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Top Ten Questions the TRADS and the NEOS Have for Wilton Gregory and Company at the Sept 8 Meeting

Posted on 08/24/2003 7:34:50 PM PDT by boromeo

This is serious. The TRADS and the NEOS on Free Republic are full of good humor and grace, so I have a challenge. I would like to attempt to compile two top ten lists of discussion points, one from a TRAD and one from a NEO perspective with questions for the 'conservative' Catholic conference coming up with the Bishops (Gregory, etc.) set up by Deal Hudson. Sorry dissenters, you have to sit this one out. It would also be nice if we could arrive at a FREEREPUBLIC chat room top five list where TRADS and NEOS can prove that yes, dog-gone-it, sometimes, we can all just get along and agree. Or maybe not. Anyway, no fair crossing lines and mucking with each other's lists. Please limit your posts to 10 ideas, and send them to the group or to me privately. You have to mark clearly if you're suggestions are TRAD or NEO. All entries marked confidential will be kept confidential. Keep your suggestions compact TRADS. NEOS, points are deducted for using the word 'spirit.' Have fun!


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1 posted on 08/24/2003 7:34:51 PM PDT by boromeo
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To: boromeo
What's a Neo?
2 posted on 08/24/2003 7:38:24 PM PDT by St.Chuck
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To: boromeo
I am a Catholic.

I have one question. If there were no USCCB, would you Teach, Rule and Sanctify with greater courage, force and conviction?

3 posted on 08/24/2003 7:48:53 PM PDT by As you well know...
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To: boromeo
Do you have connections?

I vote for a seriously generous allowance of the Indult Traditional Mass. None of this, "get a petition with X # of names" or "nobody wants it" (yeah right), or placing it in the far regions of the diocese. I also vote for greater support and establishment of Traditional parishes (think Christ the King and FSSP).

I'll think about some others.
4 posted on 08/24/2003 8:44:49 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah ("The point to remember is that what the government gives, it must first take away."- John S. Coleman)
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To: boromeo
One question: Why so much experimentation by local bishops and priests after thirty years?
5 posted on 08/24/2003 9:00:16 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: boromeo
1) ask why the broad who started the hate fest against Mel Gibson (BOYS) wasn't fired for a) pretending she and her friends represented the USSB and b) for being active in the anti church modernists who are undermining the church.

2) ask them to stop altergirls. The feminization of the mass where a priest is the center of attention and is surrounded by ladies and girls is embarassing. Mass is about worshipping Christ, not about a fun filled celebration of selfhood.

3) ask them to encourage Eucharistic adoration.

4) ask them to fire PC church bureacrats who undermine the average Catholic. This includes PC nuns who teach "liberation theology" and the "need" for "womenpriests" to our confirmation classes to the gay bureaucrats who allowed their pedophile friends to go to counselling and be declared "cured" over and over again...if you don't know who they are, I suggest you go to your nearby gay bar and look for familiar faces...

5) ask them to correct the nuns (like the Erie Benedictines) who oppose the pope openly in the press. Yes, I know that some of them are outside the local bishop's line of authority, but you can still criticize them publically and even remove them from serving in your diocesan organizations. Better a bible believing Baptist than a "nun" who is into "womanchurch".

6) Ask the bishops to get better press officers who can oppose the soundbites of the media.

7) Ask the bishops why they put out a lot of crap about helping the poor, but don't put out a lot about becoming holy.

8) stress personal responsibility and repentence. A lot of social problems would be solved if people followed the ten commandments in their own family.

9) Ask them why they have been silent on JP2's "theology of the body". They not only have been silent about the promicuity of their congregations, (out of a "don't be judgemental" attitude) but they fail to preach that the TRUE approach to sexuality leads to personal happiness and fulfillment...

10) ask them to speak English. I am sick and tired of preaching that I have trouble understanding, because they use jargon and PC cliches.
6 posted on 08/25/2003 4:49:20 AM PDT by LadyDoc (AND)
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To: boromeo
I'm not sure what a Neo is, but since I'm not a Trad, I suppose I am Neo.

