are all copper wires and the prayer itself is an electrical current. That's why we have to do it that way. Otherwise it doesn't work.

Right?

[Loyalist]

I have seen the Church evolve from the serious, less accepting, fire and brimstone institution of my mother’s era to the embracing, forgiving, gentler, more lay-involved and inclusive environment of today. There is no question that I am very happy to be worshipping at this point on the Church’s timeline.

Embracing of evil, forgiving without repentance, gentle with effeminacy and moral flabbiness. If you're happy with it, then you have a lot you shouldn't be happy about.

[Thorondir]

You aren't kidding, my friend, but the libomodernist's eyes are not capable of seeing the truth.

A liberal is someone so open-minded that his brain fell out.

[redhead]

"For those who arrive unconscious, knocking at death's door, they should be equipped with a card with the above words.

In the good old days, anything that could be worn around the neck or carried in a pocket seemed to have "I AM A CATHOLIC. IN CASE OF AN ACCIDENT, PLEASE CALL A PRIEST."

[Litany]

I loved 40 hours procession.

[B Knotts]

The requirement for some kind of abstinence on Fridays year round is actually still in effect. Many people don't realize this.

For simplification, I've simply adopted the old fish on Fridays tradition all year long. And, yes, health-wise, it's a good idea as well.

[Salvation]

**It is up to the patient to request a priest.**

In Oregon this is true also.

[ultima ratio]

This article is so much hogwash. It is not true that children learn more about the faith today. In fact, there is a crisis of catechesis worldwide. It is ridiculous to say devotions were "nicer" back then or are more "user-friendly" than was the preconciliar Church. The test for user-friendliness is whether souls are being saved, not whether things are "nicer". If niceness is the measure, let's all become Quakers, for heaven's sake. The truth is, the Conciliar Church has been awash in a sea of corruption for forty years--and this is a pretty crappy reality and incredibly un-nice. Priests are less, not more, accessible, and they are less, not more, devout, and the sacraments are less, not more, accessible today, and so on down the line with every measure of spiritual well-being. As a result of a cataclysmic ecclesiastical decline, souls are universally in more, not less, danger of being lost, no matter how much bullhockey emanates from Rome these days. The entire article is the sheerest pollyanna-ish propaganda.

[sinkspur]

But what you have not been told, and no one seems to know, is that you still have the obligation to do another penance on that Friday and you are still bound under pain of mortal sin.

Mortal sin? If you'll provide a reference, I'll believe you.

[NYer]

They sold raw fish or if you liked, the Italian lady who spoke no english would bread and fry the flounder and give you a bag of fried potatoes with it. Yummm....

Lol!!! I once met an Italian lady who could not pronounce the word "shrimp". It always came out "skrimp". I'll never forget the one Easter when she went to local butch(er) (she always stopped after the butch) and ordered 'baby lamb' for Easter dinner. When she went to pick it up, he handed her a nice young leg of lamb. She handed it back, saying: " This is the great grandfather of the lamb I ordered.".

I also grew up in Queens ... which part of Queens had this fish market?

[NYer]

But what you have not been told, and no one seems to know, is that you still have the obligation to do another penance on that Friday and you are still bound under pain of mortal sin.

An excellent point! And you are absolutely right. This message has been lost to many catholics over the years. Recently, another freeper brought this to our attention. Self-denial is good for the body, while penance works "miracles" on the soul As Dusty Rose noted, "Perhaps it would be a good idea for many of us to eat fish once a week, for our physical as well as our spiritual health."

Ever since Hermann the Cherusker brought this to our attention, I have switched back to meatless Fridays. This can't be right 'cause it actually feels good. Let's get the word out .... Vatican Council II sought a greater participation by the laity. "Start spreading the new!"

[NYer]

This article is so much hogwash.

I was wondering how long it would take before you showed up ... just under 3 hours ... definitely not record setting. Try again?

The truth is, the Conciliar Church has been awash in a sea of corruption for forty years

And the solution is ........ to join the SSPX! Did you ever make your Confirmation? What happened to your participation in the church militant? So many innocent catholics have been led astray. Why are you not fighting alongside of us? Fight or flee! Oh, I forgot .... when challenged, flee. To heck with the other catholics, you need to safeguard your own soul and those of your family.

[Dusty Rose]

I once met an Italian lady who could not pronounce the word "shrimp". It always came out "skrimp".

Wow, now I know why hubby, who grew up with an Italian mother, orders "skrimp" when we go out to eat. I've always thought he had some type of minor speech problem!

[narses]

Thanks for the post!

[ultima ratio]

"Did you ever make your Confirmation? What happened to your participation in the church militant"

I notice how quickly argument turns to personal attack with you. I focused on the article. You focus on me. That's pretty telling. As for following the SSPX--yes, it's a safer bet than continuing to attend Novus Ordo Masses which destroy the Catholic faith.

