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Prelate says politicians who back abortion shouldn't go to Communion
Catholic News Service ^ | July 31, 2003

Posted on 08/02/2003 3:07:26 PM PDT by NYer

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To: sinkspur
Then why haven't you sent me Emails rather than publcly disagreeing with me?
51 posted on 08/02/2003 7:59:22 PM PDT by As you well know...
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To: NYer
Did you not listen to O'Malley's homily or were you too focused on the pews, looking to beam a spotlight on Kennedy and Kerry?

I did not have the opportunity of viewing or listening to the installation Mass; I was at work.

In retrospect, I'm glad I missed it.

However, I have read O'Malley's sermon and have been disappointed. I was even more disappointed when I learned Kerry was given Holy Communion.

I am a member of no society.

I do have problems with the Novus Ordo Mass, and thus avoid it when I can. However, I also acknowlege it as valid and lictit and I assist at it on occasion.

Any more questions?

52 posted on 08/02/2003 8:00:47 PM PDT by Land of the Irish
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To: As you well know...
Then why haven't you sent me Emails rather than publcly disagreeing with me?

I sense a tongue-in-cheek. If not, this is a discussion forum. And I'm not chastising you; we're talking over the back fence.

53 posted on 08/02/2003 8:02:30 PM PDT by sinkspur ("The entire Nazi Reich is mine for the taking!" George C. Scott as "PATTON.")
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To: NYer

Who purified all those sacramental vessels, the sacristy dishwasher?

54 posted on 08/02/2003 8:08:10 PM PDT by Land of the Irish
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To: Land of the Irish; sitetest
When you are right, you are right and both of you are right on this.

I do retain a good deal of hope for Sean Patrick O'Malley and I expect that he will do better as time goes by.

55 posted on 08/02/2003 8:08:36 PM PDT by BlackElk ( So long Uday and Qucay! Dad should be right along any day now!)
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To: sinkspur
sinkspur..it was a combination point. It was both tongue-in-cheek and (at least intended as) instructive and I think you caught my drift.

I think Bishop O'Malley is a good Bishop. I just desire a Bishop who will not accept any compromises with the spirit of the times.

I read what Bishop O'Malley had to say about Cardinal Law's resignation and I literally felt physical pain when I read it.

I do not understand this world or these times and I literally do not understand what is so radical about my desires. My desires used to be commonplace less than one-half of one century ago.

56 posted on 08/02/2003 8:08:54 PM PDT by As you well know...
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To: sinkspur
Dear sinskpur,

I'd still be interested in a response to #28, if it isn't too much trouble.


sitetest
57 posted on 08/02/2003 8:11:10 PM PDT by sitetest (To permit them to receive is to reinforce the delusion that they may endorse the murder of innocents)
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To: As you well know...
I do not understand this world or these times and I literally do not understand what is so radical about my desires. My desires used to be commonplace less than one-half of one century ago.

To the man with a hammer, everything's a nail.

You have a hammer. O'Malley, I suspect, wants to wield a velvet glove.

"Your desires" mean you have to somehow have a thirst slaked, which is what I meant by "blood drawn" being for the benefit of the bystanders.

You want a little blood, don't you? Come on, you can tell the truth.

58 posted on 08/02/2003 8:13:30 PM PDT by sinkspur ("The entire Nazi Reich is mine for the taking!" George C. Scott as "PATTON.")
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To: sitetest
The persons involved in the New Orleans Archdiocese to whom you refer were then Archbishop Cody (later Cardinal Cody of Chicago) who excommunicated publicly the Catholic boss of Plaquemines Parish (County) just south of New Orleans (one Leander Perez) for his persistent public racism against blacks. Prior to his excomunication, Leander Perez, who was also a major construction contractor, was probably the largest single donor to the Archdiocese of New Orleans, usually in the form of fully completed new schools. Cody did the right thing. I believe that this happened in the 1960s.
59 posted on 08/02/2003 8:15:18 PM PDT by BlackElk ( So long Uday and Qucay! Dad should be right along any day now!)
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To: sitetest
Many of us who think highly of Archbishop O'Malley, and who wish him well, and believe he will do fine in his new position, are nonetheless disappointed.

As the expression goes .... "you can please all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time but you can't please all of the people all of the time."

