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U.S. Priests and seminarians survey: more vocations in orthodox dioceses
AD 2000 ^ | August 1998

Posted on 09/07/2003 6:40:59 AM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker

Reprinted from AD2000 Vol 11 No 7 (August 1998), p. 12

U.S. Priests and seminarians survey: more vocations in orthodox dioceses

A comparative analysis of different 'styles’ of US dioceses was recently undertaken by Human Life International (HLI). The survey sought to compare the numbers of priests and seminarians in dioceses broadly typed as "orthodox" and "progressive".

For the purposes of its study HLI defined an "orthodox" diocese as one that had exhibited a "general predisposition of fidelity towards the Magisterium since Vatican II."

The term "progressive" was applied to a diocese exhibiting "a general predisposition towards liberal activism and systematic toleration towards dissent from the magisterium since Vatican II".

In the United States, with its large number of dioceses, the contrasts between those at each end of the theological/liturgical spectrum have tended to be more obvious than in Australia.

One might have predicted at the outset that dioceses where, in general, the sacred character of the ordained priesthood is more emphasised, liturgies are celebrated reverently according to the Church’s rubrics and doctrinal orthodoxy is insisted upon and promoted, would attract more recruits - e.g., Lincoln, Nebraska, or Arlington, Virginia. This, in fact, proved to be the case.

The HLI calculations were based on figures from P.J. Kenedy & Sons’ Official Catholic Directories, 1956 to 1997 editions, and editions of the Vatican Secretary of State Statistical Yearbook of the Church for the years 1975, 1981, 1987 and 1993.

The study examined two clusters of 15 dioceses over the period 1955 to 1996. One cluster consisted of 15 dioceses that have had a generally orthodox tradition since 1955 (and especially since Vatican II); the other consisted of 15 dioceses that have had a generally progressive tradition over the same period.

HLI found the following 15 dioceses to be in the "orthodox" category: Amarillo, Texas; Arlington, Virginia; Atlanta, Georgia; Baltimore, Maryland; Corpus Christi, Texas; Denver, Colorado; Fargo, North Dakota; Fort Wayne-South Bend, Indiana; Lincoln and Omaha, Nebraska; Peoria, Illinois; Philadelphia, Pennsylvania; Sioux Falls, South Dakota; Steubenville, Ohio; and Wichita, Kansas.

The following 15 dioceses were considered to be in the "progressive" category: Chicago, Illinois; Detroit and Grand Rapids, Michigan; Los Angeles, California; Madison and Milwaukee, Wisconsin; New Ulm, Minnesota; Phoenix, Arizona; Portland, Maine; Rockville Centre, New York; San Bernadino, San Diego and San Francisco, California; Seattle, Washington; and Tucson, Arizona.

HLI conceded that the terms "orthodox" and "progressive" were "necessarily subjective", but explained that the 15 dioceses "of each persuasion" were selected "after an extensive review of articles carried in four publications over the past 30 years: National Catholic Reporter, National Catholic Register, Commonweal and The Wanderer.

A list of these dioceses was then submitted to a number of individuals "with extensive knowledge of the history of the American Catholic Church for confirmation and correction."

Two patterns were apparent from the statistics:

1. There are currently nearly twice as many diocesan priests per million active (or practising) Catholics in orthodox dioceses as there are in progressive dioceses (2,057 vs. 1,075); and

2.

The proportion of diocesan priests in orthodox dioceses has remained steady, while the number of diocesan priests in progressive dioceses has been continually declining for four decades. In orthodox dioceses, there were 1,830 diocesan priests per million active Catholics in 1956, and 12 percent more (2,057) in 1996.

In progressive dioceses, there were 1,290 diocesan priests per million active Catholics in 1956, and 1,075 in 1996, a 17 percent decrease.

A second statistical analysis looked at the numbers of diocesan priests ordained in the period 1986 to 1996.

Two patterns were evident from this:

1. There are currently nearly five times as many ordinations of diocesan priests per million active Catholics in orthodox dioceses as there are in progressive dioceses (53 vs. 11); and

2. The rate of ordinations of diocesan priests in orthodox dioceses shows a strong upward trend, while the rate in progressive dioceses, relatively low four decades ago, continues to decline. In orthodox dioceses, there were 34 ordinations of diocesan priests per million active Catholics in 1986, and 53 in 1996 - an increase of more than 50 percent. In progressive dioceses, the rate was 16 in 1986, and only 11 in 1996 - a one-third decrease.

