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A Statement from the President Forward in Faith North America
Forward in Faith North America ^ | 8/7/2003 | The Revd Dr David L Moyer SSC

Posted on 08/08/2003 10:29:18 AM PDT by trad_anglican

The revisionist majority has taken the Episcopal Church out of the Christian religion and severed it from any claim to uphold Biblical, Catholic, Apostolic, and Evangelical Faith and Order. This departure, open rebellion, and act of schism is decades old, beginning with the ordination of women to the priesthood and reaching a climax with a mockery of God’s moral order for sexual relationships. False teachers and teachings reign; and the men, women, and children who seek to be obedient to and humble before God and His divine revelation for their health and salvation have been misled and misused by so many of those solemnly entrusted with authority and loving care for Christian souls. The Episcopal Church has ignored and dismissed the counsel of the Archbishop of Canterbury, and has rejected the mind of Anglican Communion. The Episcopal Church as a denomination has willfully created a new religion.


TOPICS: Mainline Protestant
KEYWORDS: anglican; episcopal; helpforepiscopalians
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1 posted on 08/08/2003 10:29:19 AM PDT by trad_anglican
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To: Grampa Dave; AnAmericanMother; sweetliberty; N. Theknow
ping
2 posted on 08/08/2003 10:32:44 AM PDT by trad_anglican
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To: trad_anglican; Ray'sBeth; mel
Thanks ta.

I have pinged Ray'sBeth and mel to this new thread.
3 posted on 08/08/2003 10:36:29 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (I think the Americans are serious. Bush is not like Clinton. I think this is the end," said Uday)
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To: trad_anglican
WWJD?

And we all thought he was livid driving people out of the temple for cheating worshippers by the money-changing for the temple tax.

Once again "His Bride" has been humiliated.

4 posted on 08/08/2003 10:38:53 AM PDT by N. Theknow
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To: trad_anglican; All
Thanks trad_anglican.

Now we have a place to meet and share what is happening and resources during this time of crisis.

We can post what our priests and bishops have to say about the outrage that happened in Mn.

When we do that, we will not only share with our fellow Episcopalians what is happening. We will have storage place for what has happened and the resource sites.
5 posted on 08/08/2003 10:40:11 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (I think the Americans are serious. Bush is not like Clinton. I think this is the end," said Uday)
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To: Grampa Dave; All
Here you go:

http://www.christchurchplano.org/home/documents/robinson.html
6 posted on 08/08/2003 10:46:00 AM PDT by bonfire
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To: Grampa Dave
Christ Episcopal Church Vestry
Statement on Human Sexuality

We, the Vestry of Christ Episcopal Church:
1. Affirm God’s intention that human sexuality be expressed and fulfilled only within faithful monogamous heterosexual marriage relationships (Gen. 2:23-25, Hebrews 13:4, Ephesians 5:2-5).

2. Affirm God’s love for all people. Fear of and hatred toward any group of people is not permissible for Christians. This church, following the example of our Lord, will demonstrate compassion for all (Romans 5:8, John 3:16-17, Matt. 9:10-13).

3. Admit that we are all sinners and fall short of the Glory of God. All of us have gone our own way. None of us is by nature any better than anyone else; it is only through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, by His grace and faith in Him that any of us can be acceptable to God (Romans 3:23, Isaiah 53:6, Eph. 2:8-9, John 3:16-18).

4. Affirm that temptation and inclination toward homosexual activity and other sexual relationships outside marriage is not sinful in and of itself. Rather, the willful pursuit and practice of such activities are sinful (Lev. 18-22, I Cor 6:9-11 NIV, Romans 12:1-2, Eph. 2:1-10).

5. Affirm that God forgives any repentant person of any event, habit or attitude of the past, and to bestow, by grace alone, new life in His Son, Jesus Christ. The church is God’s instrument of healing forgiveness, and will seek to restore all people to unity with God and each other in Christ. (II Cor. 5:17, Romans 12:1-2, Eph. 1:1-10).

6. Reject any position or policy of lifestyle which is contrary to Scripture, and we will lead this congregation, by the Grace of God, always to reject positions on any subject which are contrary to Scripture (Col. 3:5-8 NIV, II Tim. 3:16-17, Matt. 5:17-19).