*Well, I'm not sure that anyone around here would call me a "trad", least of all the trads*

No, I wasn't referring to you.

*I didn't see the Installation Mass at all. I was at work while it happened*

So was I ... my supervisor, however, had an appointment so I watched it (volume turned low) over the internet. It was repeated at 10pm on EWTN.

He delivered his homily in 4 languages! Spanish, Portuguese, Creole and the body of it was done in English. The Offertory Prayers were given by representatives of just about every ethnic group in the Boston area.

*I hope that this isn't addressed to me. It is an insult. *

Again, it was not addressed to you.

All I ask is that everyone give O'Malley a chance to do what he has been brought there to do. His first priority is resolving the 500+ lawsuits pending against the diocese. As one news station reported:

Gary Bergeron, 41, who said both he and his younger brother were sexually abused by the late Rev. Joseph Birmingham in the 1970s, was one of dozens of alleged victims who were invited to attend the installation ceremony. Some chose to decline the invitation, but Bergeron attended with his parents.

"I think that his message was on target on all aspects," Bergeron said of O'Malley's homily. "Today is the first time I've felt a compassion from a church official in a long, long time."

Please cut him some slack! And, while you're at it, please read his homily. LadyDoc posted it to the religion forum.

60 posted on 08/02/2003 8:18:09 PM PDT by NYer (Laudate Dominum)
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To: BlackElk; sitetest
The persons involved in the New Orleans Archdiocese to whom you refer were then Archbishop Cody (later Cardinal Cody of Chicago) who excommunicated publicly the Catholic boss of Plaquemines Parish (County) just south of New Orleans (one Leander Perez) for his persistent public racism against blacks.

I usually defer to your pre-eminent intellectual prowess, Elk, but, in this case, I must correct.

The Archbishop of New Orleans in question was Joseph Rummel, who preceded Cody. Cody was in office in New Orleans less than eight months before being promoted to Chicago, where he was linked with a local matron for several years in a simmering scandal.

61 posted on 08/02/2003 8:20:53 PM PDT by sinkspur ("The entire Nazi Reich is mine for the taking!" George C. Scott as "PATTON.")
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To: Land of the Irish
Who purified all those sacramental vessels, the sacristy dishwasher?

There you go again! Here he is using gold vessels in TOTAL respect for the sacrament and you make fun of it. If you have nothing positive to say about this man, then say nothing. You jump on anything and everything to put him or his words or his actions and now his choice of vessels down.

62 posted on 08/02/2003 8:24:13 PM PDT by NYer (Laudate Dominum)
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To: NYer; sinkspur
Excellent point! Thank you for making it.

You guys have gone bonkers. You're trying to justify giving Holy Communion to known, public and unrepentant sinners. Judas was none of the above at the Last Supper. John Kerry is unrepentant; he should be denied Holy Communion in every Catholic church.

63 posted on 08/02/2003 8:24:56 PM PDT by Land of the Irish
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To: sinkspur; sitetest; Land of the Irish; As you well know...
I want a lot of blood. The more the merrier. It should start with Ted the Swimmer and Ketchupboy who also presumes to publicly attack the pope on the lavender lothario issues. These two (and many others) have a choice: to be Catholic or not. If not, let Archbishop O'Malley and other ordinaries in relevant dioceses formalize the status of these political quislings as apostates.
64 posted on 08/02/2003 8:26:05 PM PDT by BlackElk ( So long Uday and Qucay! Dad should be right along any day now!)
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To: BlackElk; sinkspur
Dear BlackElk,

The bishop involved was Archbishop Joseph Rummel. The future Cardinal Cody was the Archbishop-Coadjutor to Archbishop Rummel. Both men signed the letters which threatened excommunication. I believe that Archbishop Rummel alone signed the excommunications of the three miscreants, on April 16, 1962.

Sainted Archbishop Rummel died in 1964.

Sinkspur - was he wrong to publicly humiliate these people??



sitetest
65 posted on 08/02/2003 8:27:33 PM PDT by sitetest (To permit them to receive is to reinforce the delusion that they may endorse the murder of innocents)
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To: sitetest
I'd still be interested in a response to #28, if it isn't too much trouble.

Rommel did what he felt he had to do. I agree with it, but that was a different time.

