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Right-to-carry guns is proven way to reduce the crime rate
theoaklandpress.com ^ | Mar 24, 2004 | NEIL MUNRO

Posted on 03/24/2004 10:06:10 AM PST by B4Ranch

Right-to-carry guns is proven way to reduce the crime rate

Web-posted Mar 24, 2004

Some Daily Oakland Press readers had mixed emotions last week when we reported a Farmington Hills woman had frightened away would-be robbers because she was legally carrying a gun. They praised us for printing the story, but wished we'd put it on the front page.

It may be the first such local story we've printed or known of - and that was because the chief of police there wisely brought it to public attention.

The successful threat of a weapon in the hands of a potential crime victim is an event that rarely becomes public.

This surely was not the only such happy ending since Michigan residents were permitted by the state Legislature to exercise a constitutional right to keep and bear arms about five years ago.

Before the law was passed people outside the law enforcement community rarely were granted concealed weapons permits. The main qualification of too many who did get them was political clout of some kind.

Regular people typically didn't bother to apply.

Those in opposition feared we'd set off a bloodbath. Their theory was we'd all become armed and we'd start shooting each other at the slightest provocation.

We even had made some schools "gun-free zones," thus telling violent criminals they're safe. Many school massacres most likely could have been prevented or stopped had someone on the premises been armed.

Guns in the house are not necessarily a great hazard, either. National data at the time of the debate showed just 44 gun-related deaths at home of children under 10.

You can bet opponents of the change would be shouting "I told you so" if it had been followed by so much as an upward blip in handguns involved in crimes, household accidents, domestic assaults and so forth - all the things that were confidently predicted.

One of the reasons nothing changed is because the vast majority of those who were granted licenses under the new law already owned the guns and had been carrying them as they saw fit. They just wanted to be able to go about their business without being lawbreakers.

But elsewhere, widely publicized liberalization of so-called right-to-carry laws actually has been linked to a reduced crime rate. Would-be felons apparently think twice before taking somebody on.

Florida had passed a similar law before Michigan acted and noted a sudden increase in crimes against tourists - people driving cars with rental-company decals or out-of-state license plates.

The assumption is the bad guys figured those drivers would be much less likely to be armed and dangerous than a Floridian.

In Great Britain, the crime rate increased over the decades, tracking right along with a steady crackdown on the citizen ownership and carrying of weapons.

Farmington Hills Police Chief William Dwyer has done us all a favor by reminding us that the right-to-carry law is there and can protect us. And he is reminding would-be criminals of the same thing.

NEIL MUNRO


TOPICS: General Discussion
KEYWORDS: bang; banglist; guncontrol; michigan; righttocarry

1 posted on 03/24/2004 10:06:11 AM PST by B4Ranch
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To: Lazamataz; *bang_list; fourdeuce82d; Travis McGee; Joe Brower; archy; AAABEST; wku man; SLB


2 posted on 03/24/2004 10:08:55 AM PST by B4Ranch (" A nation that cannot control it's borders is not a nation" President Reagan)
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To: glock rocks; Squantos
PING
3 posted on 03/24/2004 10:38:22 AM PST by B4Ranch (" A nation that cannot control it's borders is not a nation" President Reagan)
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To: B4Ranch; Squantos; Larry Lucido
Farmington Hills Police Chief William Dwyer has done us all a favor by reminding us that the right-to-carry law is there and can protect us.

Pretty cool for an admin to retain his street smarts.

bump!

4 posted on 03/24/2004 11:04:14 AM PST by glock rocks (molon labe)
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To: glock rocks
The Governor took his name off the list for Attorney General, you can bet one of the kids on that.
5 posted on 03/24/2004 11:08:39 AM PST by B4Ranch (" A nation that cannot control it's borders is not a nation" President Reagan)
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To: AAABEST; wku man; SLB; Travis McGee; Squantos; harpseal; Shooter 2.5; The Old Hoosier; xrp; ...
B4Ranch ping! Click the Gadsden flag for pro-gun resources!
6 posted on 03/24/2004 11:32:04 AM PST by Joe Brower (The Constitution defines Conservatism.)
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To: Joe Brower
It has done that here in Oregon!

