Church faces serious moral problems, according to Rome director of Human Life International

Catholic Herald ^ | Aug. 21, 2003 | Candy Czernicki

[Aliska]

Are you sure of that?

Yes, but it's just my opinion. Just because the form and/or structure of the mass changed should have nothing to do with basic moral teachings which are timeless. Most people can grasp that.

People are no longer living their lives based on Faith and reliance on divine providence.

Why should they? They see that priests and the hierarchy have all their earthly needs tended to by the people and contributions to the church and that it has gone on for centuries. Ordinary people feel more of a dependence on God despite the current culture.

Of all the changes to the Faith, all of which certainly are significant, isn't the change to the Mass the biggest one of all?

The change may be significant, but I maintain that people are more prone to think for themselves and not accept everything blindly as they were formerly prone to do. I believe that it is due to ordinary catholics getting educated which was not an option for a large number of them until this past century.

Some of it is probably due more to their mingling with the evil protestants in society and the fact that if the church had its way, all means of contraception would be outlawed or suppressed.

I personally believe that they (laity) would rather strike a balance between a more meaningful existence for their families in this life rather than placing all their hopes on the next one.

If the church would address the real problem about how people are supposed to support a family of eight, ten or more children in our modern society in a more practical way rather than blandly telling them to rely on providence when they don't have to themselves, people still would probably want to limit their families, but things would be more honest that way.

People in first-world countries are starting to think for themselves and take charge of that part of their lives they can control. That is the root of the problem.

[ninenot]

What's REALLY significant about this (thanks for the post) is that the Milwaukee Catholic Herald assigned a reporter who actually wrote a story that was not dripping with putdowns.

This would be the influence of the new Archbishop and his new Editor of the Herald....

Straws in the wind.

[ninenot]

charismatic, opus dei, influence

First time I have EVER heard that the Opies and the Charos are the same.

Have you checked with either group?

[ninenot]

I assume that prior to VII, the Church taught that all Jews were going to Hell. Please provide documentation to demonstrate this.

[ninenot]

I don't think that EWTN/Angelica are interested in the Adoremus 'reform of the reform' per se. There's something else that's wacky over there, and I can't put my finger on it.

But it IS true that EWTN was given strict orders to use the NO only, and in a fashion which is 'best practice' (i.e., comporting with the rubrics.) There was a minor brouhaha about this when EWTN built its new chapel...

Not hard to understand why. The Diocese to which she belongs can be, ah, bribed by certain well-endowed Southern California Archdioceses headed by a fellow named Roger Mahony.

What DID happen was that after Mahoney and Mother A. got into that fight, Roger tried to put her off the air, nationally, and substitute his own version--at that time, it would have been the Mahony/Bernardin network. Failed--EWTN worked through the viewers and local cable franchises retained her programming, by and large.

A new Bishop was appointed to her Diocese in the meantime, and they reached an understanding. She wouldn't get "in the face" of Big Guys, and they wouldn't try to crush her. Along the way, they compromised on the Liturgy. She got to use 'best practices,' but no Tridentine stuff.

[Thorondir]

What is a Black Mass?

[Thorondir]

arrogance, pride, haughtiness, superiority, over-confidence, superiority, condecension, self-importance, supercilliousness. Need I say more.

Sure. How about a coherent English sentence that actually refers to someting in a discernable way?

[Land of the Irish]

Lex orandi, lex credendi.

[Land of the Irish]

Not all of them - Christ for one.

Also, St. Joseph and the Blessed Mother.

[saradippity]

If the mayor of Milwaukee wants to see the governor of Wisconsin,he will talk to the governor face to face and his delegation will be behind him. He will not give his back to the governor and talk to the delegation.

The implications of that statement are staggering,I think it gets to the heart of the matter.

[Smocker]

No, I stated facts. If a convert wants to subvert the rights of Catholic homeschool parents, at the same time if they want to blatantly ignore Church teaching when it comes to the proper Christian Education of Youth, and then wants to proceed to wax eloquent on EWTN on how to be Catholic, I, as a Catholic would have to wonder, What are they up to? Further, If the facts of their behaviour offend you then take it up with them, not with me, I just pointed out what they engage in.
ON the other hand, if a convert wants to live as a good and faithful Catholic, then by all means I would applaud them, and let me assure you that there are plenty of Catholic converts in the public arena who are terrific apologists for the Catholic Faith.
Public behaviours that influence other Catholics on the part of either craddle or convert Catholics should be disclosed. In the situations I was describing, it has been mostly converts who have been conducting themselves in behaviour that is cause for concern and criticsm.

[Thorondir]

By a Priest? When the heck would that happen? And I very seriously doubt Jesus Christ is going to be fooled into consecrating the host in such an instance.

Why do you even bring such a thing up? Are you comparing the NO mass to a Black Mass? What's your point?

[ThomasMore]

Using your logic, then, I suppose a gay, hockey, clown Mass is spiritually enriching?

I didn't say that! And that's not my logic, it's yours. First off, I've never seen a gay, hockey, clown Mass. Do you go to one frequently. Only teasing! The unfortunate thing is no matter how reverent the Novus Ordo Mass is, to some people, probably you as well, it can never be spiritually enriching. Go to the the Latin Indult Mass then. But don't denigate every N.O. simply because it is N.O.

[Smocker]

I did not refer to the groups as opies or charos. That is not keeping any discussion on a civil level. Please don't add disrespect to the subject.
I was using a comma in the sentence to separate the different groups, I was not thinking of them as being one and the same, although, there may be here or there, individuals who are members of both types of group.
No implying here either.

[Smocker]

I don't think you should assume anything, I think you should do a little research on the subject to come up with concrete definitions of what the Church has taught prior to Vatican II.

[Smocker]

Thanks for the clarification. Now, what do you think about HLI selling Focus on the Family books, and Dr. Dobson books? I thought Dr. Dobson was in favor of abortion under certain specific circumstances. I may be mistaken about this, but it was the case the last time I checked, which I admit was some time ago.

[ninenot]

SOrry--that's YOUR job. You are the one who effectively charged that prior to VatII the Church taught that all Jews were going to Hell. That means that the Church taught that the Old Covenant was invalidated by the New Covenant.

Please provide documentation or retract your statement.

[Smocker]

re: family size

It may not all have something to do with the Mass, but I think it does have something with to do with the concept I have increasingly encountered whereby any document on Catholic faith or morals which existed prior to Vatican II is ignored, however, Vatican II documents in all their fuzzy glory are constantly quoted, although they themselves are not binding on the faithful.
The other thing is it has to do with is priestly formation.