7. By God’s Grace, will stand firm in these convictions, and will advocate these principles to others within the Episcopal Church and the wider Christian community.

Finally, we make these statements in humility before God, to whom all things are known and from whom no secrets are hid. We call upon the members of Christ Church to pray for all those in Christian leadership, that their and our own views would conform with the will of God as revealed in the Scriptures.
(Adopted 1994. Reaffirmed 1997.)

Scripture Supporting Vestry Statement on Human Sexuality

Genesis 2:23-25
23 The man said, "This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called 'woman,' for she was taken out of man."
24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh. 25 The man and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.

Hebrews 13:4
4Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.

Eph 5:2-5
1Be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children 2and live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God. 3But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. 4Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. 5For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person--such a man is an idolater--has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Romans 5:8
8But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

John 3:16-17
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

Matt 9:10-13
10While Jesus was having dinner at Matthew's house, many tax collectors and "sinners" came and ate with him and his disciples. 11When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, "Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and 'sinners'?" 12On hearing this, Jesus said, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 13But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'[1] For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

Romans 3:23
23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Isaiah 53:6
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to his own way;
and the LORD has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

I Corinthians 6:9-11
9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Romans 12:1-2
1Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God--this is your spiritual act of worship. 2Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is--his good, pleasing and perfect will.

Ephesians 2:1-10
1As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. 4But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved. 6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

II Cor 5:17
17Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!

Col 3:5-8
5Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6Because of these, the wrath of God is coming. 7You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. 8But now you must rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips.

II Tim 3:16
16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

Matthew 5:17-19
17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

Christ Episcopal Church
4550 Legacy Drive
Plano, TX 75025-3885
(972) 618-0222
www.ChristChurchPlano.org


7 posted on 08/08/2003 10:47:04 AM PDT by bonfire
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To: trad_anglican
Go Fr. Moyer Go! whoo-hoo! (sorry, but as a Charimatic Evangelical I have to keep up our reputation among the more staid Anglo-Catholic types...:-))

Fr. Moyer would undoubtedly have already been a bishop in ECUSA if he wasn't so doggone conservative and Biblically orthodox. Hopefully with this reallignment he will finally receive the recognition to which he is more than overdue.
8 posted on 08/08/2003 10:48:03 AM PDT by ahadams2 ( Anglicanism: the next reformation begins NOW)
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To: bonfire
Thank you for sharing this with us. It will be going out on my private E email list before the day is over.
9 posted on 08/08/2003 10:51:28 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (I think the Americans are serious. Bush is not like Clinton. I think this is the end," said Uday)
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To: ahadams2
Please post any sites/links that you have re these alternative Anglican resources. Thank you.
10 posted on 08/08/2003 10:52:54 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (I think the Americans are serious. Bush is not like Clinton. I think this is the end," said Uday)
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To: trad_anglican
SPOTREP - ECUSA
11 posted on 08/08/2003 11:08:38 AM PDT by LiteKeeper
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To: trad_anglican
place marker
12 posted on 08/08/2003 11:12:47 AM PDT by hellinahandcart
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To: hellinahandcart; All
One thing I would like to see on this thread is a list of all the dissident Episcopal groups that already exist, with a short (2-3 sentence) description and a link to each website. A list of links without descriptions takes too long to scroll through -- each entry could look something like this:

Forward in Faith - forwardinfaith north america International loose association of individual parishes, NA branch founded 1999 originally to oppose ordination of women. "Affiliated" parishes drawn from Episcopal Church in the USA (ECUSA) - Anglican Church of Canada (ACC), Anglican Mission in America (AMIA), and Traditional Anglican Church (TAC). "Associated" parishes drawn from Anglican Catholic Church of Canada (ACCC), Anglican Province of America (APA), Independent (Ind), Reformed Episcopal Church (REC), United Anglican Church (UAC), and United Episcopal Church (UEC). Parish directory here.

OK, I've got the ball rolling. If you have information about any of these Episcopal groups mentioned, just copy this message, add your information to it, and re post. It should accumulate with time!

And God defend the right!

St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in the day of Battle; Be our safeguard against the wickedness and snares of the Devil. May God rebuke Him, we humbly pray, and do Thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Host, by the power of God, cast into Hell, Satan and all the other evil spirits, who prowl through the world, seeking the ruin of souls. Amen.