I'm really surprised at your reaction. O'Malley's been in office three days, and you expect a man who's never been fire-and-brimstone to suddenly turn fire-and-brimstone.

O'Malley and I are in the same zip code, age-wise. Perhaps when you mellow, you'll gain the perspective he has.

66 posted on 08/02/2003 8:28:22 PM PDT by sinkspur ("The entire Nazi Reich is mine for the taking!" George C. Scott as "PATTON.")
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To: sinkspur
To the man with a hammer, everything's a nail.

A hammer can be used to build-up or tear down. In building up the Body of Christ, some things/individuals must be removed from the Church because their dry rot might weaken/infect the green wood.

You have a hammer. O'Malley, I suspect, wants to wield a velvet glove.

I know what I desire sounds so out of place in these times but why can't a Bishop weild a hammer while wearing a velvet glove?

"Your desires" mean you have to somehow have a thirst slaked, which is what I meant by "blood drawn" being for the benefit of the bystanders.

I want to see the Faith taught and protected by Our Shepherds. This needn't be done with a hammer nor need it be done by "drawing blood." It can be accomplished bloodlessly and dispassionately by a Bishop with the right mettle.

You want a little blood, don't you? Come on, you can tell the truth.

I can,occasionally, tell the truth. I do desire a Bishop who does not "massage" the situation. I really do think O'Malley (he is obviously intelligent)could have acccomplished the desires of both of us during his installation AND he could have exhibited charity towards Kerry et al by his resolute refusal to Communicate infamous Catholic Politicians who support abortion.

Being truthful and forceful (that doesn't necessarily mean cruel or harsh)is charity especially when it concerns the Eucharist.

67 posted on 08/02/2003 8:30:30 PM PDT by As you well know...
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To: NYer
Answer the question: Where were the sacramental vessels purified? Was it at the altar and who did it? Or do you even care?

You saw the Mass, I did not.

68 posted on 08/02/2003 8:32:51 PM PDT by Land of the Irish
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To: Land of the Irish
You're trying to justify giving Holy Communion to known, public and unrepentant sinners. Judas was none of the above at the Last Supper.

Jesus knew who would condemn him, yet He shared His very Life with a man who would hand Him over. Perhaps we still don't realize the depth of love of the Mind and Heart of Jesus.

I've never, in my life, read a defense of Judas before.

69 posted on 08/02/2003 8:33:12 PM PDT by sinkspur ("The entire Nazi Reich is mine for the taking!" George C. Scott as "PATTON.")
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To: sinkspur
Cody also died under federal indictment for income tax evasion for misappropriating archdiocesan funds to give to his longtime secretary (and her son?) whom I believe he brought from New Orleans. Cody died of cancer before his case could come to trial. The case died with him.

Chicago was still better served by Cody than by Bernardin.

If you are really sure it was Rummel and not Cody, I stand corrected but I thought the action against Perez was part of Cody's resume for promotion to Chicago. You are certainly more local to this than I am.

70 posted on 08/02/2003 8:33:42 PM PDT by BlackElk ( So long Uday and Qucay! Dad should be right along any day now!)
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To: sitetest
Sinkspur - was he wrong to publicly humiliate these people??

Not after ten years.

You expect O'Malley to act in ten minutes.

71 posted on 08/02/2003 8:34:56 PM PDT by sinkspur ("The entire Nazi Reich is mine for the taking!" George C. Scott as "PATTON.")
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To: Land of the Irish
Where were the sacramental vessels purified? Was it at the altar and who did it?

In the sacristy.

72 posted on 08/02/2003 8:37:13 PM PDT by sinkspur ("The entire Nazi Reich is mine for the taking!" George C. Scott as "PATTON.")
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To: NYer
Dear NYer,

"As the expression goes .... 'you can please all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time but you can't please all of the people all of the time.'"

True enough. And this time, I'm not pleased. But I'm just expressing disappointment, NYer. It's not like I'm running off to join the circus, er,.. the SSPX. ;-)

But even so, no one has made a coherent argument against my own. Not even you. You say, "Cut him slack!"

I do. But that's not an argument which upholds his position. It is an argument to... cut him slack. Like I said, I do. I think he'll do great. But no one has shown me here that he wasn't wrong on Wednesday to permit the criminal Kerry to receive the Blessed Sacrament.