No Guns ~ No Rights!
7 posted on 03/24/2004 12:21:16 PM PST by blackie (Be Well~Be Armed~Be Safe~Molon Labe!)
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To: glock rocks
That's a significant admission on the part of Chief Dwyer. He previously headed the Michigan chief's association, which opposed "shall-issue." Dwyer is known to be a straight shooter, however (no pun intended), and it's good to see him acknowledge the value of having the intended victim in this case armed.
8 posted on 03/24/2004 12:35:45 PM PST by Larry Lucido
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To: Joe Brower
AAABEST; wku man; SLB; Travis McGee; Squantos; harpseal; Shooter 2.5; The Old Hoosier; xrp; ...

I almost got choked up seeing harpseal still on your ping list. Please leave him on, so he knows he's not forgotten.

9 posted on 03/24/2004 12:37:34 PM PST by Larry Lucido
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To: Larry Lucido
"I almost got choked up seeing harpseal still on your ping list. Please leave him on, so he knows he's not forgotten."

There you go.

Click the Gadsden flag for pro-gun resources!

10 posted on 03/24/2004 12:40:53 PM PST by Joe Brower (The Constitution defines Conservatism.)
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To: B4Ranch
Somebody in Michigan "gets it".
11 posted on 03/24/2004 1:03:23 PM PST by Gritty ("radical Islam's war is not about what America has done, but about what America is"-David Horowitz)
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To: B4Ranch
"Florida had passed a similar law before Michigan acted and noted a sudden increase in crimes against tourists - people driving cars with rental-company decals or out-of-state license plates."

Then Florida passed a number of interstate compacts which allow reciprocity with other states and CCW permits. Suddenly a Georgia tag didn't guarantee an unarmed and helpless tourist. To date, I can travel from my home in Miami, FL to almost anywhere south of the Mason-Dixon Line and be lawfully armed. I'm not sure about South Carolina, however. A couple of years ago we travelled to Austin Texas and back to pick up our new pup. I was armed the whole way and never felt safer.

12 posted on 03/24/2004 1:24:41 PM PST by ExSoldier (When the going gets tough, the tough go cyclic.)
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To: B4Ranch
It may be the first such local story we've printed or known of - and that was because the chief of police there wisely brought it to public attention.

Wouldn't it be nice if such positive uses of a gun were given more press? We ought to require papers to validate stories such as this and then run it somewhere on either the front or back of every paper in town.

Where do they (news outlets) get the impression that part of their mission is to keep people in the dark? I thought their purpose was to shed light on events, both good and bad.

When guns are put to good use and it's not reported, it is a violation of the trust we hold in them and perhaps, by pointing this out, they'll see things differently in the future. Otherwise, they remain nothing more than an agenda driven rag or television show whose credibility is their biggest liability.

Sales of papers down? Ratings on your "TheNewsComesFirst" show down? People want news, raw and accurate--not agenda driven, PC crap. How refreshing it would be to tune into a news show that actually put the 'news first'.

13 posted on 03/24/2004 3:22:21 PM PST by budwiesest (How the h*ll are you supposed to run a country with so many individualists?)
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To: budwiesest
This is an email I sent to Ralph Weller of GunNewsDaily.com

Ralph,

When are you and the rest of the good journalists going to start including the words "United Nations" and "New World Order" in your pieces about gun control? I continually ask myself, "Do they even know where the push is coming from? Do they know who is at the top of the push? Why are they afraid of putting out all the facts?"

I'd appreciate a long answer if you have the time. Tell me what is going on in your industry and why those words are forbidden by the Chief Editor of Gun News Daily, the Owners or whomever has the last word on whether you'll have a job tomorrow should you tell the whole story.

Until now I have thought that someone in probably, the advertising department, and probably a strong Democrat doesn't want to see an anti-UN statement. Would this cause a cash flow problem? Is someone afraid of outside powers should you bring out the facts or is their a concern that gun owners aren't sophisticated enough to handle an anti UN sentence.

Sincerely,
xxxxx xxxxx

NO REPLY!

14 posted on 03/24/2004 3:37:50 PM PST by B4Ranch (" A nation that cannot control it's borders is not a nation" President Reagan)
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To: B4Ranch
No Reply? Like you said, this is what we need:
Do they know who is at the top of the push?

..a list of those at the top of the push. Put a cherry up there for me rather than a globalist. Kerry's love affair with the UN has given me enough ____________(fill in the blank, I couldn't come up with a word) to want to oppose the uniting of something when it probably shouldn't be united.