13 posted on 08/08/2003 11:35:58 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (. . . there is nothing new under the sun.)
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To: trad_anglican; bonfire; AnAmericanMother; sweetliberty; N. Theknow; Ray'sBeth; mel
http://www.aplacetostand.org/dspnews.cfm?id=67

Some of you may be aware of the above website and some may not.

It is an excellent site and has a lot of daily data on what happened in the convention and other resources.
14 posted on 08/08/2003 11:49:47 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (I think the Americans are serious. Bush is not like Clinton. I think this is the end," said Uday)
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To: Joe Boucher; FreeRep; TruthNtegrity; Captain Peter Blood; section9; altura; Marysecretary; ...
I just wanted to let you know about this thread. It is a thread for Episcopalians.

We will be posting links, news letters, sermon re the disaster this past week and other items.

If you have anything to post and share with fellow Episcopalians, please post it.

If you are not an Episcopalian, I'm sorry that I bothered you.

Please let other Episcopalians know about this thread.
15 posted on 08/08/2003 11:55:41 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (I think the Americans are serious. Bush is not like Clinton. I think this is the end," said Uday)
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To: Grampa Dave
thanks
16 posted on 08/08/2003 11:58:01 AM PDT by mel
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To: Grampa Dave
Here is a message posted by Martin Tell on another thread, a statement from american anglican.org:

AAC NEWS ALERT: August 8, 2003

The AAC has just published an important document answering the question "What do I do now?" after the grevious decision of the Episcopal Church to depart from the historic Christian faith.

To read the document, please visit: http://www.aplacetostand.org/dspnews.cfm?id=70

URGENT: PLEASE FORWARD THIS EMAIL TO AS MANY OF YOUR EPISCOPALIAN FRIENDS AND FAMILY MEMBERS AS YOU CAN!

-- Statement from Archbishop Bernard Malango, Central Africa (Primate) http://www.aplacetostand.org/dspnews.cfm?id=71

-- Statement from Archbishop Greg Venables, Southern Cone (Primate) http://www.aplacetostand.org/dspnews.cfm?id=73

American Anglican Council's A Place to Stand General Convention 2003

8/08/03

AAC Answers the Question: What do I do now?"

What just happened?

1. The Episcopal Church has departed from Biblical truth, from the historic teaching of the Christian faith and from the near universal consensus of the Christian Church around the world.

2. In the words of the Primate of Kenya, the Episcopal Church has "kicked itself out of the [Anglican] Communion."

3. In the words of the Primate of Nigeria, the 43 bishops who voted no on Gene Robinson "have refused to bow their knees to baal."

4. The Archbishop of Canterbury has called an emergency meeting of the Primates for October 15-16, 2003, the first such meeting in the history of the Anglican Communion.

What do we do next?

1. Rejoice... in all circumstances. God is still on the throne.

2. Repent... for our participation in our Church's sins. Continue in a spirit of repentance, not arrogance, in the days ahead.

3. Forgive... as Jesus did, "Father, forgive them for they do not know what they are doing."

4. Pray... for God's grace to guide and sustain us.

5. Love... those who consider themselves to be homosexual, sharing the transforming power of God.

6. Reject... the unbiblical, unconstitutional actions of General Convention. Repudiate them, disassociate yourself from them. Do this personally, as a parish, as a diocese. Communicate with your rector, your bishop (even those bishops who share your views; they need to be supported!), the Presiding Bishop (815 Second Ave., New York, NY 10017), and the Archbishop of Canterbury (Lambeth Palace, London SE1 7JU, England). Copy the American Anglican Council (1110 Vermont Ave., NW Suite 1180 Washington, DC 20005. lhuntington@americananglican.org).

7. Reach out... to those who are lonely and isolated in unsupportive parishes or dioceses, and those who share our concerns but are not at General Convention; they are likely confused about what happened, unaware of the strength of our coalition, and uninformed about the Primates, the Plano meeting, etc.

8. Redirect... money from structures which support these actions (parish, diocese, national church), and give to parishes, dioceses, organizations and mission agencies which are upholding mainstream Anglicanism, such as the AAC, FiFNA, and Ekklesia.