That's my only point.

"*Well, I'm not sure that anyone around here would call me a "trad", least of all the trads*

"No, I wasn't referring to you."

Well, then, I'm sure that the trads are relieved. If I were one of them, I'm sure I'd ruin every party.

"He delivered his homily in 4 languages! Spanish, Portuguese, Creole and the body of it was done in English."

This much, I heard. Here on FR.

"*I hope that this isn't addressed to me. It is an insult. *

"Again, it was not addressed to you."

Thanks. I've taken a little too much grief around here defending Catholic bishops to let that comment slide unremarked.

"All I ask is that everyone give O'Malley a chance to do what he has been brought there to do. His first priority is resolving the 500+ lawsuits pending against the diocese."

Although that is an important priority, I don't really think it is the first. The first priority is for Archbishop O'Malley to make the Archdiocese of Boston a functioning Catholic diocese, again. His first priority is to make it function, and to make it function as a CATHOLIC diocese. The lawsuits are only part of that.

And read my tagline, NYer. It's true. It isn't about blood. Not for all of us. It's about truth. It's about the salvation of these slobs, perps like Kerry and Chappaquiddick Ted. When the BISHOP of their diocese doesn't let them know what's what, why shouldn't they think it's okay for them to endorse murder?


sitetest



73 posted on 08/02/2003 8:37:46 PM PDT by sitetest (To permit them to receive is to reinforce the delusion that they may endorse the murder of innocents)
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To: sitetest
See #70. I have yielded on the identity of the New Orleans archbishop. Rummel was right to do what he did and the bringing of humiliation upon miscreants is a good idea for a bishop. It is far less painful for the politician than is eternity in hell.
74 posted on 08/02/2003 8:38:05 PM PDT by BlackElk ( So long Uday and Qucay! Dad should be right along any day now!)
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To: sinkspur
You expect O'Malley to act in ten minutes.

I expect all Bishops to act like that in 1 second. If not, they should flee and refuse the Bishopric. If one is not ready to Teach, Rule, and Sanctify right from the get-go, why even accept the vocation?

You are making the ordinary (intentional) sound extraordinary and you are making those who expect the ordinary sound harsh and unreasonable.

75 posted on 08/02/2003 8:41:15 PM PDT by As you well know...
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To: sinkspur
Dear sinkspur,

Each one has his gifts.

"I'm really surprised at your reaction. O'Malley's been in office three days, and you expect a man who's never been fire-and-brimstone to suddenly turn fire-and-brimstone."

That isn't what the advance PR said. He was said to have called pro-abort pols in Florida (or perhaps his previous See in Massachusetts) "KKK without the sheets".

That's not fire and brimstone? I'd hate to see what is. He had a reputation as a straight-shooter, someone who doesn't beat around the bushes. Perhaps the advance PR was misleading. I don't know.

But I know that his reputation isn't similar to that of, say, Cardinal McCarrick. Cardinal McCarrick is a schmoozer. He's a politician, himself. That's fine. That's who and what he is.

Each one has his gifts. The Church needs all these gifts. There must be bishops who can schmooze. There must be bishops who can preach fire and brimstone.

There must be hammers. And there must be anvils.

From what I can see, we have a sufficient number of schmoozers and politicos. We need a few more folks like Bishop Bruskewitz, who excommunicates first, and asks questions later.

All right, that's an exaggeration. But it felt good to write it. ;-)


sitetest
76 posted on 08/02/2003 8:43:54 PM PDT by sitetest (To permit them to receive is to reinforce the delusion that they may endorse the murder of innocents)
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To: sinkspur
Dear sinskpur,

"O'Malley and I are in the same zip code, age-wise. Perhaps when you mellow, you'll gain the perspective he has."

LOL. I have mellowed. You shoulda seen me when I was a kid.


sitetest
77 posted on 08/02/2003 8:44:39 PM PDT by sitetest (To permit them to receive is to reinforce the delusion that they may endorse the murder of innocents)
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To: sinkspur
Dear sinkspur,

"'Sinkspur - was he wrong to publicly humiliate these people??'

"Not after ten years.

"You expect O'Malley to act in ten minutes."