[NYer]

I notice how quickly argument turns to personal attack with you.

No personal attack intended!! The church militant, as you are so well aware, are the defenders of the faith. We follow the Magisterium and, in times of difficulty, do our duty to defend the faith.

Ask yourself this. Why are you afraid to fight on the side of Christ? You are obviously a man of great faith and ardent supporter of your Lord. He has called you by name at your Confirmation and in His hour of need, you hide behind the SSPX for safety? I don't understand that. Perhaps you can expound on your rationale.

I am NO fan of the abuses, as you well know but I will fight to the death to safeguard the catholics who are being led astray. Yes, it would be so much easier (and my pastor would rejoice) if I were to leave my parish church and seek shelter in an SSPX chapel, for my own soul's sake. But that does not resolve the problem of the other sheep who are following their shepherd, albeit misguided. They have no point of reference .. they are the sheeples who march to his orders. For forty years, they have placed their trust in him.

Those of us who know differently (that would be you and me), HAVE AN OBLIGATION to bring the sheeples to safe pasture and back into the embrace of their Lord. Why are you not out there tending to His flock?

As for following the SSPX--yes, it's a safer bet than continuing to attend Novus Ordo Masses which destroy the Catholic faith.

This simply proves my point. It's all about you. "Why have you abandoned me"?

[NYer]

I notice how quickly argument turns to personal attack with you.

No personal attack intended!! The church militant, as you are so well aware, are the defenders of the faith. We follow the Magisterium and, in times of difficulty, do our duty to defend the faith.

Ask yourself this. Why are you afraid to fight on the side of Christ? You are obviously a man of great faith and ardent supporter of your Lord. He has called you by name at your Confirmation and in His hour of need, you hide behind the SSPX for safety? I don't understand that. Perhaps you can expound on your rationale.

I am NO fan of the abuses, as you well know but I will fight to the death to safeguard the catholics who are being led astray. Yes, it would be so much easier (and my pastor would rejoice) if I were to leave my parish church and seek shelter in an SSPX chapel, for my own soul's sake. But that does not resolve the problem of the other sheep who are following their shepherd, albeit misguided. They have no point of reference .. they are the sheeples who march to his orders. For forty years, they have placed their trust in him.

Those of us who know differently (that would be you and me), HAVE AN OBLIGATION to bring the sheeples to safe pasture and back into the embrace of their Lord. Why are you not out there tending to His flock?

As for following the SSPX--yes, it's a safer bet than continuing to attend Novus Ordo Masses which destroy the Catholic faith.

This simply proves my point. It's all about you. "Why have you abandoned Me"?

[Maximilian]

But what you have not been told, and no one seems to know, is that you still have the obligation to do another penance on that Friday and you are still bound under pain of mortal sin.

If only this were true, but alas, it is not. The new code of canon law merely "recommends" some other form of penance in place of abstaining from meat. Nor does it make any penance mandatory, much less under pain of mortal sin.

[Maximilian]

The requirement for some kind of abstinence on Fridays year round is actually still in effect. Many people don't realize this.

I wish this were true, but the reality is that there is no "requirement," only a "recommendation" for penance on Friday.

[katnip]

I also grew up in Queens ... which part of Queens had this fish market?

In old Howard Beach, down by the train station.

[Desdemona]

Aren't you all happy that we can hold hands at the Our Father and sing Kumbaya?

You aren't?

Then what's wrong with you?

I have class and expensive taste and the audacity to understand classical music.

[sinkspur]

The new code of canon law merely "recommends" some other form of penance in place of abstaining from meat. Nor does it make any penance mandatory, much less under pain of mortal sin.

Because requiring penance under some stricture is like forcing your kid to eat his peas.

And it's even more bizarre to impose the fires of hell on someone who doesn't eat his peas.

[Desdemona]

This article does distill the pure...fluff...of what the current group of denim-clad "mommies" want. Those of us who aren't interested in touchy-feely are usually put down pretty severely.

[ultima ratio]

And you claim no personal attack was intended? But you question whether I was confirmed? Why I don't stay and fight? This is a good example of what anybody who struggles against the present depravity faces--your kind of shallow analysis. The problem is not with me and my not fighting alongside the Novus Ordo Church, the problem is with the Novus Ordo Church itself. Most of us can't do anything but run away from its putrefaction in order to protect our kids from the contagion.

But you say, stay and fight. But what you really mean is support the present establishment--which is precisely the problem in the first place. People like you still don't get it. Doing as you say would be the very opposite of fighting for the faith, it would be to surrender the faith, to follow instead those Judases who would impose on the rest of us a new--protestantized--faith.