1)When is something concrete going to be done about the gays in the hierarchy and the priesthood? We've got Rigali coming to Philadelphia and he hasn't said whether he will continue to disallow gays at our seminary. 1a)When will the Church admit that it has never been a pedophilia crisis, but a chicken-hawking one? The young priests here are excellent and quite frankly I'm frightened that something will be done that will start the gays coming in.

2)How are the so called Catholic colleges going to be made to fall in line with Church teaching? Don't let them call themselves Catholic when they're not.

3)When is something going to be done about pro-abortion politicians calling themselves Catholic? There is a fine opportunity to make the Democrats look like the minions of Satan that they are by highlighting those who will not confirm practicing Catholics to federal judgeships.

4)Why are children not being taught in the Catholic schools that they should go to weekly confession?

5)Why is Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament not mandatory in every parish across the country?

I think a lot of the other problems would clear themselves up if #5 were mandated.

Like LadyDoc I am tired of Churchspeak and want to hear their answers in plain English.
7 posted on 08/25/2003 5:55:10 AM PDT by old and tired
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Explain your asinine decision to select CINO unborn baby murdering advocate Leon Panetta to serve on the NRB?
8 posted on 08/25/2003 6:41:45 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: boromeo
Ping for place.
9 posted on 08/25/2003 10:02:08 AM PDT by saradippity
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To: boromeo
Ask them if they have lost their faith. Sometimes it sure seems that way.
Ask them to be more courageous in standing up for Church teaching and not just the politically correct issues.
Ask them why they turn a blind eye when some priests teach heresy.
Ask them to please use their influence to restore dignity, beauty and reverence to the liturgy, and yes, a more generous application of the indult would be greatly appreciated.
Tell them to please take a close look at what activities so called "Catholic" universities are engaged in. Do they have no concerns for the souls of the students and for the parents who have sacrificed tremendously, thinking that their sons and daughters would receive an authentic Catholic education?

I guess you could call me a neo with trad leanings.
10 posted on 08/25/2003 10:29:07 AM PDT by k omalley
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To: old and tired
3)When is something going to be done about pro-abortion politicians calling themselves Catholic?

I would rank this the #1 issue making Catholics look bad today.
11 posted on 08/25/2003 11:24:32 AM PDT by jocon307 (Boy, even I am surprised at myself!)
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To: boromeo; NYer; sitetest; sinkspur; maximillian; Hermann the Cherusker; jwalsh07; sandyeggo; ...
I think this is an important thread. For all we know, Boromeo may be Deal Hudson himself. Anyway, we know that prominent Catholics do check this board. (Remember the whole Popcek thing?) There is a good chance that these lists could make it to that meeting. It would be a shame if they got there without your input. Please put your ten cents in and encourage other Catholic Freepers as well.
12 posted on 08/25/2003 2:04:18 PM PDT by old and tired
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To: jocon307
**I would rank this the #1 issue making Catholics look bad today. **

You may be right, but personally I would rank # 1 the way the bishops handled the whole gay priest thing, and that ridiculous sham of a meeting they had in Dallas.
13 posted on 08/25/2003 2:08:13 PM PDT by old and tired
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To: boromeo
As ThomasMore posted somewhere, "Do the red, read the black, ". If nothing else, this would help eliminate some of the most annoying abuses at many N.O. Masses.

Also, petitioning for “Peace and Justice” each Sunday should be at least prefaced with a petition for “Faith and Obedience”. If our clergy focused more on faith and obedience, peace and justice would be natural fruits.

I know that the latter request isn’t something for the USCCB but it’s been bugging me for some time.

Bump for LadyDoc and Old and tired, great lists for the Bishops

14 posted on 08/25/2003 2:35:51 PM PDT by conservonator (Bump for LadyDoc and Ole and tired, great lists for the Bishops)
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To: A.A. Cunningham
Explain your asinine decision to select CINO unborn baby murdering advocate Leon Panetta to serve on the NRB?

Good question!

15 posted on 08/25/2003 2:57:50 PM PDT by Akron Al
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To: boromeo; NYer; sitetest; sinkspur; maximillian; Hermann the Cherusker; jwalsh07; sandyeggo; ...
"There is a good chance that these lists could make it to that meeting. It would be a shame if they got there without your input. Please put your ten cents in and encourage other Catholic Freepers as well.