Ah, sinkspur, this has been going on since 1973. The two men in question have been adamantly and unalterably pro-abort for decades, and have been unapologetic, even boastful about it for all that time.

And frankly, Archbishop O'Malley had more than ten minutes to act. He'd been appointed weeks ago. ;-)


sitetest
78 posted on 08/02/2003 8:47:24 PM PDT by sitetest (To permit them to receive is to reinforce the delusion that they may endorse the murder of innocents)
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To: sinkspur
I've never, in my life, read a defense of Judas before.

No one is defending Judas. My point is, Judas did not betray Christ until he kissed Jesus on His cheek, well after the Last Supper and the Agony in the Garden. At that point, Judas did become a known, public sinner. He never received Holy Communion again.

I suggest you view Mel Gibson's movie, when it comes out, since you're apparently too lazy to read the New Testament.

Then we can talk about Peter,the future first Pope, denying Christ three times and why he was given Holy Communion.

79 posted on 08/02/2003 8:49:28 PM PDT by Land of the Irish
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To: BlackElk
Dear BlackElk,

Yes, I saw that. But it was interesting that you weren't entirely erroneous in your remembrance. Cardinal Cody was there at that time. Just not as archbishop.


sitetest
80 posted on 08/02/2003 8:52:13 PM PDT by sitetest (To permit them to receive is to reinforce the delusion that they may endorse the murder of innocents)
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To: sitetest
We need a few more folks like Bishop Bruskewitz, who excommunicates first, and asks questions later.

Perhaps. But you'll notice that Bruskewitz is stuck like a bug on flypaper in Lincoln. His particular style won't play in a larger see, much like Myers in Newark, who ran into a buzz saw shortly after he arrived.

You know the honey-vinegar bit? Honey works. McCarrick is proof.

81 posted on 08/02/2003 8:54:10 PM PDT by sinkspur ("Messina, Brad! Messina!" George C. Scott as "PATTON.")
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To: sinkspur
In the sacristy.

I need verification other than yours. You're the one thinking John Kerrey is running for president.

82 posted on 08/02/2003 8:54:54 PM PDT by Land of the Irish
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To: Land of the Irish
Then we can talk about Peter,the future first Pope, denying Christ three times and why he was given Holy Communion.

As I said, we have miles to go before we understand the Mind and Heart of Jesus Christ.

Perhaps we should love greatly, and condemn lightly.

83 posted on 08/02/2003 8:59:45 PM PDT by sinkspur ("Messina, Brad! Messina!" George C. Scott as "PATTON.")
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To: sinkspur
Dear sinskpur,

"But you'll notice that Bruskewitz is stuck like a bug on flypaper in Lincoln."

He is in Lincoln for now. I'd be unsurprised if that changed eventually.

"His particular style won't play in a larger see, much like Myers in Newark, who ran into a buzz saw shortly after he arrived."

LOL. You think that because Archbishop Myers took some hits from the local heretics at the Newark Call to Action and Voice of the Faithful, he ran into a buzz saw?? Hahahaha. Archbishop Myers will adjust and succeed. As will Bishop Bruskewitz when he is given his next See.

"You know the honey-vinegar bit? Honey works. McCarrick is proof."

Ah, you owe me a quarter. Royalties. I already used that cliché in this thread.

I believe Cardinal McCarrick is a good prelate. But as I have said more than once in this thread, each man his has his own gifts, and we need them all. Not everyone is a top-tier schmoozer and politician like Cardinal McCarrick (who, by the way, seems rather serious about vocations).

We need folks like the Bishop O'Malley who called pro-aborts "KKK without the sheets", like the late Archbishop Rummel, who excommunicated the anti-Catholic perps, like Bishop Bruskewitz, who literally excommunicated every person in his See who was formally tied to and endorsing of legal abortion.

Not everyone ought to be a Cardinal McCarrick, God forbid it. Each one has his gifts. We need them all.


sitetest
84 posted on 08/02/2003 9:03:09 PM PDT by sitetest (To permit them to receive is to reinforce the delusion that they may endorse the murder of innocents)
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To: sinkspur
Perhaps we should love greatly, and condemn lightly.