Do's and Don'ts

1. Do NOT say you are leaving the Episcopal Church.

2. Do NOT say you are breaking Communion with your bishop.

3. DO say you are NOT leaving the Anglican Communion.

4. Do NOT sue for your property or take unilateral action.

5. DO hold on until Plano.

6. DO give the orthodox bishops and archbishops six months to achieve a framework for dramatic realignment.

What is Plano and what will happen there?

1. It is a gathering of bishops, clergy and lay leaders who embrace biblical faith and teaching and who reject the actions of General Convention, to be held October 7-9, 2003 at Christ Church, Plano, Texas.

2. We will pray, worship, study the Word and preach the Gospel.

3. We will hear reports on actions of specially-convened diocesan conventions.

4. We will prepare a detailed petition and proposal for the Archbishop of Canterbury and the Primates, who will meet October 15-16, 2003

5. We will offer training and specific help with canonical, legal and financial issues.

6. We will build relationships and organize our network.

. . . sounds like a good plan to me!
17 posted on 08/08/2003 12:01:01 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (. . . there is nothing new under the sun.)
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To: AnAmericanMother; trad_anglican; bonfire; sweetliberty; N. Theknow; Ray'sBeth; mel
http://www.aplacetostand.org/dspnews.cfm?id=70

Thanks for posting this great advice.

Last night I couldn't sleep and this link had been forwarded to me.

After I read it, I knew that Free Republic, the internet and our email lists would be enable us to battle this crime against our church.

Every Episcopalian who is hurting from this homosexual rape of our church, should read this to know that they are not alone in this battle.

Thanks again for posting this tremendous and uplifting message at this time of crisis.

http://www.aplacetostand.org/dspnews.cfm?id=70
18 posted on 08/08/2003 12:20:11 PM PDT by Grampa Dave (I think the Americans are serious. Bush is not like Clinton. I think this is the end," said Uday)
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To: trad_anglican; AnAmericanMother; sweetliberty; N. Theknow; Ray'sBeth; mel; hellinahandcart; ...
Here is the link to the Episcopal Ping list compiled by trad anglican.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/960397/posts?page=146

If you want off the list please let trad anglican know, or if you want to be added please let trad anglican know.

Here is the Episcopal/Anglican pinglist as of 2:30 CDT on Friday, August 8. If you want to be added or removed, please let trad_Anglican know.

Grampa Dave
AnAmericanMother
sweetliberty
N. Theknow
Ray'sBeth
mel
Hellinahandcart
Darlin'
Martin Tell
Joe Boucher
FreeRep
TruthNtegrity
Captain Peter Blood
section9
altura
Marysecretary
johnb838
knak
yoe
Outlaw76
Credo
Dems_R_Losers
Irene Adler
q_an_a
TexanToTheCore
trad_anglican


146 posted on 08/08/2003 12:32 PM PDT by trad_anglican



19 posted on 08/08/2003 12:44:34 PM PDT by Grampa Dave (I think the Americans are serious. Bush is not like Clinton. I think this is the end," said Uday)
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To: trad_anglican
ping

I grew up in the Episcopal Church.
I was an Acolyte or altar boy for 5 years.
20 posted on 08/08/2003 1:33:20 PM PDT by FreeRep (Proud to be American: John 3:16)
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To: Grampa Dave
Thanks to the maker of this list, and those posting.Our church has just posted our response, which may be viewed at http://www.resurrection.org/question.htm . I think we need to be in deep prayer as we contemplate our next steps.
21 posted on 08/08/2003 1:37:40 PM PDT by Ray'sBeth
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To: FreeRep
I grew up in the Episcopal Church. I was an Acolyte or altar boy for 5 years.

Same here, though I still do acolyte duties from time to time. I have been in the "continuing" Anglican church since 1978.

22 posted on 08/08/2003 1:44:58 PM PDT by trad_anglican
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To: trad_anglican
Please add me to your ping list. Thanks.
23 posted on 08/08/2003 2:19:24 PM PDT by bonfire
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To: Grampa Dave
Grampa, I was in on the AAC in one of its original formation meetings.

Parishes cannot linger waiting for this Plano conference.

There can be no accomodation with the liberals.