With acknowledgement to HLI.

Reprinted from AD2000 Vol 11 No 7 (August 1998), p. 12


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Ministry/Outreach; Moral Issues
KEYWORDS: catholiclist; celibacy; dioceses; ordinations; orthodox; orthodoxdioceses; priests; progressive; seminarians; vocations
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To: Rum Tum Tugger
As I implied above, the most valid conclusion that this study might yield is that whether a Diocese is progressive or orthodox depends on whether the area in which the Diocese is located is socially and politically progressive or orthodox.

Oh dang! More twists and turns! My head is spinning.

I reject your conclusion! ;-)

Seriously, shouldn't Catholicism, which is neither politically progressive or conservative as taught by the Magisterium, transcend a particular political climate? If it is taught according to the catechism, tradition and Magisterium, that is.

But you have a good point because priests coming out of seminaries in liberal areas were probably taught by liberal theologians who in turn either were taught in those same seminaries or colleges that their teachers came out of. It's kind of like an endless circle or a dog chasing his tail.

In the more liberal areas, a lot of the teaching centers on the parish/Church being primarily a social justice organization (which Cardinal Ratzinger sees as the greatest danger to the Faith) and I find this over and over again in priests and particularly nuns. The focus is on love and has an almost socialistic flavor.

Which is why orthodoxy works... by adhering to the Magisterium, we are able to overcome the temptation to interject political opinion.

21 posted on 09/07/2003 11:15:47 AM PDT by american colleen
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To: Rum Tum Tugger
You bring up a many good points to consider. What I am constantly confounded with is that there appears to be a problem to solve (lack of vocations) and ample variance occuring (this article, for instance, can easily find dioceses where vocations are not a problem) yet there does not seem to be any concerted effort to explain the variance.
22 posted on 09/07/2003 11:17:29 AM PDT by cebadams (much better than ezra)
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To: cebadams
...yet there does not seem to be any concerted effort to explain the variance.

A "fruit" of the USCCB? To discuss this issue publicly or seriously would be pointing fingers at the dioceses that have a dearth of vocations and to give a thumbs up to a diocese that has plenty of vocations. And Bruskewicz's diocese is cited most often as having plenty of vocations... but he is perceived as a bishop who rules with an iron fist, doesn't listen to "other voices" (he's not inclusive not pc!) and who is medievel in the words of my 68 year old parish priest.

The USCCB and "unity" keeps everything at the same level by not tackling the important issues with serious and soul-searching and public discussion. And it seems (to me) that the only "mavericks" who stand out a bit are the progressive ones.

23 posted on 09/07/2003 11:28:06 AM PDT by american colleen
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To: Akron Al; Alberta's Child; Aloysius; Andrew65; AniGrrl; Antoninus; As you well know...; BBarcaro; ..
Vocations PING
24 posted on 09/07/2003 12:03:36 PM PDT by Loyalist
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To: dangus
The Annual Catholic Directory. Look for it in larger libraries, esepcially at seminaries and universities.
25 posted on 09/07/2003 1:16:07 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: american colleen; ThomasMore
What you write is correct. The Philadelphia (St. Charles Borromeo) and Baltimore (Mt. St. Michael) seminaries are full, not just with local men, and men sent from other diocese, but men who have left places like Rockville Circus to study for a real Catholic Diocese.

Orthodoxy attracts, and heterodoxy repels.

The number of vocations probably does not differ that greatly, although individual parishes can be exceptions, as ThomasMore can tell you (and I can tell you too - the two indult parishes I've belonged to - St. Boniface in Pittsburgh and Mater Ecclesiae in Berlin, NJ both have 3 or 4 men in the seminary).
26 posted on 09/07/2003 1:21:00 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: cebadams; american colleen
Yes, they become Priests in the diocese they study for. No, they would not have become priests otherwise.
27 posted on 09/07/2003 1:22:07 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: Rum Tum Tugger
The progressive Dioceses are almost all, if not all, located in areas that are socially and politically liberal. The orthodox Diocese are almost all, if not all, located in areas that are socially and politically conservative.