I'll be attending this meeting, and your collective input here will definitely help me as I prepare for the event. Thanks for starting this thread!
16 posted on 08/25/2003 3:02:35 PM PDT by Patrick Madrid
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To: boromeo; american colleen; sinkspur; Lady In Blue; Salvation; Polycarp; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; ...
I'll begin by pinging my list. This is one opportunity we don't want to miss out on.
17 posted on 08/25/2003 3:31:05 PM PDT by NYer (Laudate Dominum)
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To: LadyDoc; old and tired; k omalley
What you all said. Excellent points. Ditto. V's wife.
18 posted on 08/25/2003 3:47:11 PM PDT by ventana (or you could just say it's only hypothetical)
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To: Akron Al; Alberta's Child; Aloysius; AniGrrl; Antoninus; As you well know...; BBarcaro; ...
PING
19 posted on 08/25/2003 3:48:14 PM PDT by Loyalist
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To: old and tired
"Boromeo may be Deal Hudson?"

Boromeo is not, I repeat not, Deal Hudson, nor is he laboring under any hidden motives. Boromeo's top questions are:

why the continued hostility to the Latin Mass;

why do so many known gay priests remain in parishes all over this country;

why an internationally known conservative US Cardinal recently remarked that he knew several homosexual priests who were fine pastors;

what is being done about the growing gulf between traditional Catholics and so-called "neo" Catholics;

why all the pro-aborts on the NRB abuse panel? Leon Panetta? Give me a break!;

what in God's name is NRB chairman doing appearing at the Call To Action Conf in Nov. as the keynote speaker (follow-up, are all bishops equally stupid, or some more stupid than others?)

Let the thread roll on all the way to Deal Hudson's front door, and if he is going to continue to posture as a conservative, I hope he has the decency to bring up the concerns of conservative Catholics who are tired of being treated like second class citizens.

20 posted on 08/25/2003 3:51:29 PM PDT by boromeo
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To: old and tired
I don't even know where to begin. One of the problems is that the Church has lost an entire generation (perhaps even two) to bad teaching, and right now, it's necessary to start at the beginning and build the whole thing up again.

So I'll put in my vote for sound teaching. And its got to be AGRESSIVE: that is, send out truth-filled missionaries to every parish in every diocese to really teach Catholic doctrine to children and adults, regardless of how mad it makes Fr. Bruce Limpwrist and Sr. Snowflake Wannabeapriest. Individual parishes and priests teach and prach whatever they please, and most of it bears precious little resemblance to Christian doctrine.

Also, permit the Tridentine Rite freely, as it is supposed to be permitted. After all, if "nobody" is going to go to it anyway, what are Father and Sister afraid of? Hah!
21 posted on 08/25/2003 3:54:48 PM PDT by livius
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To: boromeo
1. Ask for the resignation of Cardinal Mahoney.
2. Ask for the resignation of Matthew Clark.
3. Clean house in the seminaries and "Catholic" universities.
22 posted on 08/25/2003 4:22:34 PM PDT by RaginCajunTrad (ask not what your government can do for you; ask your government not to do anything to you)
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To: boromeo
I've got one:

Excellencies, why does the USCCB have a totally separate fund-raising unit from the rest of the dioceses. I mean, so the USCCB can have it's own pot of $$$$ that seems to just diappear into thin air. AND please, publish a list of the donors who contribute more than $10,000. (that should be an interesting list)
23 posted on 08/25/2003 4:38:41 PM PDT by Desdemona
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To: LadyDoc
5) ask them to correct the nuns (like the Erie Benedictines)...

...And tell them to put their habits back on.

My Trad priest calls a nun without a habit a "spiritual nudist." LOL.

24 posted on 08/25/2003 4:52:09 PM PDT by Possenti
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To: boromeo
I have another one:

Why is it, that people who spend countless hours perfecting art such as music, sculpture, painting, etc., in the great tradition (unparalled anywhere) of giving voice and form to God's glory and greatness are not commissioned to employ their talents to encourage and feed the souls of God's people here on earth.

Oops, forgot who the target was.

Why is the music and art so bad and why is this allowed to continue?
25 posted on 08/25/2003 4:54:04 PM PDT by Desdemona
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To: boromeo
what is being done about the growing gulf between traditional Catholics and so-called "neo" Catholics;

The question should really be addressed to Al Matt at The Wanderer.