24 posted on 08/08/2003 2:27:53 PM PDT by Credo
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To: trad_anglican
A statement from american anglican.org:

1. Do NOT say you are leaving the Episcopal Church
3. DO say you are NOT leaving the Anglican Communion.

Respectfully Disagree
25 posted on 08/08/2003 3:50:25 PM PDT by FreeRep (Proud to be American: John 3:16)
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To: Ray'sBeth
Thanks for posting this excellent response.
26 posted on 08/08/2003 3:56:51 PM PDT by Grampa Dave (I think the Americans are serious. Bush is not like Clinton. I think this is the end," said Uday)
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To: FreeRep
A statement from american anglican.org:

1. Do NOT say you are leaving the Episcopal Church

3. DO say you are NOT leaving the Anglican Communion.

Respectfully Disagree

I understand where they're coming from. This is about property. Why should faithful Episcopalians just leave, and leave the considerable wealth and property of the church in the hands of the apostates?

I think a good argument can be made that that's what the liberals in the denomination want -- to be left in possession of the field, with the considerable property that's been built up by generations of the faithful.

Property in the Episcopal church is generally owned by the bishop in trust for the diocese. The national church IIRC doesn't own anything and is essentially an administrative body. At the very least the bishops who voted "NO" should be given time to make a good legal effort to bring their diocese into a "reformed" ECUSA intact.

27 posted on 08/08/2003 5:12:17 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (. . . there is nothing new under the sun.)
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To: LiteKeeper
?
28 posted on 08/08/2003 6:27:36 PM PDT by StAthanasiustheGreat (Vocatus Atque Non Vocatus Deus Aderit)
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To: All
Continuing the contact list . . .

Anglican Province of Christ the King - website here

Diocese (now Province) formed in 1977 in response to prayer book revision of 1976. Have own bishop, ordained by a retired ECUSA bishop. Parish directory here

Forward in Faith - website here

International loose association of individual parishes, NA branch founded 1999 originally to oppose ordination of women. "Affiliated" parishes drawn from Episcopal Church in the USA (ECUSA) - Anglican Church of Canada (ACC), Anglican Mission in America (AMIA), and Traditional Anglican Church (TAC). "Associated" parishes drawn from Anglican Catholic Church of Canada (ACCC), Anglican Province of America (APA), Independent (Ind), Reformed Episcopal Church (REC), United Anglican Church (UAC), and United Episcopal Church (UEC). Parish directory here.

29 posted on 08/08/2003 6:38:04 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (. . . there is nothing new under the sun.)
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To: NWU Army ROTC
I am a retired Army officer (artillery, MI, and chaplain). I have the privilege of teaching several classes in Colorado Springs to high school, college, and adults on comparative worldviews (biblical vs secular). As I read the various threads, some impress me as good for illustrating different worldviews. So, using some Army terminology, I mark "incidents" as "SPOTREPS" (spot report) and "descriptions of the current world scene" as "SITREPs" (situation reports). INTREP (Intelliegence Report) provides information of an event involving those of the "opposition;" INTSUM (Intelligence Summary) provides more general information. When I get home, I download these SPOTREPs and SITREPs to a database for future use.

Does that help?

30 posted on 08/08/2003 6:52:51 PM PDT by LiteKeeper
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To: AnAmericanMother
Excellent Mark Steyn column on the state of the Episcopal Church: Anglicans seem to take a sacrament as whatever turns you on.

He gets in some zingers, as per always.

31 posted on 08/09/2003 4:51:30 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (. . . there is nothing new under the sun.)
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To: Grampa Dave
Thanks for organizing the list. What a terrible mix religion AND politics. We can't have dinner too that would really be the cause of great emotional havic.
32 posted on 08/09/2003 5:03:09 AM PDT by q_an_a
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To: LiteKeeper
As a future military officer, I should have been a little quicker and indentified that. Definitly familiar with SITREP, just not SPOTREP, thank you, I like it.
33 posted on 08/09/2003 6:04:09 AM PDT by StAthanasiustheGreat (Vocatus Atque Non Vocatus Deus Aderit)
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To: q_an_a
Actually that has been the problem, the banning of politics at the parish level.