Pax

85 posted on 08/02/2003 9:04:16 PM PDT by Land of the Irish
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To: NYer; All
I cannot agree enough with the Archbishop in this particular instance. His solidarity and commitment to our universal Christian faith is to be commended. The overwhelming majority of Roman Catholics are opposed to abortiaon, a.k.a. murder, and how certain liberal democrats have remained in communion with the pontiff is beyond the span of human knowledge. Why would a senator like the Hon. Edw. M. Kennedy, of Massachussetts be received by a faith system that is diametrically opposed to every fiber of his drunken being. It is my sincere hope that both this archbishop and his master in the triple-tiara will finally wise up and begin to clean house within the decrepit ranks of their subjects in this country.
86 posted on 08/02/2003 10:08:18 PM PDT by Ryan Bailey
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To: sitetest; sinkspur
>>vestigial Catholic<<

Good, descriptive term. I'll add it to my list.
87 posted on 08/02/2003 11:24:53 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (This tagline has been suspended or banned.)
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To: sitetest; sinkspur
The first priority is for Archbishop O'Malley to make the Archdiocese of Boston a functioning Catholic diocese, again. His first priority is to make it function, and to make it function as a CATHOLIC diocese. The lawsuits are only part of that.

In no way am I defending Kennedy or Kerry. I simply pointed out that on the day of his installment as Archbishop, O'Malley was stepping into a tinderbox. As sinkspur pointed out, O'Malley is not know for his fire and brimstone. His honest humility and forthright sincerity are the personal qualities that draw people to him. At Easter this year, 500 candidates were welcomed into the church in his Palm Beach diocese. The number was so high that they held two services to accomodate everyone.

O'Malley served fair warning prior to the Installation mass. Kennedy understood and respectfully left the cathedral. Kerry drew attention to himself, by remaining AND receiving communion. Give O'Malley a chance to address the issue with these two politicians at a time and in a manner of his choosing.

As for priorities, I repeat, on his first full day as archbishop, O'Malley appointed Boston attorney Thomas Hannigan as lead counsel for the archdiocese in handling the sex abuse claims. Hannigan is the attorney who helped O’Malley settle abuse cases in the Rev. James Porter cases in 1992 and 1993. By naming Hannigan as lead counsel, O’Malley drew praise from alleged victims of clergy sex abuse and their lawyers, who have long complained that lawyers in the Rogers firm used hardball tactics to try to settle the lawsuits.

While generally praising O’Malley for the work he’s done in other clergy sex abuse cases, lawyers for alleged victims said they may file a contempt lawsuit against the archdiocese to force it to turn over the records of additional priests accused of sexually abusing children.

O’Malley also announced church personnel changes, including the promotion of temporary administrator Bishop Richard Lennon to the No. 2 position in the archdiocese. O’Malley named Lennon -- who acted as interim leader of the archdiocese after Cardinal Bernard Law resigned as archbishop in December -- as vicar general and moderator of the curia, the second-highest position in the archdiocese.

Still care to light the match?

88 posted on 08/03/2003 2:39:47 AM PDT by NYer (Laudate Dominum)
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To: NYer
Dear NYer,

"Still care to light the match?"

This is a tendentious interpretation of what I've said. I don't care to discuss it further if you wish to mischaracterize what I've written. I do not wish to "light a match", or "draw blood", or any other negative, hostile, misrepresentative, inaccurate, or tendentious metaphor you wish to use.

It isn't "lighting a match" to tell folks privately that they must not approach the Blessed Sacrament anymore. It isn't "lighting a match" to enforce that order. It is not "lighting a match" to preach against abortion in a Catholic church, and call ALL Catholics to faitfulness on this point.

Your comments verge on insults, NYer. I don't care to continue the conversation with you. Find someone else to impugn.


sitetest
89 posted on 08/03/2003 5:45:28 AM PDT by sitetest (As for lighting matches, when one compares one's opponents in debate to pharisees...)
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To: Ryan Bailey
I cannot agree enough with the Archbishop in this particular instance. His solidarity and commitment to our universal Christian faith is to be commended.

Welcome to Free Republic, Mr. Bailey. Thank you for lending your support to Archbishop "Sean". I look forward to your exchange of views in the Religion Forum.