26 posted on 08/25/2003 4:59:07 PM PDT by Dajjal
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To: LadyDoc
Yeah. What you said in #6.
27 posted on 08/25/2003 5:27:02 PM PDT by dsc
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To: boromeo
why aren't some of the localities following the new GIRM?

And what are you doing to remedy that situation?
Unannounced visits?
Sactions? Removals?
Stern Warnings?
Educating the People of the Church on what a proper Mass Rite really is?
28 posted on 08/25/2003 5:34:51 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: LadyDoc
Good stuff there!
29 posted on 08/25/2003 5:35:35 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: RaginCajunTrad
Excellent suggestions!
30 posted on 08/25/2003 5:37:18 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: boromeo; *Catholic_list; father_elijah; nickcarraway; SMEDLEYBUTLER; Siobhan; Lady In Blue; ...
Catholic Discussion Ping!

Please notify me via Freepmail if you would like to be added to or removed from the Catholic Discussion Ping list.

31 posted on 08/25/2003 5:39:53 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: RaginCajunTrad
Ask for the resignation of Matthew Clark.

You forgot his fellow seminarian and my bishop, Howard Hubbard. After Boston, the Diocese of Albany must have the 2nd greatest number of sexual abuse lawsuits, all under Hubbard's watch.

32 posted on 08/25/2003 5:52:50 PM PDT by NYer (Laudate Dominum)
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To: boromeo
1) What concrete steps will you (the USCCB) take to determine why Catholic men are not entering the seminaries in sufficient numbers to replace those priests who are retiring? Determine why they're not attracted to the priesthood. The answers will lead you to the solutions.

2) What concrete steps will you (the USCCB) take to evangelize the Catholic faithful? The vast majority of Catholics are unchurched; they approach the Catholic community for the sacramental moments (baptism, first Eucharist, confirmation, matrimony), but do not participate on a weekly or even a monthly basis.

3) What concrete steps will you (the USCCB) take to revitalize the prayer life of the clergy, so that they can truly be the inspiration to their people that their people are hungering for?

4) What concrete steps will you (the USCCB) take to improve homiletics training in the seminaries, and insist on an ongoing program of continuing development of public speaking skills? This goes hand-in-hand with the vital prayer life (in #3), but a prayerful priest without the ability to connect with the congregation will not be a confident preacher.

5)Finally, can you guarantee that the accountability standards put in place to deal with clerical sexual abuse will remain? And, will you broaden those standards to encompass diocesan and parish finances, and decisions made by bishops and priests that are not matters of faith and morals?

33 posted on 08/25/2003 6:04:13 PM PDT by sinkspur (God's law is written on men's hearts, not a stone monument.)
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To: LadyDoc
Yes, what you said. Great ideas!

Also:

1. Confession. At least monthly. Tell your priests to spread the word and expect it and let them know you will be checking.

2. And instruct your priests that they all must,just once in a while,refuse communion to people they haven't seen in confession in more than a year. Or at least asking them confidentially. That goes doubly for non-Catholics receiving Communion. Worry less about Ecumenism and how local protestant pastors will feel, and more about the spiritual welfare of your parishioners.

3. And why aren't you instructing your Catholic schools to spend more time on Mass and Confession and Saints and tradition, not necessarily at the expense of Dr. Seuss day and Earth day (ugghhh)and other new additions. Catholicism should not be squeezed out of Catholic schools to make room for even more stuff, stuff parents can do at home with their kids. Tell the parents that too.

4. Remember the Rosary? Why aren't you telling them to start Rosary prayers after Masses. And other devotions. Stress to the priests the importance of these devotions and how they and you can lead by example. Little by little others will join in. Instruct adults who may have forgotten.

And Parishioners can follow these rules, too, they may just need to be reminded by their Bishop and Priests.

Amen on the female Mass assistants. I have remarked on the 'all female' Mass, except the Priest, so far, on another thread.

LadyDoc, I live in Benedictine central, the Erie Diocese, and I see daily their errors and how it affects parishioners so that they lose their faith and get others to follow. 'It's easier', is their mantra. Some parishioners stop practicing any faith altogether.