When it comes to us (US), I think we ought to just have one of those 'seeing each other' affairs with the rest of the Globe World- 'lest we lose our Vir-sovereignty.

15 posted on 03/24/2004 4:36:15 PM PST by budwiesest (If you build it, they will wonder why you built it.)
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To: budwiesest
President Bush doesn't appear to want them to leave the US either. He's promoting the loan of $1.2 billion for a new headquarters in NYC.
16 posted on 03/24/2004 5:03:55 PM PST by B4Ranch (" A nation that cannot control it's borders is not a nation" President Reagan)
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To: B4Ranch
President Bush doesn't appear to want them to leave the US either.

Might this may fall into the "keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer" category? If so, how much closer can you get?

17 posted on 03/24/2004 5:19:33 PM PST by budwiesest (Hey, this is the UN building, it can't be bugged.)
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To: B4Ranch
President Bush doesn't appear to want them to leave the US either. He's promoting the loan of $1.2 billion for a new headquarters in NYC.

Being born in upper Manhattan, now living in the Bronx, if the city gets hit with a WMD, God forbid, that might get the UN out of the US for starters.

18 posted on 03/25/2004 1:52:43 AM PST by neverdem (Xin loi min oi)
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To: Joe Brower
Thanks for the pint.
19 posted on 03/25/2004 2:17:29 AM PST by Badray (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown. RIP harpseal.)
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To: Badray
Thanks for the pint.

Well, you still owe me the pint, but thanks for the ping. ;-)

20 posted on 03/25/2004 2:22:36 AM PST by Badray (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown. RIP harpseal.)
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To: ExSoldier
I will fly to Florida this Sunday afternoon, and as soon as I pick up my luggage at the baggage carousel I will head to the men's room prior to going to the car rental counter. When I leave the men's room, I will be legally carrying.

Thanks to the fact that Florida is very gracious in issuing non-resident CCW permits, I will able to protect myself and my wife during our vacation. Thank you Floridians.
21 posted on 04/08/2004 8:23:08 AM PDT by Jerry_M (I can only say that I am a poor sinner, trusting in Christ alone for salvation. -- Gen. Robt E. Lee)
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To: Jerry_M
Be careful arming yourself while still on airport property! On the concourses it is a federal offense and I'm pretty sure something has been done about the rest of the property. Wouldn't want an overzealous cop or airport security guy to ruin your vacation. If somebody in the men's room tumbles to the fact that you're armed it could get real unpleasant. Just be careful. Remember that Florida is a "duty to notify" state if you're stopped by a LEO for any reason. Have fun. If you want an idea on where to go and what to do or what to watch out for, drop me a freepmail.
22 posted on 04/08/2004 12:32:46 PM PDT by ExSoldier (When the going gets tough, the tough go cyclic.)
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To: ExSoldier
I have made several trips out to Orlando, and once I pick up my bags there is a men's room between there and the car rental counter. I have never had a problem in the past, and don't anticipate having one this trip.
23 posted on 04/08/2004 5:52:46 PM PDT by Jerry_M (I can only say that I am a poor sinner, trusting in Christ alone for salvation. -- Gen. Robt E. Lee)
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To: Jerry_M
"I have made several trips out to Orlando..."

Silly me! Since I live in Miami Dade County, I naturally assumed that's where you were going. Duh. Orlando is different in just about every way. My daughter lives there and after her wedding in July, will continue to live there. She says she'd never come back to Miami unless it's to see us. We plan on moving out near her sometime in the next several years. Enjoy your vacation. Going to Disney? That's probably the only place in the area that is a true gun control situation and it's because the Disney Corporation all the way back to Walt Disney himself is all about globalism and NWO and an elimination of civil liberties. I haven't seen "Mickey" in years, for this reason.

24 posted on 04/08/2004 6:20:04 PM PDT by ExSoldier (When the going gets tough, the tough go cyclic.)
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To: B4Ranch
An armed society is a polite society.
25 posted on 04/21/2004 6:39:43 PM PDT by Commander8 (Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? Galatians 4:16)
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To: glock rocks
Not a lot of police chiefs these days have the moral courage that Chief Dwyer has. He should be applauded loudly.
26 posted on 04/21/2004 6:41:04 PM PDT by Commander8 (Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? Galatians 4:16)
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To: Commander8
Absolutely. check out post #8, and the profile of the poster... that's some serious applause from a former police sergeant, and a resident of the chief's state...
27 posted on 04/21/2004 6:52:33 PM PDT by glock rocks (Please pray for our patriot armed forces in harm's way - and the families awaiting their safe return)
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To: Commander8
So correct you are.
28 posted on 04/21/2004 7:12:51 PM PDT by B4Ranch ( It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong. .Voltaire)
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To: B4Ranch