NYer

90 posted on 08/03/2003 6:06:39 AM PDT by NYer (Laudate Dominum)
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To: Land of the Irish; sinkspur
I suggest you view Mel Gibson's movie, when it comes out, since you're apparently too lazy to read the New Testament. Then we can talk about Peter,the future first Pope, denying Christ three times and why he was given Holy Communion.

1825 Christ died out of love for us, while we were still "enemies."[100] The Lord asks us to love as he does, even our enemies, to make ourselves the neighbor of those farthest away, and to love children and the poor as Christ himself.[101] The Apostle Paul has given an incomparable depiction of charity: "charity is patient and kind, charity is not jealous or boastful; it is not arrogant or rude. Charity does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrong, but rejoices in the right. Charity bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things."[102]

1826 "If I . . . have not charity," says the Apostle, "I am nothing." Whatever my privilege, service, or even virtue, "if I . . . have not charity, I gain nothing."[103] Charity is superior to all the virtues. It is the first of the theological virtues: "So faith, hope, charity abide, these three. But the greatest of these is charity."[104]
Catechism of the Catholic Church

It's a good book! Perhaps you should read it.

91 posted on 08/03/2003 6:29:42 AM PDT by NYer (Laudate Dominum)
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To: Land of the Irish
He never received Holy Communion again.

I tried to look it up in all four gospels online, and if there is clarity on whether or not Judas actually received, I would like to know. He may have left beforehand.

92 posted on 08/03/2003 6:42:16 AM PDT by Aliska
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To: Coleus
Thanks for the heads up!
93 posted on 08/03/2003 6:51:51 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: NYer
The 5th Commandment: Thou shalt not kill.

Abortion is murder.

People living in a state of mortal sin are not entitled to the Sacraments.

Which of the above tenets of the Catholic faith do you not understand?
94 posted on 08/03/2003 7:03:32 AM PDT by Land of the Irish
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To: Land of the Irish
People living in a state of mortal sin are not entitled to the Sacraments, execpt for the Sacrament of Confession.
95 posted on 08/03/2003 7:06:08 AM PDT by Land of the Irish
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To: NYer
Your posts are like an oasis in the desert. Thanks, so very much, for your participation.
96 posted on 08/03/2003 7:23:56 AM PDT by St.Chuck
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To: Land of the Irish
The 5th Commandment: Thou shalt not kill.

For consistency's sake, then I hope you are also calling for the church to act against politicians who support the death penalty.

97 posted on 08/03/2003 7:32:16 AM PDT by St.Chuck
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To: St.Chuck
Your posts are like an oasis in the desert. Thanks, so very much, for your participation.

Oh. So you, also, have no problem with giving Holy Communion to those openly and flagrantly living in state of mortal sin.

Why am I not surprised?

98 posted on 08/03/2003 7:43:44 AM PDT by Land of the Irish
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To: Land of the Irish
Oh. So you, also, have no problem with giving Holy Communion to those openly and flagrantly living in state of mortal sin.

My problem is more with those who receive communion, openly, and flagrantly, than those who offer it.

Why am I not surprised?

Because, you've obviously become accustomed to my recognition and support of prudence when applied by the Church heirarchy. Sorry, but Archbishop O'Malley's installation mass was not the time or place to promote controversy, not that the issue is controversial to well-informed, faithful Catholics, but controversial nonetheless to the run-of-the mill Catholic, who's conscience has evolved seperately from the mind of the Church.

99 posted on 08/03/2003 8:38:58 AM PDT by St.Chuck
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To: St.Chuck
not that the issue is controversial to well-informed, faithful Catholics, but controversial nonetheless to the run-of-the mill Catholic, who's conscience has evolved seperately from the mind of the Church.

It's very controversial to "well-informed, faithful Catholics". It's also very misleading and confusing to the "run-of-the mill Catholic, who's conscience has evolved seperately from the mind of the Church"; Kerry's an example.

The archbishop should not tacitly let these poor souls continue their ways, with no discipline.

Receiving Holy Communion, while in a state of mortal sin, incurs another mortal sin. It's the archbishop's duty to help these souls get to Heaven; not to turn a blind eye as they continue down the path towards eternal damnation.

That is a bishop's duty: to be a good shepherd; to find that lost sheep and bring it back to the flock.

100 posted on 08/03/2003 9:06:34 AM PDT by Land of the Irish
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