34 posted on 08/25/2003 6:11:43 PM PDT by fortunecookie (longtime lurker and new poster)
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To: fortunecookie
And instruct your priests that they all must,just once in a while,refuse communion to people they haven't seen in confession in more than a year.

This is a laughable suggestion. with all due respect. In a 7,000 family parish, do you expect two priests to know who has, and who hasn't, gone to confession?

Even trad priests couldn't be expected to keep up with the confessional habits of their congregation.

35 posted on 08/25/2003 6:20:51 PM PDT by sinkspur (God's law is written on men's hearts, not a stone monument.)
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To: old and tired
Why is Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament not mandatory in every parish across the country?

We have it on First Fridays, but requiring PERPETUAL adoration won't work, at least in our parish.

We tried it for a week, three years ago, and the insurance salesman just happened by when the Church was open and unattended for TWO HOURS.

He told the pastor, in no uncertain terms, that our premiums would increase 30% if the Church was open 24/7.

36 posted on 08/25/2003 6:24:07 PM PDT by sinkspur (God's law is written on men's hearts, not a stone monument.)
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To: boromeo
Ask them why concerned lay people are extremely conversant with new encyclicals the minute they are published, yet 98% of the priests have no clue as to what this pope has added to magisterial teaching (save for bitching about sexism and sex).
37 posted on 08/25/2003 6:28:49 PM PDT by Notwithstanding
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To: boromeo
Ask them why concerned lay people are extremely conversant with new encyclicals the minute they are published, yet 98% of the priests have no clue as to what this pope has added to magisterial teaching (save for the priests bitching about the popes sexism and bad attitude about sex).
38 posted on 08/25/2003 6:29:39 PM PDT by Notwithstanding
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To: boromeo; GatorGirl; maryz; *Catholic_list; afraidfortherepublic; Antoninus; Aquinasfan; Askel5; ...
Will you tender your resignations en masse to His Holiness for the good of the Church?
39 posted on 08/25/2003 6:29:45 PM PDT by narses ("The do-it-yourself Mass is ended. Go in peace" Francis Carindal Arinze of Nigeria)
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To: sinkspur
LOL, so the issue is money. The MoneyChangers have taken over the Temple again.
40 posted on 08/25/2003 6:31:03 PM PDT by narses ("The do-it-yourself Mass is ended. Go in peace" Francis Carindal Arinze of Nigeria)
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To: sinkspur; fortunecookie
**This is a laughable suggestion.**

It's not laughable. I wish, for example, pro-abortion, publicly sinning politicians would be denied communion. But I don't think most pastors really know whether or not their congregation confesses. I have not gone to my own parish for confession, ever, in my whole adult life. As far as my pastor knows, I've never confessed a sin in all my years there.

And I go to confession weekly, believe me, I need it.
41 posted on 08/25/2003 6:32:52 PM PDT by old and tired
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To: boromeo
Great thread!

I've got a couple of questions:

1) Why the continued animosity toward traditional Catholics and the "wide and generous" offering of the Latin Indult?

2) What will you do to stem the tide of the feminization of the Mass (Altar girls, nine bazillion EEMs on the altar, and the odious liturgical dance craze)?

3) Why has kneeling for Communion become verboten? Why was it ever changed in the first place? Same goes for Communion in the hand.

4) Why has church architecture taken a turn for the worse (doesn't seem possible, but it is) and why does my church look like the Brady's TV room?

5) Why are the Catholic schools employing the very same "self-esteem-boosting" methods that have utterly ruined the public schools? Many dioceses are doing away with traditional marks and grading in favor of rubrics and grade inflation.

6) Why does my local diocese preach to me about badgering our politicians to institute a "living wage," (in the NY/Metro area that translates to about $12/hr) but still has the nerve to pay its school employees (lunchroom, etc.) a measly $7.00/hour?

7) What does the Church intend to do about blatantly pro-abortion politicians? Why are bishops allowed to host campaign fund-raisers for these self-same politicians on church property?

8) What is the Church going to do to clean up the seminaries and make them more palatable to young men who wish to enter the priesthood?

9) What rocket scientist decided that "On Eagle's Wings" should be sung at nearly every Mass? Yeech! (Sorry...that wasn't very charitable of me, was it?)