Conservatives can't plead their case, but it is okay to bring enviral whackos in to plea their case. It is okay for a so called homeless advocates to plea their cases. Yet if we plead our side, that was considered to be political and a no no due to our non profit status.

Even with a conservative priest, the game has been stacked against a diocese if the bishop was left wing. Our priest got flack for having the names of relatives and friends involved in the Afghan invasion on a prayer list for each service. He stood his ground. In the Iraq war, we had 3 men who were sons or sons in law in harms way. He bought 3 special candles out of his own pocket, and those 3 men received our prayers during the prayers during each service. He lit the candles before each service and had the accolytes extinguish them after each service. He still got some flack from the left wingers of the church.

So like the cultural war that our nation battles each day with one arm tied behind its back with the left wing, we have had the same problem in about every parish for the past 3 decades.
34 posted on 08/09/2003 8:48:43 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (I think the Americans are serious. Bush is not like Clinton. I think this is the end," said Uday)
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To: trad_anglican; AnAmericanMother; sweetliberty; N. Theknow; Ray'sBeth; mel; hellinahandcart
The American Anglican Council has just posted a signable
"Statement of Repudiation and Disassociation from the Actions of the 74th General Convention of the Episcopal Church."

To read and sign the statement online, please visit:

http://www.americananglican.org/petitions/Petition.cfm?petitionID=7

You can also print out a version of this statement that can
be distributed in your parish. To read and print the parish
version, please visit:
http://www.americananglican.org/News/News.cfm?ID=661&c=21
35 posted on 08/09/2003 9:13:10 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (I think the Americans are serious. Bush is not like Clinton. I think this is the end," said Uday)
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To: Grampa Dave
Thanks Grampa. I normally don't sign online petitions and such but made an exception in this case.
36 posted on 08/09/2003 9:48:28 AM PDT by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: sweetliberty
Thanks, ping your E friends on Free Republic and discuss this with your local E friends.
37 posted on 08/09/2003 9:58:59 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (I think the Americans are serious. Bush is not like Clinton. I think this is the end," said Uday)
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To: bonfire
Seems to me you have more in common with the Catholic Church. Please excuse my ignorance on this, as I am neither an Episcopalian nor an Anglican, but, wouldn't a change in apostolic teaching be a rejection of sacred scripture?

The document issued by the Catholic Church clearly spells out the scriptural references for the institution of marriage and the rejection of homosexual unions. Here are some extracts:

In the first place, man, the image of God, was created "male and female" (Gen 1:27). Men and women are equal as persons and complementary as male and female. Sexuality is something that pertains to the physical-biological realm and has also been raised to a new level — the personal level — where nature and spirit are united.

Marriage is instituted by the Creator as a form of life in which a communion of persons is realized involving the use of the sexual faculty. "That is why a man leaves his father and mother and clings to his wife and they become one flesh" (Gen 2:24).

Third, God has willed to give the union of man and woman a special participation in his work of creation. Thus, he blessed the man and the woman with the words "Be fruitful and multiply" (Gen 1:28). Therefore, in the Creator's plan, sexual complementarity and fruitfulness belong to the very nature of marriage.

Sacred Scripture condemns homosexual acts "as a serious depravity... (cf. Rom 1:24-27; 1 Cor 6:10; 1 Tim 1:10). Nonetheless, according to the teaching of the Church, men and women with homosexual tendencies "must be accepted with respect, compassion and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided".7

CONSIDERATIONS REGARDING PROPOSALS TO GIVE LEGAL RECOGNITION TO UNIONS BETWEEN HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS

How does this Episcopalian group of homosexual supporters justify their position? Holy Scripture is complete, there are no new books with new or different messages. What am I missing here?

38 posted on 08/09/2003 10:15:35 AM PDT by NYer (Laudate Dominum)
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To: NYer
Your questions are the same as ours. To date, I still haven't seen any argument justifying this travesty. This is the second question I'm planning on asking my priest right after: Is the Bible our authority?

If I hear "diversity" "inclusion" or "big tent" from him I plan on smacking him senseless. Church tomorrow should be quite interesting.....

39 posted on 08/09/2003 10:51:03 AM PDT by bonfire
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To: NYer
What am I missing here?

Their utter determination to have their sin acclaimed by one and all as a virtue. To do that, they have to deconstruct the church AND God.