No, now is the time to do as Christ had advised: look at their fruits! This alone will tell you the true prophets from the false--and so far the Conciliar Church has produced NOTHING OF VALUE. Their fruits have been uniformly rotten, their agenda radically unCatholic. Why should anybody want to defend such a debacle? Better to retreat to a remnant of true Catholics practicing the true faith.

[ultima ratio]

Exactly. A Mass with a theological patina of centuries--layer upon layer of spiritual nuances of surpassing beauty and power--has been lost. We have this brand-new piece of plastic in its place. Its appeal is to the childish and the sentimental. Truth and poetry have no place in it.

[TradicalRC]

I hear the whore of Babylon was pretty inclusive too. She took all comers.

[Sneer]

Please point me to the "new code of canon law". I am aware of only these and they are not just recommendations
# 1249 to 1253.

"All Christ's faithful are obliged by divine law, each in his or her own way, to do penance. However, so that all may be joined together in a certain common practice of penance, days of penance are prescribed. On these days the faithful are in a special manner to devote themselves to prayer, to engage in works of piety and charity, and to deny themselves, by fulfilling their obligations more faithfully and especially by observing the fast and abstinence which the following canons prescribe." [Canon Law # 1249]

"The days and times of penance for the universal Church are each Friday of the whole year and the season of Lent." [Canon Law # 1250]

"Abstinence from meat, or from some other food as determined by the Episcopal Conference, is to be observed on all Fridays, unless a solemnity should fall on a Friday. Abstinence and fasting are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday." [Canon Law # 1251]

"The law of abstinence binds those who have completed their fourteenth year. The law of fasting binds those who have attained their majority, until the beginning of their sixtieth year. Pastors of souls and parents are to ensure that even those who by reason of their age are not bound by the law of fasting and abstinence, are taught the true meaning of penance." [Canon Law # 1252]

"The Episcopal Conference can determine more particular ways in which fasting and abstinence are to be observed. In place of abstinence or fasting it can substitute, in whole or in part, other forms of penance, especially works of charity and exercises of piety." [Canon Law # 1253]

[sinkspur]

The new code was issued in 1983.

There's nothing about "mortal sin" in the canons you posted.

[RonF]

Fish on Friday. We hear a lot nowdays about eating more fish for our health. Perhaps it would be a good idea for many of us to eat fish once a week, for our physical as well as our spiritual health.

My wife came from a good Polish-Catholic family in Chicago. Her mother, bless her soul, was a lousy cook, at least when it came to fish. Thus, my wife's idea of fish was fish sticks. Then we moved to Boston while I finished school. I still remember the first time I took her to Legal Sea Food (the old one in Inman Square). She's never had fish like that. Now she actually likes fish!

[TradicalRC]

I must respectfully disagree with you on this. I do believe that UR is fighting on the side of Christ.

[sinkspur]

I do believe that UR is fighting on the side of Christ.

Whose side is NYer fighting on?

[Sneer]

You are right. The new code in 1983 did not remove the prior code proclaiming it a mortal sin to knowingly and willingly disobey the church teaching on abstaining from eating meat on Friday. It did however include some new substitutes mentioned in the "binding" canon law 1249 thru 1253. Having not removed the binding law as a mortal sin leaves it in effect doesn't it?

[sinkspur]

Having not removed the binding law as a mortal sin leaves it in effect doesn't it?

No. It would have to restate the stricture, which it did not do.

Creating penances and tying eternal fire to their observance isn't exactly what "seperation from God" means to me.

[narses]

I believe most of us here are "fighting on the side of Christ". There are many ways to Serve Our Lord.

[narses]

So eating meat during Lent is not a sin?

[sinkspur]

So eating meat during Lent is not a sin?

Maybe, but not one worthy of the fires of hell.

Wouldn't you agree?

[narses]

I don't know, that's why I asked. I will also ask my confessor, no disrespect intended. For me, when I fail to abstain when I should have, I confess.

[sinkspur]

For me, when I fail to abstain when I should have, I confess.

If you forget, it's not sinful, at all.

And even if you didn't forget, pick another day to fast on.

Is Friday more special to God than Tuesday?

[Maximilian]

Abstinence from meat, or from some other food as determined by the Episcopal Conference, is to be observed on all Fridays

The Episcopal Conference can determine more particular ways in which fasting and abstinence are to be observed.

The code of canon law left it up to the bishops' conference of each country. The US bishops decided to require NO fasting or abstinence on any days of the year except Ash Wednesday and Fridays of Lent. In the United States, as determined by the USCCB, in accord with the leeway in the canon law, there is no penance that is REQUIRED on any Friday not in Lent.

[ultima ratio]

A true Catholic would be someone who practices the true Catholic faith.

[Land of the Irish]

Is Friday more special to God than Tuesday?

Absolutely; it's the day Christ died for our salvation.