And on a personal note:

10) When will the Catholic school system do something about the deplorable lack of schools for children with learning disorders? There is NOT ONE SINGLE school in the (very wealthy) Diocese of Rockville Centre (Long Island, NY) that would allow Catholic families to secure Catholic educations for their learning disabled kids.

That's about it for now. I hope somebody sees these lists and does something about them.

Regards,
42 posted on 08/25/2003 6:33:58 PM PDT by VermiciousKnid
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To: VermiciousKnid

43 posted on 08/25/2003 6:36:14 PM PDT by narses ("The do-it-yourself Mass is ended. Go in peace" Francis Carindal Arinze of Nigeria)
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To: old and tired; fortunecookie
But I don't think most pastors really know whether or not their congregation confesses. I have not gone to my own parish for confession, ever, in my whole adult life. As far as my pastor knows, I've never confessed a sin in all my years there.

Why would you go to a parish where you don't feel comfortable enough with the clergy to confess to them?

Are you an axe murderer or something? (Kidding)

You realize, of course, that in fortunecookie's world, your pastor would be justified in refusing you the Eucharist.

44 posted on 08/25/2003 6:40:52 PM PDT by sinkspur (God's law is written on men's hearts, not a stone monument.)
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To: sinkspur; old and tired
But I don't think most pastors really know whether or not their congregation confesses.

That's true, but not my point. If a church has just a few hours of confession a month (not including private confessions) and few people come to the confessions week after week, I know that our Pastor must wonder. It's a point one of our pastors brought up. And he asked regularly. And reminded everyone to go.

You realize, of course, that in fortunecookie's world, your pastor would be justified in refusing you the Eucharist.

I thought you might like that one. In my world, I have been seen known non-Catholics receive Communion at Ecumenical prayer services. I know from our parish council and music ministry that our current pastor laments regularly about this and the small turnout at confession. It happens more often than you think.

I'm sure most Priests shy away from refusing because they don't want to be wrong. Some just don't want to be 'judgemental'.

45 posted on 08/25/2003 6:54:02 PM PDT by fortunecookie (longtime lurker and new poster)
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To: Salvation
I am hoping to see the tabernacle back behind the altar, where adoration may be done respectfully, and with reverence.

All too often the tabernacle has been removed from the altar to other places in the church.

46 posted on 08/25/2003 6:54:17 PM PDT by Northern Yankee (Freedom.... needs a soldier !)
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To: VermiciousKnid
"Why has kneeling for Communion become verboten?"

I wonder about that also. Who came up with the bright idea that falling on your knees in the presence of Christ is no longer considered an appropriate posture? Yes,I know, I've heard the reason about being "resurrection people." But kneeling has been a long standing tradition. Why did the liturgists and whoever else forced the standing issue find kneeling to be such a problem?
47 posted on 08/25/2003 6:56:31 PM PDT by k omalley
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To: sinkspur
Even trad priests couldn't be expected to keep up with the confessional habits of their congregation.

True in large parishes. But in smaller ones like mine? My point is they used to ask. They stressed confession. Think about how many people go to communion and how many abstain from communion. In many places, it's almost everyone. Now think about how many people go to confession. Christmas and Easter aside, which covers a lot of them, there is still an imbalance. What?, are we suddenly all saints? Ask yourself or someone who goes once a month. Most pastors will admit there is an imbalance and admit they hope and pray for their parishioners.

48 posted on 08/25/2003 6:59:44 PM PDT by fortunecookie (longtime lurker and new poster)
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To: fortunecookie
I'm sure most Priests shy away from refusing because they don't want to be wrong. Some just don't want to be 'judgemental'.

I distribute the Eucharist every week. People are just a blur. I'm trying to pay attention to children coming up for blessings, older folks who need some assistance, whether a communicant wants to receive on the tongue or the hand......

Priests and deacons distributing the Eucharist at six Sunday Masses with 1000 communicants are just not paying attention who comes up. They really aren't. It's almost mechanical.

49 posted on 08/25/2003 7:03:31 PM PDT by sinkspur (God's law is written on men's hearts, not a stone monument.)
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To: Salvation
Bump.
50 posted on 08/25/2003 7:04:52 PM PDT by fatima (Jim,Karen,We are so proud of you.Thank you for all you do for our country.4th ID)
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