Polite Society Bump


29 posted on 06/04/2004 9:57:46 PM PDT by dcwusmc ("The most dangerous man, to any government, is the man who is able to think things out for himself.)
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To: Jerry_M
re: guns on airport property in Florida:

Florida Statute 790.06 Subsection 12

790.06 (12) No license issued pursuant to this section shall authorize any person to carry a concealed weapon or firearm into any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05 [below]; any police, sheriff, or highway patrol station; any detention facility, prison, or jail; any courthouse; any courtroom, except that nothing in this section would preclude a judge from carrying a concealed weapon or determining who will carry a concealed weapon in his or her courtroom; any polling place; any meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or special district; any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof; any school, college, or professional athletic event not related to firearms; any school administration building; any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose [BARS no, Restaurants are OK]; any elementary or secondary school facility; any area vocational-technical center; any college or university facility [there is an on going debate at to what a "facility" means; a building? the lunch room? The BIG question is the parking lot, can you leave it in your car? Probably, but I don't want to be the test case!] unless the licensee is a registered student, employee, or faculty member of such college or university and the weapon is a stun gun or non-lethal electric weapon or device designed solely for defensive purposes and the weapon does not fire a dart or projectile; inside the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport [however FAA Rules say you may not have a firearm on Airport Property at all], provided that no person shall be prohibited from carrying any legal firearm into the terminal, which firearm is encased for shipment for purposes of checking such firearm as baggage to be lawfully transported on any aircraft; or any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law. [This is pretty much ANY Federal building or Federal lands, including, Indian Reservations, Military Reservations, National Parks, National Sanctuaries, etc.]



30 posted on 06/27/2004 11:04:38 AM PDT by SauronOfMordor (That which does not kill me had better be able to run away damn fast.)
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To: B4Ranch

My family has had weapons on the wall ready to grab on the run since 1648, Ipswich, Massachusetts; my GGGG*fathers' firearms used in New England Indian Wars, St. Anne's War, French and Indian War, Ft. Ticonderoga, Ft. St. Frederick, Crown Point, Battle of Bunker Hill, Saratoga II, War of 1812; from muskets and blunderbusses to Civil War rifled muskets to AK-47's captured from VC's brought home as war trophies- U.S. Constitution indubitably and irrevocably asserted AND confirmed in writing what has been common practice by the PEOPLE going into battle as irregulars or regulars for 350 years the right to bear arms, not to mention right to bear arms by my other Native American ancestors and relatives since 1763 and 1787 by English and US treaty for reservation firearm use.


31 posted on 07/02/2004 9:51:09 PM PDT by bunkerhill7 (on the wall)
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To: bunkerhill7

I suggest putting one of them on your belt.


32 posted on 07/02/2004 10:17:25 PM PDT by B4Ranch (We're going to take things away from you (guns) on behalf of the common good." Hillary 6/29/2004)
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To: B4Ranch
Gun carry laws could reduce the crime rate. But like everything else where responsibility and judgment must be a part of the right, we must issue carry licenses careful.

For example, do we want to allow "everyone" the right? Obviously not to felons, underage, mentally unfit and non citizens. But how to control who gets to exercise the right?

I suggest that in addition to the usual restrictions a means test should be given to determine if the applicant can carry a gun:

1. Must be a citizen of the United States and be able to prove it.

2. Must prove to have filed yearly income tax returns.

3. Must be a property holder or otherwise financially responsible.

4. Must prove that the applicant does not use dope or drink alcohol to excess.

5. Must make a reasonable deposit and pay a renewal fee every year.

6. Must take an approved safety training course.
33 posted on 02/24/2006 4:17:03 PM PST by R.W.Ratikal
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To: R.W.Ratikal

I'm not into controlling 'the people', so I would only require proof that you know the safety concerns and the legal consquences of shooting a person.

Do that once and then you are free to go. No annual checkups, no fees anymore, just go and be a decent (armed) citizen.


34 posted on 02/24/2006 5:04:39 PM PST by B4Ranch (No expiration date is on the Oath to protect America from all enemies, foreign and domestic.)
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