Which will be good for the communists, too. No standards, no morals, nothing eternal, nothing anyone can even count on from day to day.

40 posted on 08/09/2003 11:11:00 AM PDT by hellinahandcart
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To: NYer
The Archbishop of Canterbury's position is that it's only wrong for HETEROSEXUAL men to engage in homosexual activity. These guys are worse than Clinton in the truth department. If you don't believe me, go here.

There are priests and parishioners in your church spreading this pernicious stuff right now, you can bet on it. I hope your next Pope is African, or you could be in our shoes sooner than you think...

41 posted on 08/09/2003 11:25:08 AM PDT by hellinahandcart
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To: hellinahandcart; TheCrusader; Coleus; Salvation
There are priests and parishioners in your church spreading this pernicious stuff right now, you can bet on it. I hope your next Pope is African, or you could be in our shoes sooner than you think...

Yes, it is true that there are those in the catholic church who would love nothing more than to shift the church to the left but .... it ain't gonna happen. The Magisterium MUST follow Scripture and the Apostles. Christ instructed the Church to preach everything he taught (Matt. 28:19–20) and promised the protection of the Holy Spirit to "guide you into all the truth" (John 16:13). That mandate and that promise guarantee the Church will never fall away from his teachings (Matt. 16:18, 1 Tim. 3:15), even if individual Catholics might.

"Jesus said his Church would be "the light of the world." He then noted that "a city set on a hill cannot be hid" (Matt. 5:14). This means his Church is a visible organization. It must have characteristics that clearly identify it and that distinguish it from other churches. Jesus promised, "I will build my Church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" (Matt. 16:18). This means that his Church will never be destroyed and will never fall away from him. His Church will survive until his return.

Among the Christian churches, only the Catholic Church has existed since the time of Jesus. Every other Christian church is an offshoot of the Catholic Church. The Eastern Orthodox churches broke away from unity with the pope in 1054. The Protestant churches were established during the Reformation, which began in 1517. (Most of today’s Protestant churches are actually offshoots of the original Protestant offshoots.)

Only the Catholic Church existed in the tenth century, in the fifth century, and in the first century, faithfully teaching the doctrines given by Christ to the apostles, omitting nothing. The line of popes can be traced back, in unbroken succession, to Peter himself. This is unequaled by any institution in history."

Interestingly enough, one of the Cardinals considered most likely to succeed Pope John Paul II is Francis Cardinal Arinze from Nigeria. Like Joh Paul II, he is a conservative.


The Archbishop of Canterbury, George Carey, chats with Francis Cardinal Arinze, president of the Vatican's Pontifical Council for Inter-Religious Dialogue. [ photo - David Harris ] Anglican Journal

42 posted on 08/09/2003 12:24:32 PM PDT by NYer (Laudate Dominum)
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To: bonfire; hellinahandcart; sockmonkey; B-Chan; TheCrusader; Grampa Dave
Is the Bible our authority?

My heart and prayers are sincerely with ALL of you! Who could ever have imagined that the enemy of faithful christians would be other "christians" (in quotes because I question their christianity). Scripture can NEVER be rewritten! It then comes down to interpretation and what is meant by 'this' said in 'that' context, etc. I feel helpless as do all of you but trust that God in His divine Mercy will guide you on your journey.

The Anglican Church is very close in its belief system to the Catholic Church. It has retained a rich and beautiful heritage. So much so, that several years ago, a group approached Rome with the intent of realigning themselves to the Catholic Church. Here is a small portion of their story:

"Following the 1976 Episcopal Church Convention, a number of catholic-minded Episcopalians gathered together to explore ways to approach Rome, and the Society of St. Augustine was founded for this purpose. The San Antonio group formed St. Anthony’s Church. The laity contacted Fr. Phillips in Rhode Island, who came to San Antonio with his family in January of 1982. Prior to that, in 1979, a formal request and proposal was made to the Holy Father through the National Conference of Catholic Bishops. In June 1980, the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith issued the Holy Father’s “Pastoral Provision,” which granted the petitioners’ request: “... a common identity reflecting certain elements of their own heritage.” [Art. #84, “More Vatican II Documents” ed. Austin Flanney, O.P.]. These people, who formerly constituted St. Anthony’s Anglican Catholic Church, were received on the Solemnity of the Assumption of our Blessed Mother, 15 August 1983. "

Here in the Religion Forum, there are several members of the Anglican Use Catholic Church. I hope you will take a moment to visit the parish of one poster. It is absolutely magnificent!! Would that there were more of these in the US. Presently, there are only 6 Anglican Use churches - 4 in TX, one in NC and one in AL.