That's not true as a generalization. Philadelphia, Baltimore, and Atlanta are not particularly conservative, and Tuscon, San Diego, Phoenix, New Ulm, Portland, and San Bernardino are not particularly liberal. The sample is good and representative.

28 posted on 09/07/2003 1:25:12 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
Do you have to get a dispensation or something similar from your bishop in order to attend a seminary in another diocese?

And if so, wouldn't the would be seminarian have to explain why he doesn't want to go to the local seminary and is choosing to go elsewhere?

Which might explain the underlying animosity directed at a bishop like Bruskewicz?

29 posted on 09/07/2003 1:26:48 PM PDT by american colleen
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
Yes, they become Priests in the diocese they study for.

Maybe all the more reason to consolidate seminaries (makind them less locally bound) and have them run by bishops with a proven track record.

30 posted on 09/07/2003 1:29:27 PM PDT by american colleen
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To: St.Chuck
The bishops don't care. They are part of the problem.
31 posted on 09/07/2003 2:22:21 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: Hermann the Cherusker

I good contrast is between Kansas City MO diocese and the Kansas City KS Archdiocese, the KC Kansas Archdiocese has a far higher vocation rate than the KO MO diocese. The difference, KC MO has a fairly liberal Bishop.
32 posted on 09/07/2003 4:30:10 PM PDT by JNB (I am a Catholic FIRST)
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To: american colleen
"....have them run by bishops with a proven track record"

If they were consolidated, I'm afraid that the USCCB would have liberals running them (into the ground) in no time at all.
Better that good orthodox bishops have control of their own seminaries.
33 posted on 09/07/2003 4:45:00 PM PDT by rogator
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To: cebadams
What I would like to see is whether a corelation exists between seminaries requiring their students to take Latin as required by Canon Law and ordinations.
I would bet that the heterodox dioceses with fewer ordinands do not require this aspect of Canon Law to be followed.
34 posted on 09/07/2003 4:51:16 PM PDT by rogator
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
Priests Down, Seminarians Up

Seminary Springtime: Father Darrin Connall s Big Success

In Seminaries, New Ways for a New Generation

35 posted on 09/07/2003 4:51:51 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: american colleen
Grant us more "medievel" prelates Oh Lord, grant us many more!
36 posted on 09/07/2003 4:59:39 PM PDT by narses ("The do-it-yourself Mass is ended. Go in peace" Francis Carindal Arinze of Nigeria)
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To: rogator
Right. Good point. I guess we are better off keeping it the way it is rather than risk running the few good ones into the ground. This way, when a good bishop gets moved around, he can start to clean up the new seminary and leave behind an old successful seminary with good people on board.

The USCCB just goes up my keister sideways.

37 posted on 09/07/2003 5:38:33 PM PDT by american colleen
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To: narses
I agree with you, of course. But doesn't it seem like Bruskewicz in particular is sort of stuck in neutral mode right now? It seems if the bishop tones down his orthodoxy and hones his interpersonal skills (what is that Italian word "aggre...."?) then they move along and maybe have more influence - like Cardinal George. Bruskewicz just seems to tick off so many people because he says exactly what he thinks. I love that, though. You always know exactly where he stands.
38 posted on 09/07/2003 5:41:36 PM PDT by american colleen
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To: american colleen
The truth often hurts. What the Church needs, what the world needs is ORTHODOXY not politically correct pap. Either the Truth resides in the Church and we believe that it does, or it is all a sad game. If the hierarchs have lost the faith, and I believe to many have, then they are enemies of the Truth. They are living a lie.
39 posted on 09/07/2003 6:30:56 PM PDT by narses ("The do-it-yourself Mass is ended. Go in peace" Francis Carindal Arinze of Nigeria)
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To: St.Chuck
For those of us who live in more "progressive" doiceses, where parishes are being closed and the priest shortage is widely lamented, this report might prove instructive were the bishop to see it.

Doubtful. Those bishops in dioceses with vocations "crises" know what they're doing--They have absolutely no interest in increasing vocations.
40 posted on 09/07/2003 6:36:13 PM PDT by Antoninus (In hoc signo, vinces †)
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