OUR LADY OF THE ATONEMENT


Constructed in 1986, the church building of Our Lady of the Atonement is built to resemble a medieval English church, while benefiting from modern construction.  In keeping with Catholic tradition and biblical expectation, the consecrated altar within the Sanctuary faces East.  Given the recent trend in American church architecture, parishioners genuinely appreciate the beauty of this church, and the beauty it inspires. 

43 posted on 08/09/2003 12:52:56 PM PDT by NYer (Laudate Dominum)
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To: bonfire
Church tomorrow should be quite interesting.....

I am meeting my aunt and uncle for the nine o'clock tommorrow. I don't think I'll hear anything momentous just yet (although you never know, our rector was so upset about one bishop's mischaracterization of Jesus that he actually turned purple for a second when he mentioned it), but I want to see if there's anything unusual in the air. Like a sudden high attendance in August while the church's air-conditioning is being replaced...

I'll give a report after brunch tomorrow, I think we all should.

44 posted on 08/09/2003 4:13:52 PM PDT by hellinahandcart
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To: NYer
That's an old photo, from back in the days when we still had an Archbishop. :-(
45 posted on 08/09/2003 4:15:32 PM PDT by hellinahandcart
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To: hellinahandcart
That's an old photo, from back in the days when we still had an Archbishop. :-(/i>

????

46 posted on 08/09/2003 4:57:28 PM PDT by NYer (Laudate Dominum)
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To: NYer
Archbishop Carey retired last year and was replaced by Rowan Williams, the one who thinks homosexuality doesn't bother God as long as only homosexuals are doing it.
47 posted on 08/09/2003 5:04:23 PM PDT by hellinahandcart
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To: NYer
Thanks for your kind words.

The operative words are other "Christians!"

Most of these homosexual predators and their main line supporters are CINO's. Christians in Name Only. They are not Christians.
48 posted on 08/09/2003 5:14:08 PM PDT by Grampa Dave (I think the Americans are serious. Bush is not like Clinton. I think this is the end," said Uday)
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To: Grampa Dave; hellinahandcart
Most of these homosexual predators and their main line supporters are CINO's. Christians in Name Only. They are not Christians.

Grampa, we are under attack!! Call them what you want, these CINO's are fully aligned with the homosexual agenda, fueled by their pathetic attempt to have their lifestyle adopted as normal and their message fed to the masses via the media. The UN has now taken a stance in full support. The election of Vicki Gene Robinson as bishop 'legitimizes' their vociferous denouncement of ALL conservative religious belief based on scripture.

The morning following his approval, I turned on NBC where Matt Lauer asked the 'soft' questions, switched to NBC where they followed the same 'soft' line of questioning. Fully expecting that CBS would follow suit, I hesitated before switching to that channel - BIG MISTAKE!! When it came on, Robinson was answering what I presume was a 'hard' question from Harry Smith. The only part of his response that I caught was this ... "they were not aware of this in those days". Aware of what??? Homosexuality???? Sure they were!! Homosexuality, like prostitution, has been with us as long as the cockroach. What was the question and what was Robinson's verbatim response?

Someone on another thread noted that if Robinson had divorced his wife and moved in with another woman, under the guidelines of the Episcopal church, he would never have been elected to bishop. Is that true?

Instead, he and his wife held an "un"exchanging of rings and vows in church!! What the heck is that? He then shacks up with a man whom he regards as his partner and for this he is rewarded with a bishop's mitre (do you also use the mitre as a symbol of office?).

How clever is Satan!!! He is attacking from within.

49 posted on 08/09/2003 6:32:38 PM PDT by NYer (Laudate Dominum)
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To: Grampa Dave
Please add me to your list. --MM
50 posted on 08/09/2003 6:39:34 PM PDT by mustapha mond (Let not your heart be troubled)
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